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Lecavalier vs Stamkos

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07-30-2012, 10:14 PM
  #1
Stephen
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Lecavalier vs Stamkos

These two players were both highly touted centermen drafted first overall by the Tampa Bay Lightning ten years apart from one another. Lecavalier had real ups and downs in his early years before being one of the leaders on a Stanley Cup winner before blossoming briefly as one of the games best offensive and physical forces before declining, while Stamkos has basically been a superstar in Tampa Bay from a very early age, outstripping Lecavalier in every statistical margin by a wide margin.

With all these things considered, can we still make a case that Vincent Lecavalier's presence in Tampa Bay during his early years meant more to that franchise than Steven Stamkos?

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07-31-2012, 06:22 AM
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I don't think so.

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07-31-2012, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
These two players were both highly touted centermen drafted first overall by the Tampa Bay Lightning ten years apart from one another. Lecavalier had real ups and downs in his early years before being one of the leaders on a Stanley Cup winner before blossoming briefly as one of the games best offensive and physical forces before declining, while Stamkos has basically been a superstar in Tampa Bay from a very early age, outstripping Lecavalier in every statistical margin by a wide margin.

With all these things considered, can we still make a case that Vincent Lecavalier's presence in Tampa Bay during his early years meant more to that franchise than Steven Stamkos?
I do not think so. Presence of the young Lecavalier wasnot crucial to the team success. With hindsight, more crucial players to franchise success were Richards, St. Louis and veteran-presence of Andreychuk. Dont forget, first four years of Lecavalier were huge dissapointment for Lightnings.

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07-31-2012, 09:27 AM
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I do not think so. Presence of the young Lecavalier wasnot crucial to the team success. With hindsight, more crucial players to franchise success were Richards, St. Louis and veteran-presence of Andreychuk. Dont forget, first four years of Lecavalier were huge dissapointment for Lightnings.
I don't think that is fair.

Lecavalier was rushed as the "saviour" and he wasn't ready for it yet.

Stamkos has had the benefit of a stud Hall of Fame winger setting him up as well as a more developed Lecavalier too.

That being said, early on there wasn't a lot of success to speak of in Tampa.

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07-31-2012, 10:06 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Stamko was better than Lecavalier at the same age, no question.

But I can definitely see how you could argue for Lecavalier's
importance. He was the face of an expansion franchise for quite some time. Stamkos came into the league sharing the spotlight with St. Louis

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07-31-2012, 02:32 PM
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In reality, it should have been. To be honest Lecavalier could have had a career for the ages. He had all the physical tools for it. Size, skill, vision, shot, tenacity, physical play if needed be, dropping the gloves if he had to, and he has always been a good skater.

For some reason Lecavalier never put it together until right around the 2004 World Cup when we saw the type of player he was supposed to become. By then he had a Cup under his belt too. He really hit his stride in 2006-'07 leading the NHL in goals and was a 2nd team all-star. At this time, it was obvious he was on the path to a HHOF career. Or so you thought. I really can't explain the reasons why he never maintained that level. Maybe others have some insight, but it almost seemed like a confidence thing. Like his head wasn't in the game.

In the summer of 2009 it was written down in a very, very dark pencil that Crosby, Thornton and Lecavalier would be the centers on the Olympic team. The rest of Getzlaf, Richards, Staal, Toews, etc. would fight it out. Lecavalier had a trying 2009-'10 season and he has never been relevant since.

From what I saw Lecavalier has never quite reached the level that Stamkos did this past year. He was close in 2007 but he never was able to hang onto the pace the way Stammer has for the last 2-3 years, and I am afraid he will only get better.

So yeah, at the same age, despite different circumstances there is no way I pass up Stamkos on my team. He has been far more crucial

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07-31-2012, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I don't think that is fair.

Lecavalier was rushed as the "saviour" and he wasn't ready for it yet.

Stamkos has had the benefit of a stud Hall of Fame winger setting him up as well as a more developed Lecavalier too.

That being said, early on there wasn't a lot of success to speak of in Tampa.
Of course it was not fair. For Lecavalier. He came to a team full of losers (Richer, Gratton, Selivanov, Janney) and he should save them. He didn't, until he doesnt get the help from Richards, St. Louis and Andreychuk. He failed in his role.
On the other hand, Stamkos after just first half of his first NHL season fullfilled all his potential and altough he didn't exactly make Lightnings contenders, he did what he had to do - become superstar.

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07-31-2012, 03:35 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
These two players were both highly touted centermen drafted first overall by the Tampa Bay Lightning ten years apart from one another. Lecavalier had real ups and downs in his early years before being one of the leaders on a Stanley Cup winner before blossoming briefly as one of the games best offensive and physical forces before declining, while Stamkos has basically been a superstar in Tampa Bay from a very early age, outstripping Lecavalier in every statistical margin by a wide margin.

With all these things considered, can we still make a case that Vincent Lecavalier's presence in Tampa Bay during his early years meant more to that franchise than Steven Stamkos?
i guess it depends how broadly you define "one of the leaders."

to my mind, lecavalier has always been overrated. certainly in '04 he got more credit than he deserved, same with the world cup.

one wonders where tampa would be today if they'd traded lecavalier instead of richards when the franchise was going through that financial spit show. they probably would have gotten more back, and in both the long and short runs, they'd be a stronger team with richards instead of lecavalier. probably would still have gotten stamkos too, given how late in the '08 season that trade was.

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07-31-2012, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
In reality, it should have been. To be honest Lecavalier could have had a career for the ages. He had all the physical tools for it. Size, skill, vision, shot, tenacity, physical play if needed be, dropping the gloves if he had to, and he has always been a good skater.

For some reason Lecavalier never put it together until right around the 2004 World Cup when we saw the type of player he was supposed to become. By then he had a Cup under his belt too. He really hit his stride in 2006-'07 leading the NHL in goals and was a 2nd team all-star. At this time, it was obvious he was on the path to a HHOF career. Or so you thought. I really can't explain the reasons why he never maintained that level. Maybe others have some insight, but it almost seemed like a confidence thing. Like his head wasn't in the game.

In the summer of 2009 it was written down in a very, very dark pencil that Crosby, Thornton and Lecavalier would be the centers on the Olympic team. The rest of Getzlaf, Richards, Staal, Toews, etc. would fight it out. Lecavalier had a trying 2009-'10 season and he has never been relevant since.

From what I saw Lecavalier has never quite reached the level that Stamkos did this past year. He was close in 2007 but he never was able to hang onto the pace the way Stammer has for the last 2-3 years, and I am afraid he will only get better.

So yeah, at the same age, despite different circumstances there is no way I pass up Stamkos on my team. He has been far more crucial
Injuries, dirty hit from Cooke wrecked his shoulder, combine that with surgery on both wrists since.

He said recently that he has only this offseason regained full mobility in his shoulder.

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07-31-2012, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Stamko was better than Lecavalier at the same age, no question.

But I can definitely see how you could argue for Lecavalier's
importance. He was the face of an expansion franchise for quite some time. Stamkos came into the league sharing the spotlight with St. Louis
Yeah, it's what I'm trying to get at. Lecavalier was hot and cold early in his career, and a bit of a troubled prodigy of sorts, but there seemed to be a lot of hope in waiting for what he would become which seemed to be extremely important for the success or survival of the Lightning as a franchise, which was basically a similar player to what Joe Thornton was. And for a very brief time, he did achieve that.

Stamkos on the other hand just seemed to turn it on so easily that people just take him for granted.

I'm a big fan of both players, and it's really interesting to see how differently their paths to stardom have been as first overall picks.

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07-31-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Stamko was better than Lecavalier at the same age, no question.

But I can definitely see how you could argue for Lecavalier's
importance. He was the face of an expansion franchise for quite some time. Stamkos came into the league sharing the spotlight with St. Louis
Came here to say pretty much this. Tampa Bay was a team without an identity before Vinny. He helped put a face to the team in a non-traditional hockey market, and (presumably, I can't speak from experience since I never lived in the Tampa area) helped expand the fanbase. Let's also not forget that with Vinny as the centerpiece of the team, Tampa was able to win a cup...which again helped grow the fanbase.

Stamkos had a much "cushier" entrance to the league. But no one will argue that Stamkos's personal successes thus far have trumped Vinny's in the same time frame...hell, over Vinny's whole career for that matter (if you exclude the cup run).

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07-31-2012, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I don't think that is fair.

Lecavalier was rushed as the "saviour" and he wasn't ready for it yet.

Stamkos has had the benefit of a stud Hall of Fame winger setting him up as well as a more developed Lecavalier too.

That being said, early on there wasn't a lot of success to speak of in Tampa.
Lecavalier was not physically ready for nhl in his rooki season too. He was very very tall and skinny for an nhler.

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07-31-2012, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
Injuries, dirty hit from Cooke wrecked his shoulder, combine that with surgery on both wrists since.

He said recently that he has only this offseason regained full mobility in his shoulder.
Ah right, the Cooke hit.

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07-31-2012, 08:34 PM
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Stamkos has definitely had a far better start to his career than Lecavalier had. Better linemates or not, Stamkos has had two 50+ goal seasons (one of those being a 60 goal season) by the age of 22. Lecavalier took a number of years to truly become established as a star in the NHL, and because of this, I'd hesitate to say he was more valuable in his younger years than Stamkos has been.That being said, Lecavalier looked to be turning into a truly dominant force by the 2006-2007 season, and the fact that he didn't continue on at an elite level is entirely the fault of Matt Cooke.

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07-31-2012, 09:18 PM
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Not going to speculate on exactly what early Lecavalier meant to Tampa Bay and how it compares to Stamkos now as i didnt follow them back then. However it dont think it is right to say that Stamkos is outstripping Lecavalier be it in play or statistically by a wide margin given that Lecavalier circa the year 2007 (both ssns including that year) can be said to be the best player in the world. As bassassin mentioned if not for Vinny's injuries it seems unlikely that the Lightning would be in a spot to draft Stamkos. And had Vinny just sat out when he was hurt in 08 then you might speaking of him like you do of Crosby's half year.

As much as Stamkos elevated his game last year (forget the stats which are quite similar for the past 3 years because Stamkos was clearly playing better in the most recent one) i dont think he has reached Vinny's peak.

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07-31-2012, 09:23 PM
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Not going to speculate on exactly what early Lecavalier meant to Tampa Bay and how it compares to Stamkos now as i didnt follow them back then. However it dont think it is right to say that Stamkos is outstripping Lecavalier be it in play or statistically by a wide margin given that Lecavalier circa the year 2007 (both ssns including that year) can be said to be the best player in the world. As bassassin mentioned if not for Vinny's injuries it seems unlikely that the Lightning would be in a spot to draft Stamkos. And had Vinny just sat out when he was hurt in 08 then you might speaking of him like you do of Crosby's half year.

As much as Stamkos elevated his game last year (forget the stats which are quite similar for the past 3 years because Stamkos was clearly playing better in the most recent one) i dont think he has reached Vinny's peak.
Up to the age of 22, Stamkos has just come off a 60 goal season, while Lecavalier was finishing up a terrible 37 point season with a career high of 67 points as a 19 year old. Maybe I should have been clear about Stamkos outstripping Lecavalier.

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07-31-2012, 09:42 PM
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gotcha
Stamkos has pretty easily been the superior player in his young career

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08-03-2012, 02:02 PM
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Up to the age of 22, Stamkos has just come off a 60 goal season, while Lecavalier was finishing up a terrible 37 point season with a career high of 67 points as a 19 year old. Maybe I should have been clear about Stamkos outstripping Lecavalier.
Yeah stats wise not even close Stamkos destroys Lecavalier. But dominance wise, there are very few players I take over a 06-08 Lecavalier, he was ridiculous. He was on a one line team, facing top matchups every night, awful D and goaltending and that line still made other teams look foolish.

Stamkos scores more goals no doubt, but he hasn't yet taken over games in quite the same way Vinny did. It will come no doubt but not yet I think is what toob was saying. Also in terms of playmaking Vinny is still easily superior.

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