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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXII: Doan Go Breakin My Heart Edition

View Poll Results: So where do you think we go from here?
RayRay will sign a UFA quality wing in the preseason 4 2.67%
RayRay will sign a UFA grinder because thatís just how we roll 13 8.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a quality wing 19 12.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a grinder 2 1.33%
RayRay will give Adams a $11.5 million raise. 22 14.67%
RayRay will swing a trade deadline trade for a quality wing 62 41.33%
RayRay will buy himself $12 million of bling and rock this house 10 6.67%
Who gives a ****? Edward and Bella broke up, OMG 18 12.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-03-2012, 12:25 PM
  #701
SEALBound
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I don't know why people are freaking out about Tangradi. He isnot going to be gifted a spot on this team let alone the Top 6. Why some can't comprehend that is beyond me.

If he plays well he will get a look. If he doesn't he won't. He is not special...this isn't a special circumstance or anything...he has to play to prove and earn his spot.

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08-03-2012, 12:32 PM
  #702
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I don't know why people are freaking out about Tangradi. He isnot going to be gifted a spot on this team let alone the Top 6. Why some can't comprehend that is beyond me.

If he plays well he will get a look. If he doesn't he won't. He is not special...this isn't a special circumstance or anything...he has to play to prove and earn his spot.
I think it's the Obi Wan complex. If Shero stands pat and 'only hope' Tangradi doesn't pan out, then there seemingly is nothing to spare Sid from the darkness of centering Tyler Kennedy full time.

Put another way, I suspect it's more a case of hope induced kool-aid drinking than anything. There's no alternative at this time. Kennedy would be a nightmare. Ergo, you put your hopes on the coach giving Tangradi a shot, even though the odds of that happening and then it working out likely are low single digit percentage territory.

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08-03-2012, 12:36 PM
  #703
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Put another way, I suspect it's more a case of hope induced kool-aid drinking than anything. There's no alternative at this time. Kennedy would be a nightmare. Ergo, you put your hopes on the coach giving Tangradi a shot, even though the odds of that happening and then it working out likely are low single digit percentage territory.
This is true. Well, that and the fact that Tangradi has been one of the top prospects the Pens have had for the last few years...since the Kuntiz trade really, yet he's been given little opportunity when opportunity was there to be given.

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08-03-2012, 12:39 PM
  #704
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This is true. Well, that and the fact that Tangradi has been one of the top prospects the Pens have had for the last few years...since the Kuntiz trade really, yet he's been given little opportunity when opportunity was there to be given.
Well, one COULD argue whether he's done his part of earn the chance (FYI, I'd put more blame on Bylsma's abilities as a coach handling young players with anything more than grinder upside, but it's still a legitimate argument).

That said, it's pretty simple now: If Ray Shero stands pat, your choices for the top six (a top six that ALREADY would have Dupuis) are Kennedy and Tangradi. Kennedy would be a train wreck. Odds are Tangradi will be too. I'll take a 1 in 100 chance over no chance every time.

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08-03-2012, 12:44 PM
  #705
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Tangradi averaged 8 min in his 2 games this postseason. Despres had 9 min. in his 3 games. But yet it's more realistic to think Despres can take on top pairing minutes than for Tangradi to get 13-15 playing as a third wheel big body presence with the two best centers in the game?

I'm not following the logic. DB mentioned Despres as a fit with Letang. But he also mentioned Tangradi getting an opportunity in the top 6.

Barring a couple of trades before the season starts, we're gonna see a fluid lineup.


Last edited by mpp9: 08-03-2012 at 12:55 PM.
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Old
08-03-2012, 12:44 PM
  #706
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Well, one COULD argue whether he's done his part of earn the chance (FYI, I'd put more blame on Bylsma's abilities as a coach handling young players with anything more than grinder upside, but it's still a legitimate argument).
Looking back my post was missing the word "consistent." Tangradi wasn't given the consistent opportunity when the opportunity was available.

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08-03-2012, 01:02 PM
  #707
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Tangradi averaged 8 min in his 2 games this postseason. Despres had 9 min. in his 3 games. But yet it's more realistic to think Despres can take on top pairing minutes than for Tangradi to get 13-15 playing as a third wheel big body presence with the two best centers in the game?

I'm not following the logic. DB mentioned Despres as a fit with Letang. But he also mentioned Tangradi as getting an opportunity in the top 6.

Barring a couple of trades before the season starts, we're gonna see a fluid lineup.

the difference there, imo. is that despres showed some real flashes of ability that gives hope that he can take on more.

You can argue whether he has had a legit shot to show case his abilities or not.
But Tangradi has not shown any real flashes of high end talent in the minutes he was given. I've only seen ET live a couple of times in the A, I came away un-impressed both times and I made a point of watching him the whole time.

That's how I see it anyway. I would love to see him bust through this year, it's still possible.

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08-03-2012, 01:10 PM
  #708
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the difference there, imo. is that despres showed some real flashes of ability that gives hope that he can take on more.

You can argue whether he has had a legit shot to show case his abilities or not.
But Tangradi has not shown any real flashes of high end talent in the minutes he was given. I've only seen ET live a couple of times in the A, I came away un-impressed both times and I made a point of watching him the whole time.

That's how I see it anyway. I would love to see him bust through this year, it's still possible.
I'd ask those who are saying Tangradi hasn't shown any flashes of power forward ability, to rewatch game 4 against Philly.

If we get that player in training camp, I want him in the top 6 if no upgrades are brought in.

Asking Tangradi to be a third wheel in the top 6 is more realistic than asking Despres to play 20+ minutes against the best forwards in the game.


Last edited by mpp9: 08-03-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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08-03-2012, 01:12 PM
  #709
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People penciling in Despres on the top pairing next to Letang, IMO, aren't being realistic. You're asking a guy with less than 20 games under his belt in the NHL to play 20+ minutes a night, often times against the best players on the other team. I think that's wishful thinking.

More than likely, Despres will get the odd shift with Letang here and there, but spend the majority of his rookie year on the third pairing. Depending on how he does, then maybe, at best, he'll pair with Letang more frequently near the end of the regular season.

Also, Bylsma is a "veteran's" coach. And with Orpik, Niskanen, and Martin still on the roster, I can't see him playing Despres ahead of those three until Despres has paid his dues, so to speak.

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08-03-2012, 01:21 PM
  #710
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I'd ask those who are saying Tangradi hasn't shown any flashes of power forward ability, to rematch game 4 against Philly.

If we get that player in training camp, I want him in the top 6 if no upgrades are brought in.

Asking Tangradi to be a third wheel in the top 6 is more realistic than asking Despres to play 20+ minutes against the best forwards in the game.
btw, I agree that 20+ minutes for Despres his first full season is unrealistic.

Overall I think most would agree that Despres has shown more flashes of brillance then Tangradi. Just pointing out that that's why most feel an increase in responsibility seems more warrented for him.

I do have hopes that Tangradi can get a legit shot, I'd like to see this particular enigma solved once and for all. Can he be a top 6 forward for us or not...

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08-03-2012, 01:32 PM
  #711
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People penciling in Despres on the top pairing next to Letang, IMO, aren't being realistic. You're asking a guy with less than 20 games under his belt in the NHL to play 20+ minutes a night, often times against the best players on the other team. I think that's wishful thinking.

More than likely, Despres will get the odd shift with Letang here and there, but spend the majority of his rookie year on the third pairing. Depending on how he does, then maybe, at best, he'll pair with Letang more frequently near the end of the regular season.

Also, Bylsma is a "veteran's" coach. And with Orpik, Niskanen, and Martin still on the roster, I can't see him playing Despres ahead of those three until Despres has paid his dues, so to speak.
ya u are probably right, maybe after we get done killing a penalty or something pair him with letang on the next shift.
just hoping he does well, i don't really care what pairing he's on

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08-03-2012, 01:35 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by vikingGoalie View Post
btw, I agree that 20+ minutes for Despres his first full season is unrealistic.

Overall I think most would agree that Despres has shown more flashes of brillance then Tangradi. Just pointing out that that's why most feel an increase in responsibility seems more warrented for him.

I do have hopes that Tangradi can get a legit shot, I'd like to see this particular enigma solved once and for all. Can he be a top 6 forward for us or not...
We have 4 guys who can play 20 minutes on D. We don't have 4 top 6 wingers. I think people's expectations for Tangradi are very low and they aren't giving him enough credit with the way he played almost every shift for us in the postseason. There isn't a whole lot of competition if trades aren't made.

Despres will have to outplay established guys to get a top 4 spot and continue that level of play throughout the season. Have a hard time believing Niskanen and Martin will play bottom pairing minutes if he struggles for stretches.

We'll see.

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08-03-2012, 01:51 PM
  #713
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Strange, Jiggy, I always saw Tangradi being comparable to Malone and, for that reason, better suited to play with Geno.

I remember Malone with Sid. He'd produce, but the consistency was spotty because he just lacked that extra gear to keep up. So, you'd see times where trying to keep up, rather than playing his game, was the focus.

On the other hand, you're right about Geno wanting the puck. BUT, even in God mode, he always found a way to share with guys like Malone, no? Odd as it sounds, I think he'd develop a level of trust with Tangradi that he doesn't have with Kunitz.

Then again, the few times he's played with Sid, Tangradi looked nice. When he played with Geno, he sucked (but I think that might have had a little more to do with a genius coach saying 'gee, let's have Mike Comrie center Malkin and Tangradi).

I guess that I could see it either way. Definitely think he needs a real chance with both, although I'm not as sold as you that it will pan out (in part because I'm not as sold on the player, and in part because I'm not sold on the coach's willingness to rely on young players with anything beyond grinder potential upside).
The team is trying to develop Tangradi into Malone 2.0 but his natural tendencies lead him to playmaking and a much more finesse game than Malone plays.

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08-03-2012, 01:53 PM
  #714
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TK is by far a better player at the moment and that's just all there is to it. May change but until further notice......
We know what TK is: a sub par stop gap solution in the top 6. Tangradi at least has a chance to actually be good there. Will he be? I don't know. I want to find out. If ET plays there in camp and a couple pre-season games and its just a train wreck give TK the spot.

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08-03-2012, 02:09 PM
  #715
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The team is trying to develop Tangradi into Malone 2.0 but his natural tendencies lead him to playmaking and a much more finesse game than Malone plays.
i see Tangradi in the mold of a poor man's Clowe - a playmaking big man who is good at holding on to the puck. Tangradi is of course not nearly as physical. power-forward is a misnomer in this case. i'd look to basketball for the better label - he's in the vein of those european centers like Vlade Divac - the "playmaking big."

but the haters can have some cake too because Tangradi has/could develop same problems that plague Clowe and have resulted in him being on the block:
-relatively slow
-while good at holding on to the puck doesn't have the vision to fully utilize his playmaking = holding on to the puck too long = prone to turnovers


but that might be putting the cart before the horse. Tangradi needs to develop into Clowe-lite before we can complain about those types of things.

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08-03-2012, 02:16 PM
  #716
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Strange, Jiggy, I always saw Tangradi being comparable to Malone and, for that reason, better suited to play with Geno.

I remember Malone with Sid. He'd produce, but the consistency was spotty because he just lacked that extra gear to keep up. So, you'd see times where trying to keep up, rather than playing his game, was the focus.

On the other hand, you're right about Geno wanting the puck. BUT, even in God mode, he always found a way to share with guys like Malone, no? Odd as it sounds, I think he'd develop a level of trust with Tangradi that he doesn't have with Kunitz.

Then again, the few times he's played with Sid, Tangradi looked nice. When he played with Geno, he sucked (but I think that might have had a little more to do with a genius coach saying 'gee, let's have Mike Comrie center Malkin and Tangradi).

I guess that I could see it either way. Definitely think he needs a real chance with both, although I'm not as sold as you that it will pan out (in part because I'm not as sold on the player, and in part because I'm not sold on the coach's willingness to rely on young players with anything beyond grinder potential upside).
I used to think Tangradi and Geno would work well together, but now I think his best shot is to be with Crosby.

The reality is, Tangradi has to excel off the bat with DB there. IMHO, that will happen with Crosby much faster than with Malkin.

Tangradi has the hockey IQ to work well as a third wheel with both over time I feel. He just thrives off give and gos and moving the puck quickly, which is much more of what Crosby's game is about. Tangradi just gets in a zone when he is moving the puck well and he seems to struggle when he isn't handling the puck very often.

Crosby will get the puck on his stick in all three zones, quickly and in flight. That's why in their limited time together, you see some chemistry.

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08-03-2012, 02:33 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Tangradi averaged 8 min in his 2 games this postseason. Despres had 9 min. in his 3 games. But yet it's more realistic to think Despres can take on top pairing minutes than for Tangradi to get 13-15 playing as a third wheel big body presence with the two best centers in the game?

I'm not following the logic. DB mentioned Despres as a fit with Letang. But he also mentioned Tangradi getting an opportunity in the top 6.

Barring a couple of trades before the season starts, we're gonna see a fluid lineup.
Despres also played over 17m during several games in the reg season - and looked pretty good during them.

Edit: Yeah I see what you were getting at... nm.

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08-03-2012, 02:38 PM
  #718
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Despres also played over 17m during several games in the reg season - and looked pretty good during them.
I was the one wanting to move Martin at the deadline b/c Nisky could move up and Despres could take on a #5 role. So I'm not speaking ill of him at all.

But expecting Despres to slot in next to Letang is a bigger leap than seeing if Tangradi can be a third wheel in a top 6 role. At least that's my take.

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08-03-2012, 02:38 PM
  #719
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Strange, Jiggy, I always saw Tangradi being comparable to Malone and, for that reason, better suited to play with Geno.

I remember Malone with Sid. He'd produce, but the consistency was spotty because he just lacked that extra gear to keep up. So, you'd see times where trying to keep up, rather than playing his game, was the focus.

On the other hand, you're right about Geno wanting the puck. BUT, even in God mode, he always found a way to share with guys like Malone, no? Odd as it sounds, I think he'd develop a level of trust with Tangradi that he doesn't have with Kunitz.

Then again, the few times he's played with Sid, Tangradi looked nice. When he played with Geno, he sucked (but I think that might have had a little more to do with a genius coach saying 'gee, let's have Mike Comrie center Malkin and Tangradi).

I guess that I could see it either way. Definitely think he needs a real chance with both, although I'm not as sold as you that it will pan out (in part because I'm not as sold on the player, and in part because I'm not sold on the coach's willingness to rely on young players with anything beyond grinder potential upside).
I think that the Sidney Crosby that Malone could not keep up with is not the Sidney Crosby playing in the NHL today. After his high-ankle sprain, many have noted that he no longer uses that extra gear often to beat defenses with that explosive speed. More often now he makes more deliberate moves with the puck, although still at a speed that not many players have.

When Crosby was at full speed prior to that injury, there were few players in the league that could keep up with him from a speed standpoint and also continue to think the game and see plays develop at that pace. So many players that had the speed to keep up with him lacked the hockey sense to be ready to convert the scoring chances he created, or the players with the ability to convert lacked the speed to keep up.

The rare player that could do both at once has been elusive. Hossa would have been it if Crosby had not been injured and experiencing some lingering effects of the injury the entire time they played together.

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08-03-2012, 02:56 PM
  #720
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About Tangradi...

Ryan Clowe and Ryan Malone were 23 when they breakthrough. Tangradi is now 23...

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08-03-2012, 02:59 PM
  #721
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Forget this FA / trade for winger stuff. It's too late. I say we tank for MacKinnon (aka "The Next One"), from Cole Harbor Nova Scotia. Crosby comparisons abound!

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=402250

Then next year Sid will have a phenom on his wing.














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08-03-2012, 03:49 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
About Tangradi...

Ryan Clowe and Ryan Malone were 23 when they breakthrough. Tangradi is now 23...
I'm not feeling the whole Malone/Tangradi comparisons.

Malone played all throughout college after he was drafted, and excelled in his first shot in the big leagues. He played the whole season of his rookie year if I'm not mistaken, and never spent time with the Baby Penguins. Of course, you could argue that our team was much crappier back then, but still, he immediately adjusted to the NHL.

Tangradi, on the other hand, has been stuck in WBS for three seasons already. He has failed to impress on any of his call-ups over this time. While I agree he deserves a shot in the top-6 playing with Sid or Geno, I just don't think it will happen barring injuries. Bylsma would rather put NHL proven guys up there like Cooke or TK.

Age means nothing here as they were completely different scenarios - Malone played 4 years of college hockey. If anything this just means Tangradi is lagging behind in his development.

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08-03-2012, 03:57 PM
  #723
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I wonder what would be considered acceptable for Tangradi playing on with Malkin and Neal.

Consider that Kunitz, played about 14:30 mins even strength last year and put up 20 +23 for 43 points even strength.

I'd be happy if he played around 12 mins, I'd put Sutter out for important right handed draws since face offs aren't one of Geno's strengths to begin with.

Let's say he manages 11 + 22 for 33 ESP would people be satisfied, or would that make him a bust?

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08-03-2012, 03:59 PM
  #724
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I'm not feeling the whole Malone/Tangradi comparisons.

Malone played all throughout college after he was drafted, and excelled in his first shot in the big leagues. He played the whole season of his rookie year if I'm not mistaken, and never spent time with the Baby Penguins. Of course, you could argue that our team was much crappier back then, but still, he immediately adjusted to the NHL.

Tangradi, on the other hand, has been stuck in WBS for three seasons already. He has failed to impress on any of his call-ups over this time. While I agree he deserves a shot in the top-6 playing with Sid or Geno, I just don't think it will happen barring injuries. Bylsma would rather put NHL proven guys up there like Cooke or TK.

Age means nothing here as they were completely different scenarios - Malone played 4 years of college hockey. If anything this just means Tangradi is lagging behind in his development.
Great post

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08-03-2012, 03:59 PM
  #725
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I'm not feeling the whole Malone/Tangradi comparisons.

Malone played all throughout college after he was drafted, and excelled in his first shot in the big leagues. He played the whole season of his rookie year if I'm not mistaken, and never spent time with the Baby Penguins. Of course, you could argue that our team was much crappier back then, but still, he immediately adjusted to the NHL.

Tangradi, on the other hand, has been stuck in WBS for three seasons already. He has failed to impress on any of his call-ups over this time. While I agree he deserves a shot in the top-6 playing with Sid or Geno, I just don't think it will happen barring injuries. Bylsma would rather put NHL proven guys up there like Cooke or TK.

Age means nothing here as they were completely different scenarios - Malone played 4 years of college hockey. If anything this just means Tangradi is lagging behind in his development.
Let's not forget than ET also had a couple major injuries that delayed his development.

A skate sliced his thumb tendon in the spring of 2009, then he got concussed by Gillies in the spring of 2011. That's two off-seasons where he should've been making serious gains ruined by injury.

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