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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXII: Doan Go Breakin My Heart Edition

View Poll Results: So where do you think we go from here?
RayRay will sign a UFA quality wing in the preseason 4 2.67%
RayRay will sign a UFA grinder because thatís just how we roll 13 8.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a quality wing 19 12.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a grinder 2 1.33%
RayRay will give Adams a $11.5 million raise. 22 14.67%
RayRay will swing a trade deadline trade for a quality wing 62 41.33%
RayRay will buy himself $12 million of bling and rock this house 10 6.67%
Who gives a ****? Edward and Bella broke up, OMG 18 12.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-31-2012, 10:15 PM
  #301
PensFan68
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Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
Nobody wants 4 first line wingers. Is it too much to ask though for 2 first line wingers? When you have the 2 best centers in the world, you cater to them. You build your team
Neal and Kunitz are 2 first line wingers. Pens fans are just getting greedy. Those two plus Dupuis make great wingers for the top 6. While I agree Dupuis isn't ideal, he's been a hell of a top 6 winger for us. No team in the league has a stacked top 6 (or 5) like we do, why do some Pens fans seem to believe we deserve it because we have Sid/Geno?!?!

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07-31-2012, 10:16 PM
  #302
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It seems like an exaggeration to me.

Better:
Anaheim (Perry, Ryan)
San Jose (Marleau, Havlat)
Dallas (Eriksson, Whitney)
Vancouver (Burrows, Sedin)
Edmonton (Hall, Eberle)
Minnesota (Parise, Heatley)
Chicago (Kane, Hossa)
Carolina (Semin, Skinner)
Toronto(Kessel, Lupul)
Boston (Seguin, Lucic)
Buffalo (Pominville, Vanek)
NYR (Gaborik, Nash)
NJ (Kovalchuk, Elias)


Slightly better or close to the same:
LA (Brown, Carter)
Tampa (St. Louis, Malone/Purcell)
Winnipeg (Wheeler, Kane)
Philadelphia (Hartnell, Briere)
I was thinking of lines team's actual use but fair enough. I think they're on par with some of those or even better especially in playoff hockey but ya I guess if I can put ours together you can match other teams best wings onto the same line. so I was a little off

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07-31-2012, 10:18 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Prattio View Post
tweets comin out hes headed to Vancouver. Well ray now what?
Please post a legitimate source or don't assert things like this. Any idiot can tweet up a bunch of rumors. I don't see anything on TSN, for example. There is no legitimate news on Doan at this time.

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07-31-2012, 10:19 PM
  #304
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tweets comin out hes headed to Vancouver. Well ray now what?
Tweets only saying that he visited the Canucks, not that he's signed with them.

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07-31-2012, 10:36 PM
  #305
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The fact is, Sid and Malkin play on separate lines. You key in on one of them and make the others beat you. Obvious strategy. With Sid playing by himself, you make Dupuis beat you. Or Kunitz. Other teams will take that ALL DAY. Geno finally has Neal, and IMO, Neal was the 2nd best Penguin in that series behind Staal. Why? Because they had to cover Geno! With the Flyers, you can't key in on one. They all have the talent to beat you.

Listen.. I'm not trying to build a lineup identical to Philly.. but the fact remains they are one of the best, if not the best, in the East. You have to go through them to be the best. And right now, they are better. 7 game series against them, they will take it. And don't take this another way, I know its July 31st. I'm just saying as of right now, we have 10 million in cap space. It sucks we weren't able to make a splash. I'm not here blaming that on Shero. I want the Pens to win it all as much as anyone. But after going through years and years of Satan, Fedotenko, Sullivan, Armstrong, Hilbert, Ouellet, TK, Cooke, Poni.. I just feel this team would be just something else if we added skill to the lineup rather than grit, and hockey sense, and toughness. Let some of that slip to the third line.

IMO, our best team in the Crosby/Malkin era was the team that lost to the Wings. We had EVERYTHING that year. Hossa-Sid-Dups, Sykora-Malkin-Malone, Cooke-Staal-TK. PERFECT. That's how a team is built. That team would have won most years, they were simply a bit young to and played a disgusting Red Wings team. That series easily could have gone our way if not for the retarded goals they scored early in that series. I just want something similar to that. A little skill helping Sid and Geno.
Nobody really disagrees. Of course we all would like a stacked top 6. But at some point people have to come back down to earth and realize that there are only so many of the these coveted wingers to go around. Between the salary cap and demand amongst other teams, these guys aren't easy to get. The FA pool was weak after Parise(who we took a great shot at), so what option is left? A trade. But weakening one area to improve another is not something that Shero is fond of doing so he's not going to overpay.

I think, up until this point, Shero's philosophy has been: If we're forced to be weak in an area, better to be weak on the wings. And the truth is, being the top(center)-heavy team that we've been did kind of force us to choose a weakness. We're a month into the first offseason where we have a lot of cap space and we're free of the "three center" model. Let's be patient and see what happens. I'm pretty confident in saying that Shero isn't done.

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07-31-2012, 10:40 PM
  #306
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I have no idea if he'd be available but Bryan Little would be a great addition. Scheifele pushing for a spot next year, signing Jokinen and Burmistrov and Antropov both capable top 9 centers, maybe they'd be willing to move him.

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07-31-2012, 10:44 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Nobody really disagrees. Of course we all would like a stacked top 6. But at some point people have to come back down to earth and realize that there are only so many of the these coveted wingers to go around. Between the salary cap and demand amongst other teams, these guys aren't easy to get. The FA pool was weak after Parise(who we took a great shot at), so what option is left? A trade. But weakening one area to improve another is not something that Shero is fond of doing so he's not going to overpay.

I think, up until this point, Shero's philosophy has been: If we're forced to be weak in an area, better to be weak on the wings. And the truth is, being the top(center)-heavy team that we've been did kind of force us to choose a weakness. We're a month into the first offseason where we have a lot of cap space and we're free of the "three center" model. Let's be patient and see what happens. I'm pretty confident in saying that Shero isn't done.
QF ****in T.

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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I have no idea if he'd be available but Bryan Little would be a great addition. Scheifele pushing for a spot next year, signing Jokinen and Burmistrov and Antropov both capable top 9 centers, maybe they'd be willing to move him.
I'd sure like him.

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07-31-2012, 11:17 PM
  #308
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QF ****in T.



I'd sure like him.
little is a nice player...but he's a little little

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Old
07-31-2012, 11:30 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by PensFan68 View Post
Neal and Kunitz are 2 first line wingers. Pens fans are just getting greedy. Those two plus Dupuis make great wingers for the top 6. While I agree Dupuis isn't ideal, he's been a hell of a top 6 winger for us. No team in the league has a stacked top 6 (or 5) like we do, why do some Pens fans seem to believe we deserve it because we have Sid/Geno?!?!
Kunitz is not a 1st line winger. He's a top 6 player. Is it really asking too much to want 5-6 top 6 forwards? Or even 4 with 2 nice complimentary players? We have 2 elite centers, and 2 top 6 wingers, then crap to go with them (Duper is okay, but not when the other winger is Kunitz). Asking for other top 6 players isn't being greedy.

We have almost zero forward depth. Honestly I'd be happy with a couple Kulemin's or other rejects who have the skill to play a top 6 role. Hell I'd even look at getting one of Connolly, Lombardi or MacA if it didn't cost an arm and a leg (which knowing BB it likely would). We have the cap space, and any of them would be an improvement over what we currently have (assuming Tangradi gets a shot and doesn't work).

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07-31-2012, 11:45 PM
  #310
Grant
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Kunitz is not a 1st line winger. He's a top 6 player. Is it really asking too much to want 5-6 top 6 forwards? Or even 4 with 2 nice complimentary players? We have 2 elite centers, and 2 top 6 wingers, then crap to go with them (Duper is okay, but not when the other winger is Kunitz). Asking for other top 6 players isn't being greedy.

We have almost zero forward depth. Honestly I'd be happy with a couple Kulemin's or other rejects who have the skill to play a top 6 role. Hell I'd even look at getting one of Connolly, Lombardi or MacA if it didn't cost an arm and a leg (which knowing BB it likely would). We have the cap space, and any of them would be an improvement over what we currently have (assuming Tangradi gets a shot and doesn't work).
Funny you say that because I was just coming to ask if the Penguins were still wanting a winger and if you would want him haha. Wasn't sure if something around MacArthur for Martin would be possible. I say Martin because I'm not sure if you still were wanting to move him to make room for a prospect even though Michalek is already gone. If a defenseman would have to come back in the trade as well though, then I'm not sure if we would be of much help.

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07-31-2012, 11:51 PM
  #311
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Funny you say that because I was just coming to ask if the Penguins were still wanting a winger and if you would want him haha. Wasn't sure if something around MacArthur for Martin would be possible. I say Martin because I'm not sure if you still were wanting to move him to make room for a prospect even though Michalek is already gone. If a defenseman would have to come back in the trade as well though, then I'm not sure if we would be of much help.
Right now if we move Martin we'd need to replace him with someone. We aren't going into the season defaulting two D spots to rookies without them at least earning it. Especially since Niskanen isn't even a proven top 4 D-man. Right now we only have 3 guys with proven top 4 ability.

Mid-season though, I think it's very possible one of Martin or Niskanen gets moved. It would require other guys to be playing well enough to replace him OR for the defense to be performing poorly enough to justify a shake-up with Shero replacing him with a separate trade.

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07-31-2012, 11:58 PM
  #312
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Right now if we move Martin we'd need to replace him with someone. We aren't going into the season defaulting two D spots to rookies without them at least earning it. Especially since Niskanen isn't even a proven top 4 D-man. Right now we only have 3 guys with proven top 4 ability.

Mid-season though, I think it's very possible one of Martin or Niskanen gets moved. It would require other guys to be playing well enough to replace him OR for the defense to be performing poorly enough to justify a shake-up with Shero replacing him with a separate trade.
Alright, that's what I was thinking but wasn't sure of. The defensemen in the trade we can most easily add are Komi (who I imagine you don't want for obvious reason) and Franson (who I doubt is able to play top 4 effectively enough for you to want). Liles would be the only other guy who I think would maybe interest Pittsburgh that Toronto would maybe give up. But at this point it's getting to be Macarthur + Liles for Martin+ (if you would even be somewhat okay with that) and since no two fan bases can ever agree on a trade on HF I think discussions should just end there since it won't work out haha.

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08-01-2012, 12:06 AM
  #313
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Alright, that's what I was thinking but wasn't sure of. The defensemen in the trade we can most easily add are Komi (who I imagine you don't want for obvious reason) and Franson (who I doubt is able to play top 4 effectively enough for you to want). Liles would be the only other guy who I think would maybe interest Pittsburgh that Toronto would maybe give up. But at this point it's getting to be Macarthur + Liles for Martin+ (if you would even be somewhat okay with that) and since no two fan bases can ever agree on a trade on HF I think discussions should just end there since it won't work out haha.
ya agreed. I think we'd have to make a trade with another team for the d-man. But like I said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Martin or Niskanen on the block sometime during the season.

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08-01-2012, 12:13 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Alright, that's what I was thinking but wasn't sure of. The defensemen in the trade we can most easily add are Komi (who I imagine you don't want for obvious reason) and Franson (who I doubt is able to play top 4 effectively enough for you to want). Liles would be the only other guy who I think would maybe interest Pittsburgh that Toronto would maybe give up. But at this point it's getting to be Macarthur + Liles for Martin+ (if you would even be somewhat okay with that) and since no two fan bases can ever agree on a trade on HF I think discussions should just end there since it won't work out haha.
Before reading that you added Franson, I was going to mention him.



Clarke MacArthur
Cody Franson




Paul Martin
Eric Tangradi

Pens get a top 6 winger. Also, Franson is a big, right handed offensive defenseman, Pittsburgh loves defensemen that can move the puck, adding the fact that he's 6'5" would intrigue the Pens more, plus, and I've mentioned this with other players in proposals. Franson was Nashville's 3rd round pick in 2005, Ray Shero was their assistant GM. Plus he can add some physicality.

Despres-Letang
Orpik-Franson
Niskanen-Engelland

Toronto gets a top 4 PMD who Burke wanted in 2010, adds mobility to the Leafs blue line which has been said to be a need for them, and they get a big young power forward who Burke drafted in 2007 when he was with Anaheim.

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08-01-2012, 12:13 AM
  #315
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ya agreed. I think we'd have to make a trade with another team for the d-man. But like I said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Martin or Niskanen on the block sometime during the season.
I changed my mind, lets get crazy because that's how HF rolls haha.

NJ has extra defenseman looking for wingers I believe so lets get them involved. Now we need to think up of a trade that somehow involves Martin to Toronto, A Toronto winger and NJ defenseman to Pittsburgh and a winger to NJ. At this point Philly probably feels left out and needs to be included somehow though

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08-01-2012, 12:24 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Before reading that you added Franson, I was going to mention him.



Clarke MacArthur
Cody Franson




Paul Martin
Eric Tangradi

Pens get a top 6 winger. Also, Franson is a big, right handed offensive defenseman, Pittsburgh loves defensemen that can move the puck, adding the fact that he's 6'5" would intrigue the Pens more, plus, and I've mentioned this with other players in proposals. Franson was Nashville's 3rd round pick in 2005, Ray Shero was their assistant GM. Plus he can add some physicality.

Despres-Letang
Orpik-Franson
Niskanen-Engelland

Toronto gets a top 4 PMD who Burke wanted in 2010, adds mobility to the Leafs blue line which has been said to be a need for them, and they get a big young power forward who Burke drafted in 2007 when he was with Anaheim.
To be honest I don't know a whole lot about Tangradi but I think need wise that works wells for Toronto. I feel that I'm not a good judge of fair value in trades so don't want to comment on the trade as a whole (aespecially since I don't know much about Tangradi) haha.

Edit: Pretty sure other leaf fans wouldn't be thrilled with it though. They will say along the lines "Franson is worth a late first/early second and MacArthur could've been traded for a conditional first at the deadline. Martin has negative value and Tangradi isn't enough to make up the difference".

I would see it more as we move MacArthur making room for Frattin/Kadri to play. Martin should be an upgrade over Franson this next season and maybe always. Downgrade from MacArthur to someone projected to be in bottom 6 (is that a correct general assessment of Tangradi?) which leafs could use more of while upgrading our current defense.


Last edited by Grant: 08-01-2012 at 12:31 AM.
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08-01-2012, 12:31 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Before reading that you added Franson, I was going to mention him.



Clarke MacArthur
Cody Franson




Paul Martin
Eric Tangradi

Pens get a top 6 winger. Also, Franson is a big, right handed offensive defenseman, Pittsburgh loves defensemen that can move the puck, adding the fact that he's 6'5" would intrigue the Pens more, plus, and I've mentioned this with other players in proposals. Franson was Nashville's 3rd round pick in 2005, Ray Shero was their assistant GM. Plus he can add some physicality.

Despres-Letang
Orpik-Franson
Niskanen-Engelland

Toronto gets a top 4 PMD who Burke wanted in 2010, adds mobility to the Leafs blue line which has been said to be a need for them, and they get a big young power forward who Burke drafted in 2007 when he was with Anaheim.
If there's one thing we don't need to do, it's trade one of our only promising forward prospects just to get another young defenseman.

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08-01-2012, 01:25 AM
  #318
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If the Pens were going to look at possible players from Toronto I would be more interested in Bozak than I would C-Mac... I think if Bozak could be moved to wing he would be a better fit here, he is much more physical than C-Mac, has stronger board play and has shown this past year he knows how to play alongside talented linemates without limiting their game. He'd be a good poor mans Kunitz for either sid or malkins line.

Also with Toronto moving JVR to center Bozak is one of the many Centers that will lose a spot in the top six.

Going into next year Tor may run a top six that has

Lupul JVR Kessel
Kulemin Grabo C-Mac

and still have Lombardi/Connolly/Frattin/Kadri/Bozak all fighting for 3rd line minutes

Don't know what Bozak would actually be worth in a trade, he had like 18 goals and almost 50 pts last year with over 100 hits. I'd inquire if I were shero.

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08-01-2012, 02:00 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by PensFan68 View Post
Neal and Kunitz are 2 first line wingers.
i guess Vitali Yachmenev was a legit NHL 1st line winger in 1995/96?

the fact Kunitz can fill a hole in the top 6 doesn't make him a 1st liner.. put him out there without Sid and Geno and he looks like a good 3rd liner.

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08-01-2012, 02:06 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Bishop7979 View Post
If the Pens were going to look at possible players from Toronto I would be more interested in Bozak than I would C-Mac... I think if Bozak could be moved to wing he would be a better fit here, he is much more physical than C-Mac, has stronger board play and has shown this past year he knows how to play alongside talented linemates without limiting their game. He'd be a good poor mans Kunitz for either sid or malkins line.

Also with Toronto moving JVR to center Bozak is one of the many Centers that will lose a spot in the top six.

Going into next year Tor may run a top six that has

Lupul JVR Kessel
Kulemin Grabo C-Mac

and still have Lombardi/Connolly/Frattin/Kadri/Bozak all fighting for 3rd line minutes

Don't know what Bozak would actually be worth in a trade, he had like 18 goals and almost 50 pts last year with over 100 hits. I'd inquire if I were shero.
This is also why I'd be tempted to see what Connolly costs. Unless a rookie really steps up, I don't see Shero moving Martin yet. Niskanen was one of our best D last year, and could easily fill a 2nd pairing role, but Martin is a minute eating D, and the only way the Pens could fill that role is by spreading those minutes around - and with Michalek leaving, there would be a lot of minutes to fill if Martin left too.

Example; if Martin is moved, the minute break down isn't completely unreasonable... but do you really want Orpik playing 22 minutes a night? For this sole reason I don't see Martin going anywhere, and could see Niskanen getting moved sometime during the season for help on the wing. Martin can easily handle 25 minutes a night... in fact other than Letang, he's currently our only D that can handle big minutes. Orpik at 20 and Engelland at 15/16 a night is about the most I want to see from them... that means to move Martin, Shero would have to be damn sure of the D stepping up.

I also don't see room for Franson here currently. Love him and want him to do well, but we have a log jam on the blueline and do not see him as part of the solution.

Letang 26min
Orpik 22min
Niskanen 20min
Despres 20min
Engelland 16min
3rd pairing D 16min

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08-01-2012, 02:35 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by helicecopter View Post
i guess Vitali Yachmenev was a legit NHL 1st line winger in 1995/96?

the fact Kunitz can fill a hole in the top 6 doesn't make him a 1st liner.. put him out there without Sid and Geno and he looks like a good 3rd liner.
Are you a Flyers fan? I recall Flyers fans saying Kunitz is a bottom 6 player. When there is more than enough evidence to prove otherwise.

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08-01-2012, 06:32 AM
  #322
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So, looks like Malkin won't be playing in the memorial Lokomotiv match after all. Seems he's having some sort of issue with a visa. Which is odd, because after the WC he said in interviews he wanted to go to the Euro matches in Poland but couldn't due to passport issues. He had no problems coming to the states, though. I'm guessing there's some sort of work visa involved in that? I've never been to a country that requires a visa, so I really know nothing about them ...

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08-01-2012, 08:14 AM
  #323
Le Magnifique 66
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Watching the 2008 series against Detroit this week on the NHL network has really made me think how much we miss a guy like Ryan Malone. Wish he came back to the Pen

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08-01-2012, 08:22 AM
  #324
mpp9
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I'd sure like him.
They seem to have a hole in their top 4 or at the very least could use an upgrade over Hainsey. Id love to add Little. RHS who can play center or wing, solid work ethic, can produce on his own and is equally as talented of a playmaker as he is finishing. He's Sid's height so he's not a midget and can get around the ice well enough.

One can hope they don't have trouble scoring goals this season and will be looking to solidify their D making a push for the playoffs.

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08-01-2012, 08:26 AM
  #325
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Watching the 2008 series against Detroit this week on the NHL network has really made me think how much we miss a guy like Ryan Malone. Wish he came back to the Pen
For sure. Shift disturber who can hold onto pucks down low and torture D-men and drive the net to torture the goalie.

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