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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXII: Doan Go Breakin My Heart Edition

View Poll Results: So where do you think we go from here?
RayRay will sign a UFA quality wing in the preseason 4 2.67%
RayRay will sign a UFA grinder because that’s just how we roll 13 8.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a quality wing 19 12.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a grinder 2 1.33%
RayRay will give Adams a $11.5 million raise. 22 14.67%
RayRay will swing a trade deadline trade for a quality wing 62 41.33%
RayRay will buy himself $12 million of bling and rock this house 10 6.67%
Who gives a ****? Edward and Bella broke up, OMG 18 12.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-05-2012, 10:49 AM
  #851
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I think it's less about leg speed and more about mental speed when it comes to playing with Sid. I believe the whole "you need to be ultra fast to play with Crosby" thing is a bit overblown. Kunitz isn't exactly Gaborik, but Kunitz meshes well with Crosby because he knows his role and is comfortable with how Sid plays. If Sid is pushing the play with his speed, he doesn't need anyone else alongside him. Hell, it's Sid's calling card to push the defense back, wheel around and find a trailer with a ridiculous pass.

Point being, I don't think speed is essential to play with Sid. That being said, I'd much rather see Tangradi on Geno's line with Neal. Kunitz and Dupuis, while they're not going to win any beauty pageants with their style, work perfectly well with Sid. It's not ideal, but it is what it is.
Very true. Look at when Sid played with Hossa. They didn't exactly give and go all over the ice. It was more about pucks going to Hossa and he almost played more like a transitional swing man for Sid. Then he just found soft spots in defenses. It wasn't exactly like Lafontaine and Mogilny.

Two players that I would love to see play with Sid right now are Pominville and Elias. Not the fastest players but down right elite in terms of neutral zone passing.

Bennett seems like he can become this kind of player. More of a haulting, playmaking type of winger than a driving one. Bennetts kind of a strange player I think he's good in his own right but his gifts will enhance a star players game... and its not exactly him feeding off of a star.

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08-05-2012, 11:02 AM
  #852
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Very true. Look at when Sid played with Hossa. They didn't exactly give and go all over the ice. It was more about pucks going to Hossa and he almost played more like a transitional swing man for Sid. Then he just found soft spots in defenses. It wasn't exactly like Lafontaine and Mogilny.

Two players that I would love to see play with Sid right now are Pominville and Elias. Not the fastest players but down right elite in terms of neutral zone passing.

Bennett seems like he can become this kind of player. More of a haulting, playmaking type of winger than a driving one. Bennetts kind of a strange player I think he's good in his own right but his gifts will enhance a star players game... and its not exactly him feeding off of a star.
Being able to pass to fast players (e.g. Hit give and goes in stride in the neutral zone) is a rarer and more desirable skill than just being fast.

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08-05-2012, 11:04 AM
  #853
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This is Brooks, so take it with a large grain of salt.



Quote:
Shane Doan, who will turn 36 in early October and is seeking a four-year deal as he confronts the separation issues that will accompany his departure from Phoenix, his home for the last 16 years.

Quote:


Doan, who understandably wants this to be the last move he makes, is believed to have narrowed his sights on Manhattan, Pittsburgh and Vancouver.





The article is obviously written with a Rangers slant.

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08-05-2012, 11:07 AM
  #854
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This is Brooks, so take it with a large grain of salt.











The article is obviously written with a Rangers slant.
Brooks is average when it comes to rumours. My bet is on Vancouver.

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08-05-2012, 11:12 AM
  #855
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New York really doesn't need Doan. But I'm sure they'll still offer the most money.

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08-05-2012, 11:16 AM
  #856
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I don't think so. The Pens seem to like an active defense and that usually mean a sloppy defense. You can see it in how they draft and who they trade for. They like hockey that way.

IMO the Pens need that agressive play of the Disco system combined with the structure of MT's system when they don't have the puck. Something close to what the Shark where doing a few years ago. They always had a player pressure the puck but the structure behind that was elite. I'll actually take anything over what I saw this post season. Thats garbage peewee hockey. Two defenseman behind the net and both in one corner is for the birds. Yet we see it over and over again....
i agree.

that hockey we saw was legit embarrassing. like all-time horrific hockey.

pens need a drastic wake-up call, and to make a concerted effort to develop some structure in their own zone.

this team will never come close to anything if they dont do a complete 180 turn in regards to their defensive scheme. but i kinda doubt "player-friendly" byslma can do the job.

also talking about doan, i get the feeling that the pens have a fairly decent shot him. he is like the perfect shero-type player, so he might be willing to overpay.

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08-05-2012, 11:18 AM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Jonjmc View Post
This is Brooks, so take it with a large grain of salt.











The article is obviously written with a Rangers slant.
Pffft... see ya Doaner. Like the guy but thats a cerebral balsy move.

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08-05-2012, 11:31 AM
  #858
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Another 6 months or more without hockey.



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08-05-2012, 11:33 AM
  #859
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i agree.

that hockey we saw was legit embarrassing. like all-time horrific hockey.

pens need a drastic wake-up call, and to make a concerted effort to develop some structure in their own zone.

this team will never come close to anything if they dont do a complete 180 turn in regards to their defensive scheme. but i kinda doubt "player-friendly" byslma can do the job.

also talking about doan, i get the feeling that the pens have a fairly decent shot him. he is like the perfect shero-type player, so he might be willing to overpay.
I'm actually a Disco supporter but I don't think anyone is above being called out for their faults.

The thing that has me worried about him is that the way the Pens lost to the Flyers in last years playoffs is the same exact way they've been toasting the Pens for the better part of 2 years. The same mistakes that were made in the CEC home opener is exactly what we saw during that series. Mistakes and losses happen but when the same thing happens over and over again its a problem. Adapt already!!!

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08-05-2012, 11:47 AM
  #860
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This article pretty much answers a lot of questions around here regarding the Wild and any potential trades with the Wild this offseason. Its a great source and I get a good feeling that perhaps something may happen once the CBA s agreed upon (and the cap drops) betweek Ray & Fletcher. Fingers crossed on their forwards remaining healthy while discovering the need for a D on their blueline

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/164999796.html


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08-05-2012, 11:49 AM
  #861
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a cerebral balsy move.
Smart, but risky?

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08-05-2012, 11:54 AM
  #862
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Russo has earned a lot of respect. I think he's a hell of a reporter.

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08-05-2012, 12:13 PM
  #863
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Russo has earned a lot of respect. I think he's a hell of a reporter.
I concur

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08-05-2012, 12:15 PM
  #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #66 View Post
I don't think so. The Pens seem to like an active defense and that usually mean a sloppy defense. You can see it in how they draft and who they trade for. They like hockey that way.

IMO the Pens need that agressive play of the Disco system combined with the structure of MT's system when they don't have the puck. Something close to what the Shark where doing a few years ago. They always had a player pressure the puck but the structure behind that was elite. I'll actually take anything over what I saw this post season. Thats garbage peewee hockey. Two defenseman behind the net and both in one corner is for the birds. Yet we see it over and over again....
You realize that the "active" system they used on defense wasn't so active, right? In fact, we stood around more than any system. MT's defensive zone structure had more aggression than DB's. There is not a single question about it.

3 on 3 down low is 1-1 play and our defense went hard at the opponent. We just didn't transition well under MT. Bylsma came in, and changed the transition and we won the Cup.

Now, he changed the defense to the point where we are standing still in our zones and it causes total breakdown. It's not aggressive at all. In fact, it's the complete opposite. It's not active. We do not pressure. We do not move. That's what needs to change.

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08-05-2012, 12:18 PM
  #865
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Smart, but risky?
Nah... theres almost no risk for him. He either stays where he wants and gets over paid or gets way over paid to move to a cup team.

He's a good player not a great one but he's pushing the market because he knows there's not much left. So cerebral balsy ends up being smart about playing the market and being kind of balsy about his wants.

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08-05-2012, 12:23 PM
  #866
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You realize that the "active" system they used on defense wasn't so active, right? In fact, we stood around more than any system. MT's defensive zone structure had more aggression than DB's. There is not a single question about it.

3 on 3 down low is 1-1 play and our defense went hard at the opponent. We just didn't transition well under MT. Bylsma came in, and changed the transition and we won the Cup.

Now, he changed the defense to the point where we are standing still in our zones and it causes total breakdown. It's not aggressive at all. In fact, it's the complete opposite. It's not active. We do not pressure. We do not move. That's what needs to change.
I don't know. I saw guys like Scuds and Gill play with more structure around MAF while Martin and Zib seem to double up all over the ice. I actually think Disco has them playing more agressive and then it becomes a mad scramble to get into position.

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08-05-2012, 12:26 PM
  #867
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I don't know. I saw guys like Scuds and Gill play with more structure around MAF while Martin and Zib seem to double up all over the ice. I actually think Disco has them playing more agressive and then it becomes a mad scramble to get into position.
I don't know how else to respond except stating that a 3 on 3 focus down low is definitely more structural AND more aggressive. I could say that there is an argument for both of those.

But right now... it's a zone concept and it's not helping us. We are standing around all over the ice. Simplifying a game is sometimes the easiest thing to do.

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08-05-2012, 12:34 PM
  #868
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I don't know. I saw guys like Scuds and Gill play with more structure around MAF while Martin and Zib seem to double up all over the ice. I actually think Disco has them playing more agressive and then it becomes a mad scramble to get into position.
OMG yes. This is one of the first things I noticed with some of the losses against the Flyers. Guys were chasing the puck carrier all over the ice. Bylsma seems un-willing to play a style that almost every good defensive team plays because it would concede ice. Give them the outside but protect the middle.

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08-05-2012, 12:35 PM
  #869
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I don't know how else to respond except stating that a 3 on 3 focus down low is definitely more structural AND more aggressive. I could say that there is an argument for both of those.

But right now... it's a zone concept and it's not helping us. We are standing around all over the ice. Simplifying a game is sometimes the easiest thing to do.
it seems to me that guys just aren't sure what they should be doing too often. Even just an extra split second of hesitation is all it takes to blow your coverage.

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08-05-2012, 12:39 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You realize that the "active" system they used on defense wasn't so active, right? In fact, we stood around more than any system. MT's defensive zone structure had more aggression than DB's. There is not a single question about it.

3 on 3 down low is 1-1 play and our defense went hard at the opponent. We just didn't transition well under MT. Bylsma came in, and changed the transition and we won the Cup.

Now, he changed the defense to the point where we are standing still in our zones and it causes total breakdown. It's not aggressive at all. In fact, it's the complete opposite. It's not active. We do not pressure. We do not move. That's what needs to change.
If anything we have way too much chasing & movement. Good defensive teams collapse around the net & block shots. We chase guys around the ice which is a battle your never going to win. I can't count how many times I saw a D-man chase a forward to the blue line leaving the coverage a mess.

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08-05-2012, 12:50 PM
  #871
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I don't know how else to respond except stating that a 3 on 3 focus down low is definitely more structural AND more aggressive. I could say that there is an argument for both of those.

But right now... it's a zone concept and it's not helping us. We are standing around all over the ice. Simplifying a game is sometimes the easiest thing to do.
We might agree and I'm not being clear. I'm dumb like that.

When pucks are dumped into the Pens defensive zone or when there are 50/50 pucks I often see the D doubling up behind the net, in the corners or one side of the ice. When the Pens don't get to those pucks or the other team establishes play in the Pens defensive zone its a mad scramble to play a sloppy zone D. A defenseman will rush to the front of the net to take away that area but the well coached teams sneak a player to the weak side post for backdoor goals.

With MT's system a player like Gill would just fall back into the zone defense, protect the net and be aware of what was going on around the net. If the other team had pucks the Pens had a stronger box in front of MAF with less running around. Completely agree that MT had a bad transition game but I think his biggest downfall was falling into a trap rather than work the offensive zone endboards. IMO that pushing ahead was the key to the 09 cup.

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08-05-2012, 12:54 PM
  #872
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ignoring the details for a second, the bottom line is that the current defensive scheme sucks. immediate help isn't going to be coming in terms of new players, so improvement is going to have to come from the coaching stuff/system/current players adherence to the system.

and yeah, #66, i like bylsma too. just a bit concerned about his d-zone coaching.

people underestimate how valuable the discipline therrien instilled was.

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08-05-2012, 01:00 PM
  #873
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ignoring the details for a second, the bottom line is that the current defensive scheme sucks. immediate help isn't going to be coming in terms of new players, so improvement is going to have to come from the coaching stuff/system/current players adherence to the system.

and yeah, #66, i like bylsma too. just a bit concerned about his d-zone coaching.

people underestimate how valuable the discipline therrien instilled was.
Fully agree. I hated MT working with the WB kids but his time as head coach of the Pens was refreshing and needed. Thats being said I would also agree with the Pens in that when his time was up he really did need to go, can't say the same for coach Con. Screaming all the time wears thin and sooner or later falls on deaf ears.

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08-05-2012, 01:07 PM
  #874
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Something I was thinking about last night...anyone o e else think that Shero himself might play a factor? OK so look t the past, Staal doesn't want to stay here and wants to go to Carolina...Shero obliges. Michalek perhaps wasn't happy and may have wanted to go back to Phoenix...Shero obliges. I see him as a guy that says to build a great team...but in doing so his players happiness us a priority.

So say Doan signs he and the situation becomes stable in Phoenix...and he wants to retire a Coyote. I think Shero will make that happen a lot less painfully than any other GM. Could that play a factor? And more over the quality of the front office and ownership? The fans aren't pyscho either...that's gotta be a plus. This organization is a classy organization...fits Doan fairly well.

I'm not buying this he'll go to Vancouver because its close. Van is already 1500 miles away. Pit is 2100...you have to fly and make travel arrangements where ever you choose.

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08-05-2012, 01:07 PM
  #875
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ignoring the details for a second, the bottom line is that the current defensive scheme sucks. immediate help isn't going to be coming in terms of new players, so improvement is going to have to come from the coaching stuff/system/current players adherence to the system.

and yeah, #66, i like bylsma too. just a bit concerned about his d-zone coaching.

people underestimate how valuable the discipline therrien instilled was.
I just don't get how it worked so much better in 2011 than in 2012. Did the system change? Or did that team just focus much more on defense and playing safe?

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