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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXII: Doan Go Breakin My Heart Edition

View Poll Results: So where do you think we go from here?
RayRay will sign a UFA quality wing in the preseason 4 2.67%
RayRay will sign a UFA grinder because thatís just how we roll 13 8.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a quality wing 19 12.67%
RayRay will swing a preseason trade for a grinder 2 1.33%
RayRay will give Adams a $11.5 million raise. 22 14.67%
RayRay will swing a trade deadline trade for a quality wing 62 41.33%
RayRay will buy himself $12 million of bling and rock this house 10 6.67%
Who gives a ****? Edward and Bella broke up, OMG 18 12.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-31-2012, 11:45 AM
  #201
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I think it would be Seto. They still lack bigtime offensive talent, aside from Parise and Heatley. I don't see how they help themselves by letting him go.
They still have Koivu and Granlund who is also coming to NA this year which will help their offense big time

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07-31-2012, 11:52 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
They still have Koivu and Granlund who is also coming to NA this year which will help their offense big time
Koivu is legit but he's a setup guy. I'm not sure how they'll line up this year but my guess is they might have Parise C the top line, Koivu the 2nd line, and put one of Heatley and Seto on each of their lines. Granlund may become legit but as of now not a proven guy / someone you could say "well he'll pick up the slack for Heatley". He may never touch Heatley's production. We're talking about a guy who, when he has some talent around him can put up 40-50G a year, even though he may be an a-hole. Let's see if Granlund can score 25 before we pencil him in for 40 or 50.

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07-31-2012, 12:00 PM
  #203
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Koivu is legit but he's a setup guy. I'm not sure how they'll line up this year but my guess is they might have Parise C the top line, Koivu the 2nd line, and put one of Heatley and Seto on each of their lines. Granlund may become legit but as of now not a proven guy / someone you could say "well he'll pick up the slack for Heatley". He may never touch Heatley's production. We're talking about a guy who, when he has some talent around him can put up 40-50G a year, even though he may be an a-hole. Let's see if Granlund can score 25 before we pencil him in for 40 or 50.
I was never comparing the 2 and never said Granlund would be putting up those numbers like Heatley did in Ottawa, I know Heatley is the better of the bunch. They are a deeper and more balanced team up front with Parise and Granlund that's for sure.

Cap wise though, moving Seto compared to Heatley probably wouldn't help them that much though, and that was my point

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07-31-2012, 12:05 PM
  #204
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http://insidepittsburghsports.com/st...ogether/51394/

It's just TIOPS, but, yeah.

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07-31-2012, 12:08 PM
  #205
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i can only read the 1st paragraph

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:12 PM
  #206
Letang fan 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Koivu is legit but he's a setup guy. I'm not sure how they'll line up this year but my guess is they might have Parise C the top line, Koivu the 2nd line, and put one of Heatley and Seto on each of their lines. Granlund may become legit but as of now not a proven guy / someone you could say "well he'll pick up the slack for Heatley". He may never touch Heatley's production. We're talking about a guy who, when he has some talent around him can put up 40-50G a year, even though he may be an a-hole. Let's see if Granlund can score 25 before we pencil him in for 40 or 50.
Parise - Mikko- Heatley will be their top line, almost for sure.

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07-31-2012, 12:27 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by khaoskennedy View Post
i can only read the 1st paragraph
same here and it really doesn't say anything.

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07-31-2012, 12:29 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Letang fan 58 View Post
Parise - Mikko- Heatley will be their top line, almost for sure.
i'd say its a 98% chance their top six looks like that:
Praise-Koivu-Heatley
Bouchard-Granlund-Setoguchi

and a 2% chance they play Granlund on the wing for his rookie year:
Praise-Koivu-Granlund
Heatley-Cullen-Setoguchi

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:29 PM
  #209
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Not giving TIOPS any hits.

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:33 PM
  #210
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Quick rundown of why it would be worth it to overpay on a 4-year deal for Doan:

-Signing last legitimate UFA available versus giving up assets to trade for a guy of top-6 caliber
-Unique blend of size, grit, leadership, scoring ability
-Presence on ice would be intimidating at best, better than Kunitz at worst
-Shero hates to overpay for UFAs but this would make sense as a time and place for it
(win Cup now mode - Doan could be huge part of Cup run for all 4 years, health depending)
-Focal point of Phoenix offense for years; imagine his impact on Penguins offense if paired with Crosby for years
-If 6M/4 years figure is true, Penguins can handle the cap-hit over that term

Before I get flack for the Kunitz comparison, consider this: Doan is a more durable and bigger body, who has put up Kunitz numbers or better over the majority of his career. And this is without ever playing with an elite center.

And those worried about a 6M cap hit for the next 4 years? The only Penguins on the roster that are on contract for more than 2 years are Sid, Nealmeister, Fleury, and Martin (3 years). Malkin, Kunitz, Orpik, Letang, Niskanen, Vokoun and Glass ALL hit UFA in 2 years. TK, Cooke, Adams, Dupuis might not make it that far with this club either.

Long story short: This team will look very different in 2 years. But expect Shero to build around the core (Sid, Geno, Neal, Letang) which is very managable thanks to Sid and Neal already signing generous contracts.

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:46 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
yes he does.
if that's the case, i have to wonder why Shero dumped Michalek instead of trading Martin for value.


But hey, if somehow the salary floor will stay what it is supposed to be now, then Martin's trade value might go up as he could definitely help some teams to reach the floor

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07-31-2012, 12:52 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by helicecopter View Post
if that's the case, i have to wonder why Shero dumped Michalek instead of trading Martin for value.


But hey, if somehow the salary floor will stay what it is supposed to be now, then Martin's trade value might go up as he could definitely help some teams to reach the floor
I still think Michalek wanted to go somewhere else.

Also, Martin might help us play hockey because he's a good defenseman who had a bad year. I think he'll eventually be traded but because we have guys ready to take his place for cheaper, not because we will want to get rid of him.

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Old
07-31-2012, 01:24 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I still think Michalek wanted to go somewhere else.

Also, Martin might help us play hockey because he's a good defenseman who had a bad year. I think he'll eventually be traded but because we have guys ready to take his place for cheaper, not because we will want to get rid of him.
Bang on right there.

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07-31-2012, 01:56 PM
  #214
OnMyOwn
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
same here and it really doesn't say anything.
According to morons who pay and their comments, it looks like huselius got a camp invite?

I dunno. Doesn't hurt if he did.

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07-31-2012, 02:25 PM
  #215
LetangInTheSO
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Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
Quick rundown of why it would be worth it to overpay on a 4-year deal for Doan:
In two years, the following players will all be due for new contracts:
- Malkin
- Letang
- Kunitz
- Sutter
- Orpik
- Niskanen
- Engelland

I don't want to employ a 38 year-old Doan at the expense of a Malkin, a Letang, a Kunitz, a Sutter, and possibly Orpik depending on how he plays going forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
-Signing last legitimate UFA available versus giving up assets to trade for a guy of top-6 caliber
Committing to Doan now gets us his services for this year, sure. But do you think between now and this time next year we can find a better option than committing $30M to a late 30s Shane Doan? I suspect that more attractive options will emerge.

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07-31-2012, 02:38 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetangInTheSO View Post
In two years, the following players will all be due for new contracts:
- Malkin
- Letang
- Kunitz
- Sutter
- Orpik
- Niskanen
- Engelland

I don't want to employ a 38 year-old Doan at the expense of a Malkin, a Letang, a Kunitz, a Sutter, and possibly Orpik depending on how he plays going forward.
I agree. He has definitely slowed down some the last couple years and he's likely to slow more. Happy to give Doan 2 and 6, that's it. If he's still great after two, give him another 2 at a lower amount.

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07-31-2012, 02:47 PM
  #217
Zbynek
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Originally Posted by LetangInTheSO View Post
In two years, the following players will all be due for new contracts:
- Malkin
- Letang
- Kunitz
- Sutter
- Orpik
- Niskanen
- Engelland

I don't want to employ a 38 year-old Doan at the expense of a Malkin, a Letang, a Kunitz, a Sutter, and possibly Orpik depending on how he plays going forward.
Malkin and Letang will be locked up by the end of next summer, at CBA max term deals of about 9 and 7 million, respectively. These two players will NOT be affected by a 6million dollar Shane Doan deal.

Sid+Geno+Letang+Fleury+Neal+Martin
8.7M + 9M + 7M + 5M +5M + 5M= 39.7M

Add in a Shane Doan contract of 6M to that and that's just under 46M. Not bad at all for a core of 2 centers, 2 defenseman, 2 top-6 wingers, and a goalie.

30M+ of capspace is plenty to fill out the rest of the roster, and this is all assuming we keep Martin that long (my guess is we don't). Kunitz and Orpik, if retained, will play at discounts from what they make now. We will have RFA leverage over Sutter so his contract won't be inflated either. The rest of the roster is gravy.


Quote:
Committing to Doan now gets us his services for this year, sure. But do you think between now and this time next year we can find a better option than committing $30M to a late 30s Shane Doan? I suspect that more attractive options will emerge.
Not without giving up top assets like Despres+. More attractive options could emerge, but we are in the win NOW mode. There's only so long we can wait.

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07-31-2012, 02:47 PM
  #218
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Huselius as a camp invite isn't too bad, if he looks good and is healthy, a cheap 1yr deal until someone is ready in the AHL to step up next year is a decent move.

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07-31-2012, 02:49 PM
  #219
Zbynek
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I agree. He has definitely slowed down some the last couple years and he's likely to slow more. Happy to give Doan 2 and 6, that's it. If he's still great after two, give him another 2 at a lower amount.
That's a fine and dandy plan, except he won't sign here for 2 years. If he leaves Phoenix it is to a place where he can finish out his career and cash out on his final contract. (6M+, 4 years)

Don't get me wrong. I would much rather prefer to give Doan 6M/2. But we won't get him unless we offer 4. It's that simple

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07-31-2012, 03:17 PM
  #220
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Huselius as a camp invite isn't too bad, if he looks good and is healthy, a cheap 1yr deal until someone is ready in the AHL to step up next year is a decent move.
Wouldn't be a bad idea, i'd still prefer Kostitsyn

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07-31-2012, 03:18 PM
  #221
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Every off-season, our winger search is like playing a game of Wheel of Fortune where you can only land on $1, $0.10, or bankrupt.

As much as folks like to defend Shero around here (and he is a very fine GM), it's tough not to be disappointed and/or frustrated. I definitely thought we would have a full-time winger for Sid by now, especially when you consider that the guy signed a cap-friendly long-term contract and is still acclimating to the NHL after a very long layoff.

We saw what adding a legit wing did to Malkin's game... it's almost a no brainer that adding a playmaker to Sid's line would take his game to an entirely new stratosphere.

Sadly, it just wasn't in the cards this offseason.

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07-31-2012, 03:22 PM
  #222
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The thing with Doan is that he will always be able to bring value to your squad. What he does well, I can't really see that leaving him. He may lose a step more, or whatever, but he will always be a hard player to play against, and I am pretty confident that'd he'd be able to produce a solid amount of goals and points the next 4 years.

The problem comes in where he wants 6.5 million. There's not a shot he lives up to that number THIS season let alone 4 years down the road.

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07-31-2012, 03:25 PM
  #223
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Every off-season, our winger search is like playing a game of Wheel of Fortune where you can only land on $1, $0.10, or bankrupt.
Legit LOL, but you forgot 'lose a turn' (for the prospects), 'vacation' (from the playoffs) and 'go to jail' (overpay for an outdated "enforcer").

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07-31-2012, 03:41 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Every off-season, our winger search is like playing a game of Wheel of Fortune where you can only land on $1, $0.10, or bankrupt.

As much as folks like to defend Shero around here (and he is a very fine GM), it's tough not to be disappointed and/or frustrated. I definitely thought we would have a full-time winger for Sid by now, especially when you consider that the guy signed a cap-friendly long-term contract and is still acclimating to the NHL after a very long layoff.

We saw what adding a legit wing did to Malkin's game... it's almost a no brainer that adding a playmaker to Sid's line would take his game to an entirely new stratosphere.

Sadly, it just wasn't in the cards this offseason.
Shero and Bylsma don't believe adding a winger is a priority like fans do because if they did, passing on Alexander Semin wouldn't have happened. They obviously believe they are choosers and not beggars in acquiring wingers.

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07-31-2012, 03:44 PM
  #225
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I won't mind if I eat my words, but I just don't see it happening. Doan will sign out West or a ridiculous contract out East.. Shero won't get sucked into overpaying.

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