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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXII: Doan Go Breakin My Heart Edition

View Poll Results: So where do you think we go from here?
RayRay will sign a UFA quality wing in the preseason 4 2.67%
RayRay will sign a UFA grinder because thatís just how we roll 13 8.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a quality wing 19 12.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a grinder 2 1.33%
RayRay will give Adams a $11.5 million raise. 22 14.67%
RayRay will swing a trade deadline trade for a quality wing 62 41.33%
RayRay will buy himself $12 million of bling and rock this house 10 6.67%
Who gives a ****? Edward and Bella broke up, OMG 18 12.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-02-2012, 01:37 PM
  #526
mr sidney crosby
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I think the penguins had the assets to offer the blue jackets the assets for rick nash. The rangers gave up 2 average offensive forwards, a defensive prospect, and a 1st. Thats not a whole lot to give up for a potential 40 goal scorer for crosby.

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Old
08-02-2012, 01:40 PM
  #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr sidney crosby View Post
I think the penguins had the assets to offer the blue jackets the assets for rick nash. The rangers gave up 2 average offensive forwards, a defensive prospect, and a 1st. Thats not a whole lot to give up for a potential 40 goal scorer for crosby.
so what does this package look like?

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08-02-2012, 01:40 PM
  #528
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Bryan Little would be a really nice option. He's a legitimate top 6 forward with upside. Question is as always, whats the price?

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08-02-2012, 01:51 PM
  #529
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
so what does this package look like?
Honestly that identical package doesn't exist here but we have similar value. It all depends on what the Blue Jackets wanted. From the public comments I saw, it seemed apparent that Howson wanted NHL forwards. They didn't get any high quality NHL forwards with big upside like Kreider or even Hagelin, but Anisimov and Dubinsky are better value than any roster players we have to spare.

I guess the deal would have to be something around Sutter, Kennedy, +. We definitely wouldn't trade Sutter so it's a no go for me. If they were willing to do prospects, it would have been Kennedy, Bennett, Tangradi, Dumoulin, 1st or something like that.

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:01 PM
  #530
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More on that TK/Murray trade possibility...

Would really love to have this lineup going into the season:

Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Doan/FA-Crosby-Dupuis
Cooke-Sutter-Jeffrey
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Orpik-Letang
Martin-Murray
Niskanen-Engelland
[Despres, Strait]

Ditch Bortuzzo for a late pick. Depending on how they play, one of Martin/Niskanen is likely expendable during the season. Despres would then step in in the case of an injury or when Nisky/Martin gets traded.

Dustin Jeffrey on the wing is a bit of a question mark, but the prospect of trading TK to fill a need is really exciting to me.


Last edited by Zbynek: 08-02-2012 at 02:07 PM.
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Old
08-02-2012, 02:23 PM
  #531
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Man, I really like to talk hockey with a lot of you, but some of you need a reality check. Did Crosby and Malkin retire? Why all the doom and gloom. This roster as it stands now can absolutely win a cup. It seems that most of you are only happy if we are the overwhelming favorites (which we would have been with a Parise or Weber addition). I think you all forget there are 29 other good teams fighting for players and they don't all just randomly trade their players because its equal value.

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08-02-2012, 02:28 PM
  #532
Shady Machine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boardin087 View Post
Man, I really like to talk hockey with a lot of you, but some of you need a reality check. Did Crosby and Malkin retire? Why all the doom and gloom. This roster as it stands now can absolutely win a cup. It seems that most of you are only happy if we are the overwhelming favorites (which we would have been with a Parise or Weber addition). I think you all forget there are 29 other good teams fighting for players and they don't all just randomly trade their players because its equal value.
I agree generally other than to say I don't like our chances of winning a cup with the current roster. The bright side is that I realize our roster will definitely look different heading into the playoffs.

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08-02-2012, 02:28 PM
  #533
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Has anyone heard the rumor of dany heatly coming to the pens?

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:30 PM
  #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr sidney crosby View Post
I think the penguins had the assets to offer the blue jackets the assets for rick nash. The rangers gave up 2 average offensive forwards, a defensive prospect, and a 1st. Thats not a whole lot to give up for a potential 40 goal scorer for crosby.
They wanted forwards, we have a plethora of defenseman. Wouldn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr sidney crosby View Post
Has anyone heard the rumor of dany heatly coming to the pens?
It's been shot down numerous times over the last few weeks.

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:32 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Honestly that identical package doesn't exist here but we have similar value. It all depends on what the Blue Jackets wanted. From the public comments I saw, it seemed apparent that Howson wanted NHL forwards. They didn't get any high quality NHL forwards with big upside like Kreider or even Hagelin, but Anisimov and Dubinsky are better value than any roster players we have to spare.

I guess the deal would have to be something around Sutter, Kennedy, +. We definitely wouldn't trade Sutter so it's a no go for me. If they were willing to do prospects, it would have been Kennedy, Bennett, Tangradi, Dumoulin, 1st or something like that.
exactly what i was getting at. we might have had equal value but we don't have two young forwards as proven and as expendable as Artem Anisimov and Brandon Dubinsky.

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:37 PM
  #536
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Rumor going around that Miroslav Satan wants to make a return to the NHL.
....get it done Shero?

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:42 PM
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boardin087 View Post
Man, I really like to talk hockey with a lot of you, but some of you need a reality check. Did Crosby and Malkin retire? Why all the doom and gloom. This roster as it stands now can absolutely win a cup. It seems that most of you are only happy if we are the overwhelming favorites (which we would have been with a Parise or Weber addition). I think you all forget there are 29 other good teams fighting for players and they don't all just randomly trade their players because its equal value.
We are absolutely cup contenders, but as fans it's tough to stand idle while division rivals make big splashes.

The center-heavy model we've been running for years has come to an end. It's time to finally focus on the top-6 - now. Now is the time with Sutter's manageable 2.3mil caphit. With the surplus of young defensemen we have in our system, we will finally have the cash to make a big upgrade there. With Staal and Sullivan gone, there is a need to replace their scoring. Thus fans calling out Shero to finally go out and get Crosby his winger.

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:44 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
exactly what i was getting at. we might have had equal value but we don't have two young forwards as proven and as expendable as Artem Anisimov and Brandon Dubinsky.
I figured as much.

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:46 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I've seen a number of long time posters take the bridge since July 4th. It's nothing new though, this board has been bi-polar since I can remember, hence the famous Dec tank threads that popped up multiple times over the last several years. I actually remember who started the threads, but I will keep that to myself.

I'm not doing cartwheels in the street over the offseason, but having played and watched the game most of my life I've learned how you start the season means little to how you will end it.

Malkin, Crosby, Letang and Neal can carry this team while Shero evaluates the roster and he will have a much better idea of where the young guys are, if Martin, Engo, Nisky, TK are more expendable, etc as the season progresses.
I'm sure I started one at one point, haha.

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:50 PM
  #540
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We're still the Vegas favorites as of right now...

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ances-improve/

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08-02-2012, 02:51 PM
  #541
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I don't understand why everybody is ruing the fact that we didn't acquire Nash.

That's not to say that I don't love Nash. I think it would be safe to pencil him in for 40+ goals riding shotgun with Crosby. With that said, here are my pro/cons on us acquiring Nash:

Pro:
Long-term winger for Sid
Would join Neal as the only winger who would require individual attention by other teams

Cons:
- We would have had to let go of at least a couple of NHL-ready forwards to acquire him at a time when we already have a woeful dearth of talent on the wings

- The $7.8M contract. At the end of the day, despite being a much better player than Neal, his production would be similar. Our team can't afford $7.8M players not named Sidney, Evgeni or Kristopher.

- As a follow up, his contract would likely mean that we'd have to jettison one or several of Malkin, Letang, Kunitz, or Orpik in the future.

So,

Nash

for

[NHL forward], [NHL forward], draft pick, [one of our other franchise players]

is a pretty lousy deal IMO.

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:54 PM
  #542
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Yeah, okay, I can agree with this. I am not claiming I know for fact that no opportunity I might have liked him to pounce on came up and I am certainly not claiming Plan A went off without a hitch or anything. Just felt that claiming that the deadline was doomed to not have anyone better than Gaustad available, so we should scram to do something NOWNOWNOW without providing any evidence that anything better than Gaustad is currently available.

I think something has to and will happen between now and the deadline. Unless we are talking about acquiring aging filler bottom pairing Dmen, on which I would like to hold off for now, I have no real preference as to when it happens.
Yep, that's the standard for me too. I'll be more anxious until the moves happen. BUT, I'll reserve final judgment until deadline day passes.

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08-02-2012, 02:55 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by DockEllisExperience View Post
We're still the Vegas favorites as of right now...

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ances-improve/
detorit 15/1, while dallas is 50/1?
not to mention the maple leafs at 35/1 and montreal at 40/1

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08-02-2012, 02:56 PM
  #544
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I'm sure I started one at one point, haha.
There are a few names I had stuck in my head, one guy, Doctor Dork, started one.

I think that was before you joined though, he was a ****** canoe, haven't seen him around in awhile...

The others were...

Spoil:

Some robot just left a message on my machine that I have to call them back right away concerning a personal business matter. I better go... I bet it is important.

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08-02-2012, 03:01 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I've seen a number of long time posters take the bridge since July 4th. It's nothing new though, this board has been bi-polar since I can remember, hence the famous Dec tank threads that popped up multiple times over the last several years. I actually remember who started the threads, but I will keep that to myself.

I'm not doing cartwheels in the street over the offseason, but having played and watched the game most of my life I've learned how you start the season means little to how you will end it.

Malkin, Crosby, Letang and Neal can carry this team while Shero evaluates the roster and he will have a much better idea of where the young guys are, if Martin, Engo, Nisky, TK are more expendable, etc as the season progresses.
Of course, but isn't the real question how Shero acts on that evaluation? Does he make impact moves like 2008 and 2009 or tweak because all in the regular season is well like 2010 or 2012?

That 2008 versus 2012 comparison really stands out. The Pens were in a similar situation. Sid out. Geno claims best two wingers and goes nuts. Flower standing on his head. Team racking up points. Shero saying 'getting Sid back will be the best deadline deal'. People wondering how good the team would be if Shero got Sid a legit wingers and a stay at home defenseman was added.

In 2008, he gave up a first rounder from the year before (who wasn't a bust at that point), a 2nd/3rd line tweener and character guy, a center with upside stuck on a team with three centers, a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd for an elite forward rental and that stay at home defenseman.

What did Shero do in 2012? I know. Prices were too high. Returns weren't right. BUT, Grossman, as I keep saying, would've cost a 2nd and a guy like Strait, and that's pretty much what he paid for Gill in 2008.

I just think the Ray Shero who hadn't won a cup was far less averse to risk than the one after he did. I just wonder where the Ray Shero who was forced to trade Staal will fit into that spectrum.

As I said, I'll wait. BUT, I'll be singing a different tune if he stands pat and then stands pat at the deadline because prices are 'too steep' and the team looks good in the regular season, even though the playoff red flags are there for anyone who takes off the blinders to see.

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08-02-2012, 03:01 PM
  #546
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This team is already mentally weak, and we haven't even started yet.

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08-02-2012, 03:02 PM
  #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
There are a few names I had stuck in my head, one guy, Doctor Dork, started one.

I think that was before you joined though, he was a ****** canoe, haven't seen him around in awhile...

The others were...

Spoil:

Some robot just left a message on my machine that I have to call them back right away concerning a personal business matter. I better go... I bet it is important.
I came across some of his old posts - sounded like grade A windbag. Good riddance.

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Old
08-02-2012, 03:03 PM
  #548
KIRK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Honestly that identical package doesn't exist here but we have similar value. It all depends on what the Blue Jackets wanted. From the public comments I saw, it seemed apparent that Howson wanted NHL forwards. They didn't get any high quality NHL forwards with big upside like Kreider or even Hagelin, but Anisimov and Dubinsky are better value than any roster players we have to spare.

I guess the deal would have to be something around Sutter, Kennedy, +. We definitely wouldn't trade Sutter so it's a no go for me. If they were willing to do prospects, it would have been Kennedy, Bennett, Tangradi, Dumoulin, 1st or something like that.
And then you've got to ask if Nash specifically was worth those assets.

I've got no problem with the names on whom Shero has passed. In hindsight, if Shero stands pat and then does the same at the deadline, then I'll be pissed in general but more specifically about Semin.

Personally, when you look at the Pens assets and how they fit another teams needs, I think the best target, when and if he becomes available, is Iginla.

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08-02-2012, 03:04 PM
  #549
Aiastelmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetangInTheSO View Post
I don't understand why everybody is ruing the fact that we didn't acquire Nash.

That's not to say that I don't love Nash. I think it would be safe to pencil him in for 40+ goals riding shotgun with Crosby. With that said, here are my pro/cons on us acquiring Nash:

Pro:
Long-term winger for Sid
Would join Neal as the only winger who would require individual attention by other teams

Cons:
- We would have had to let go of at least a couple of NHL-ready forwards to acquire him at a time when we already have a woeful dearth of talent on the wings

- The $7.8M contract. At the end of the day, despite being a much better player than Neal, his production would be similar. Our team can't afford $7.8M players not named Sidney, Evgeni or Kristopher.

- As a follow up, his contract would likely mean that we'd have to jettison one or several of Malkin, Letang, Kunitz, or Orpik in the future.

So,

Nash

for

[NHL forward], [NHL forward], draft pick, [one of our other franchise players]

is a pretty lousy deal IMO.
Exactly correct, sir. People are out there acting like this guy was on a sweetheart deal. It would even be questionable if we wanted to offer this guy 7.8m if he were a free agent, let alone give up assets for him.

He would have killed our cap flexibility over the next few critical years anyways. We still very much need to lock up Malkin and Letang, or we have real issues that Nash would not be able to solve for us. There are lots of other ways to upgrade our top 6, but I'm more concerned about seeing our D solidified during the year.

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08-02-2012, 03:05 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Sh00terMcGavin View Post
Rumor going around that Miroslav Satan wants to make a return to the NHL.
....get it done Shero?
I like it. Half a season watching Sid play with Dupuis and Satan was enough to get Shero to repeat his 2009 deadline moves: Fire the coach, trade Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi, and then send a conditional pick for Guerin (not to mention that cup winning move of picking up Craig Adams off waivers).

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