HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXII: Doan Go Breakin My Heart Edition

View Poll Results: So where do you think we go from here?
RayRay will sign a UFA quality wing in the preseason 4 2.67%
RayRay will sign a UFA grinder because that’s just how we roll 13 8.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a quality wing 19 12.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a grinder 2 1.33%
RayRay will give Adams a $11.5 million raise. 22 14.67%
RayRay will swing a trade deadline trade for a quality wing 62 41.33%
RayRay will buy himself $12 million of bling and rock this house 10 6.67%
Who gives a ****? Edward and Bella broke up, OMG 18 12.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-01-2012, 01:37 PM
  #376
cassius
Registered User
 
cassius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I keep seeing trade Marin threads on the trade board, mostly started by Pens' fans. I just do not get it. The idea made some sense when we seemed to have use for cap space and Z was still on the team. And we seemed like we might get Suter. All that has changed and it looks like Shero is not going to spend a dime of the enomous cap space we already have except to stock WBS. Now we want $5 million more? I am failing ro see the sense in this. And you all really want to have several rookies on defense on a team that many have as one of the cup favorites?

Move aside that though, some of you who remain Pirate fans only need to look at AJ Burnett for a parallel. He is the best pitcher on the Yankees's payroll. I sense that Martin will do similar and rebound strongly. Martin is much more likely to have a bounce back year as not this coming year. I would rather it be on the Pens when it happens.
Man... I would love to be optimistic about Martin, but he just flat out stunk for the past two seasons.

In terms of performance level relative to their salary, I would say that Martin is one of the biggest underachievers I've seen on this Penguins roster in recent memory. He sorta reminded me of Gonchar during his first year in Pittsburgh only without the offensive acumen. Just constant gaffes and turnovers at the most inopportune times. Late in the regular season when Martin plowed into Fleury and probably gave him a concussion... it was just a microcosm of his entire tenure with the Penguins. Just not good at all.

Down the stretch Martin consistently got burned by even slow forwards, was frequently caught out of position, showed no physicality whatsoever (especially in the playoffs when it matters the most), lacked offensive poise, and to make matters worse he's getting older and we are saddled with a long-term $5M/year contract.

If given the opportunity, I would definitely move Martin in a heartbeat just because I think his contract is so risky given the way he has played for the past couple seasons. There are guys that just totally "lose it" after signing big contracts - ala Wade Redden or Sheldon Souray. Some get it back... but I'm of the belief that management's patience has gotta be wearing thin with Martin.

Could he have a bounceback year? Absolutely, but you can't forget that he is a big part of the reason why we got bounced the past few years in the post-season. He got flat out abused and treated like a ragdoll during the Tampa/Flyers series. If he doesn't improve his play considerably, he'll be a big reason why we get bounced for a 4th year in a row.


Last edited by cassius: 08-01-2012 at 01:42 PM.
cassius is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 01:38 PM
  #377
TorstenFrings
wieder zuhause!!!
 
TorstenFrings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
He had a really rough year last year, but I prefer him over a full time Lovejoy, Strait or Bortuzzo. Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't be 100% comfortable with those guys as regulars
I think unless someone makes a stupid good offer for him, the best thing is to keep Martin and let him get at least better than last year, if not actually helpful to this team. Then maybe you can trade him for an actual forward asset. Trading him for picks, prospects or bottom pairing defenders+ makes no sense right now.

TorstenFrings is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 01:42 PM
  #378
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,406
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Man... I would love to be optimistic about Martin, but he just flat out stunk for the past two seasons.

In terms of performance level relative to their salary, I would say that Martin is one of the biggest underachievers I've seen on this Penguins roster in recent memory. He sorta reminded me of Gonchar during his first year in Pittsburgh only without the offensive acumen. Just constant gaffes and turnovers at the most inopportune times. Late in the regular season when Martin plowed into Fleury and probably gave him a concussion... it was just a microcosm of his entire tenure with the Penguins. Just not good at all.

Down the stretch Martin consistently got burned by even slow forwards, was frequently caught out of position, showed no physicality whatsoever (especially in the playoffs when it matters the most), lacked offensive poise, and to make matters worse he's getting older and we are saddled with a long-term $5M/year contract.

If given the opportunity, I would definitely move Martin in a heartbeat just because I think his contract is so risky given the way he has played for the past couple seasons. There are guys that just totally "lose it" after signing big contracts - ala Wade Redden or Sheldon Souray. Some get it back... but I'm of the belief that management's patience has gotta be wearing thin with Martin.

Could he have a bounceback year? Absolutely, but you can't forget that he is a big part of the reason why we got bounced the past few seasons in the post-season. If he doesn't improve his play considerably, he'll be a big reason why we get bounced for a 4th year in a row.
He was actually pretty solid defensively his first year. He didn't have the offensive production that I anticipated, but he did not "flat out stink". Last year I agree.

In terms of moving him in a heartbeat, we had and likely have that opportunity. Shero obviously still values Martin or he would have moved him already. Time will tell if his valuation is correct.

Shady Machine is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 01:45 PM
  #379
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
The Czech Republic counteroffers 50 kegs of Cesky Budvar, Vaclav Havel's (former) mustache, and a signed picture of Jiri Slegr (pictured).



Slegr. That guy was pure awesome. He's like the Van Damme of hockey players. Hittin the weight piles, sportin' the chain, lovin' the ladies. Pure 80s style, even though he was 90s. I still remember that goal he scored where he took off and did a full force chest bump with the glass. There Can Be Only One.... Slegr. ™ And his defense... well... did I mention the chain?

Imagine a time warp where Talbot and Slegr are teammates in their prime... hittin' the town. Be afraid. In fact we ought to come up with our own animated series called "Slegr Talbot: Man of Intrigue"


Quote:
Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
You can either have Angela (German chancellor)


Thanks. Not sure how my brain output Andrea there. I only read about her (and her secret escapades) every week in The Economist.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 08-01-2012 at 01:51 PM.
Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 01:53 PM
  #380
cassius
Registered User
 
cassius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
He was actually pretty solid defensively his first year. He didn't have the offensive production that I anticipated, but he did not "flat out stink". Last year I agree.

In terms of moving him in a heartbeat, we had and likely have that opportunity. Shero obviously still values Martin or he would have moved him already. Time will tell if his valuation is correct.
Good point, but I also think pride is very much a factor here.

Shero's defining move in free agency so far has been signing Michalek for $20M and Martin for $25m two summers ago..... both have underperformed massively relative to expectations.

He already shipped off 1 to Phoenix for scraps, so I think he would be hesitant to trade Martin too and chalk it up as a $45M miss. It certainly would not reflect well on his abilities to target and sign free agents that can help our team. Not to many GM's are in a hurry to admit a $45M miss and I can totally understand that.

cassius is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:01 PM
  #381
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,503
vCash: 500
Habs not close to signing Slew-ban. Talk about a strange idea... what's worse, having Semin play here or Subban? This is the summer of the anti-Penguin. Next we'll hear Hartnell is demanding a trade to us. Although I'll say this: it would be great to have a guy like Subban pissing off every player on the Flyers roster he goes up against. Would be sure to increase the Penalty draw stat. Plus he's got a nasty streak a guy like Martin will never have.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=402069


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 08-01-2012 at 02:06 PM.
Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:04 PM
  #382
Davos Seaworth
You are Nex!
 
Davos Seaworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Habs not close to signing Slew-ban. Talk about a strange idea... what's worse, having Semin play here or Subban? This is the summer of the anti-Penguin. Although I'll say this: it would be great to have a guy like Subban pissing off every player on the Flyers roster he goes up against. Would be sure to increase the Penalty draw stat.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=402069
How long to a Flyer's offer sheet?

Davos Seaworth is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:05 PM
  #383
cassius
Registered User
 
cassius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Habs not close to signing Slew-ban. Talk about a strange idea... what's worse, having Semin play here or Subban? This is the summer of the anti-Penguin. Next we'll hear Hartnell is demanding a trade to us. Although I'll say this: it would be great to have a guy like Subban pissing off every player on the Flyers roster he goes up against. Would be sure to increase the Penalty draw stat. Plus he's got a nasty streak a guy like Martin will never have.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=402069
I would definitely be interested in Subban - as much as I hate him, he's a heck of a player.

Wow $5.5M over 2 years is the Habs offer? Seems like a serious low-ball from my perspective when you consider some of the UFA contracts that went to average defensemen during this off-season. I.e. Carle at $5.5M for 6 years... Wideman at $5.2M

cassius is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:07 PM
  #384
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaniel Teager View Post
How long to a Flyer's offer sheet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius View Post
I would definitely be interested in Subban - as much as I hate him, he's a heck of a player.

Wow $5.5M over 2 years is the Habs offer? Seems like a serious low-ball from my perspective when you consider some of the UFA contracts that went to average defensemen during this off-season.

I just added and subtracted this from my post but offer sheet is right. If they don't sign him soon someone will do it IMO.

They're offering short term and less than 3M... gives room for a nasty offer sheet that wouldn't even cost us (or whoever did it) that many picks.

Give him 6 years, $6M and let Montreal match that. They probably would, but they wouldn't like it IMO.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:12 PM
  #385
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,648
vCash: 500
I expect Martin to have a good year. He still won't be the offensive help we thought he would be, but I expect the team in general to play smarter defensively. He'll get back to his form from 2011 which was really good defensively but soft and mediocre offensively. I think he eventually gets traded, but not because he sucks and we want to get rid of him. He'll get traded because he's got value and it won't be until we can replace him from within.

Ogrezilla is online now  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:13 PM
  #386
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,503
vCash: 500
Or with Subban.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:16 PM
  #387
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Or with Subban.
works for me.

Ogrezilla is online now  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:23 PM
  #388
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Habs not close to signing Slew-ban. Talk about a strange idea... what's worse, having Semin play here or Subban? This is the summer of the anti-Penguin. Next we'll hear Hartnell is demanding a trade to us. Although I'll say this: it would be great to have a guy like Subban pissing off every player on the Flyers roster he goes up against. Would be sure to increase the Penalty draw stat. Plus he's got a nasty streak a guy like Martin will never have.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=402069
He is also really hated in Philly, would be a perfect fit here

Le Magnifique 66 is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:24 PM
  #389
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius View Post
I would definitely be interested in Subban - as much as I hate him, he's a heck of a player.

Wow $5.5M over 2 years is the Habs offer? Seems like a serious low-ball from my perspective when you consider some of the UFA contracts that went to average defensemen during this off-season. I.e. Carle at $5.5M for 6 years... Wideman at $5.2M
True but Subban is an RFA not UFA. See Eric Johnson's contract with Colorado, something like that is more like it for PK

Le Magnifique 66 is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:36 PM
  #390
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 69,350
vCash: 50
Been away from here for a couple of days. Anything new on Doan?

Shrimper is online now  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:37 PM
  #391
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Been away from here for a couple of days. Anything new on Doan?
Nope, but it's official, we signed Megna!!!!

Le Magnifique 66 is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:39 PM
  #392
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 69,350
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
Nope, but it's official, we signed Megna!!!!
Is he a winger?

Shrimper is online now  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:47 PM
  #393
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
True but Subban is an RFA not UFA. See Eric Johnson's contract with Colorado, something like that is more like it for PK
I would guess in the 4-5 ballpark but an offersheet would have to be closer to 6 to get them to consider letting him go.

Ogrezilla is online now  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:47 PM
  #394
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Is he a winger?
yes, the one we have been waiting for all summer

Le Magnifique 66 is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:49 PM
  #395
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I would guess in the 4-5 ballpark but an offersheet would have to be closer to 6 to get them to consider letting him go.
I see the Habs moving this kid anyways, typical Montreal. He get's too much attention and the Habs usually don't like that from players. They move them and go on to have great careers while their fans complain why they can't have player like him. Love it!

Le Magnifique 66 is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 02:52 PM
  #396
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
I see the Habs moving this kid anyways, typical Montreal. He get's too much attention and the Habs usually don't like that from players. They move them and go on to have great careers while their fans complain why they can't have player like him. Love it!
TK+ for Subban

Ogrezilla is online now  
Old
08-01-2012, 03:06 PM
  #397
TorstenFrings
wieder zuhause!!!
 
TorstenFrings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,583
vCash: 500
I love Subban, I'd be happy to welcome him as our new evil overlord.

TorstenFrings is offline  
Old
08-01-2012, 03:24 PM
  #398
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
You Suck McBain!
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,399
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
He had a really rough year last year, but I prefer him over a full time Lovejoy, Strait or Bortuzzo. Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't be 100% comfortable with those guys as regulars
Lovejoy's as good as gone. Strait and Bortuzzo have both established themselves in the AHL and been nothing but steady in their NHL call-ups. I'd be fine with both as regulars - time for them to sink or swim.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is online now  
Old
08-01-2012, 03:27 PM
  #399
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Lovejoy's as good as gone. Strait and Bortuzzo have both established themselves in the AHL and been nothing but steady in their NHL call-ups. I'd be fine with both as regulars - time for them to sink or swim.
I just don't think there's any way we start the year with two rookies. Or a rookie defaulted into the top 4. That's why I think anything happening with Martin will happen a few months into the season.

A side effect of this is that Bylsma will almost be forced to see what Tangradi can do in a bigger role. That's good imo. Others will disagree obviously.

Ogrezilla is online now  
Old
08-01-2012, 03:32 PM
  #400
redsono93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 717
vCash: 500
What would it take to get Subban? He's one heck of a player.

redsono93 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:36 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.