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The Luongo Thread: We're doing 65, so we should be there in a billion years...

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08-05-2012, 04:49 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
except that looking at historical trends, this fact is more appropriate for elite skaters than elite goalies, where the decline is generally less

in fact, can you name any goalies that were elite for a decade then declined in their early-mid 30s?


Depends on who you define as "elite" as that's a pretty subjective label, but:

- Curtis Joseph had his last really good season for Detroit in 2002-03 at age 35.

- Patrick Roy retired at age 36 but you could argue was still "elite" at the time.

- Marty Brodeur had arguably his last "elite" season back in 2007-08 at age 35 and declined to "good" for the last few years until his playoff resurgence.

- Ed Belfour finished in the top 10 for SV% in 2002-03 at age 37 and while he was still pretty good the next year, his elite days were done.

- Domenic Hasek was still pretty elite back in 2005-06 for Ottawa at age 41, so he fits your criteria of lasting until his late 30's / early 40's.


Not a very hard analysis I know but I just looked up the first 5 guys I could think of that had the "elite" label attached to them over the past decade or so. 35-37 seems to be the age where most guys started to decline from their elite status to merely "good" (or in Roy's case chose to retire). Hasek is the most obvious exception to this, but then the guy was a noted fitness freak and is the best goalie from the past few decades so he hardly counts as the norm.

All in all, with Luongo turning 34 late next season, you could argue that his expected time frame for remaining a top 10 goalie is another 2-4 years at best. Sure he could extend that a bit longer but that would probably be the anomaly, not the expectation. We may have already started to see some slippage in his game, with his save% ranking 12th and GAA ranking 16th last season. Not bad by any stretch, but hardly fit the "elite" label anymore.

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08-05-2012, 04:57 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
Just put yourself in Luongo's shoes for a second...imagine how you'd feel during that meeting with Gillis...

"So Roberto, we have no intention of keeping you, but so far the team you'll eventually wind up on isn't willing to give us enough value so we're going to keep you until they do. Yes, of course more value to us will mean the team you end up on is weaker, but you're a team guy right.

While we wait, we want you to play every second game for us, stay focused, win us some games. You won't be with us come playoffs, and you might even end up traded to a team we're competing with for playoff positioning, but just stay professional and play at the top of your game.

Now when the media asks you every day (and they will) when a trade is coming, how you feel being a lame duck goalie, how you'll feel about going to a team that initially didn't think you were worth the cost of acquiring, etc just stay focused, don't make any 'pump your tire' type comments and don't be a distraction. Same goes for every other member of the organization.

And oh yeah, at some point in the middle of the season we will be trading you so you'll have to pack up and relocate, probably just in time for the home stretch. It means you won't have any time to get used to your new location or to bond and build chemistry with your new teammates. You're cool with this?"

Luongo:"Yeah, um, no. Go eff yourself."

"But you said you'd do anything to help the team?!?!?"

There's no way Luongo goes into the season as a Canuck. No way. I'm shocked there's still people that feel it could happen.

+1. I couldn't agree more and can't believe such a large portion of our fan base are so optimistic (naive?) as to think that Luongo (and Schneider) are going to go for a scenario like the previous poster described. Both want to be "the guy" and have a world of options available to them. Schneider was 1 yr away from being a UFA and able to go to any team that wanted to make him their undisputed #1, yet was willing to sign a 3-year deal to stay here. You think he didn't ask Gillis what his role on the team was supposed to be? If Gillis tells him he's gonna split the season 50-50 with Luongo, you think he signs that deal? Of course not. And Luongo has already indicated he thinks it would be "best for both parties" if they parted ways. Does that sound like a guy who is going to be thrilled about playing 41 games next year either? Fans need to realize that both of these guys are competitors and aren't going to be happy platooning the next season just because we fans would like it to be so.

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08-05-2012, 07:00 PM
  #253
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I don't think Luongo will be a problem in the room. He's got 22 guys he's been through wars with in that room, he's not going to start ****. If I'm Luongo, I realize there's a chance that I end up the starter in Vancouver by the end of the year. That's still my best chance to lead a team to the Cup.

BTW, was trying to bet against Florida making the playoffs...noticed that we're ranked 4th favorites to win the Cup (behind PIT, LAK, NYR - in that order), FLA is tied for 23rd/24th favorites with Montreal.

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08-05-2012, 07:05 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
All in all, with Luongo turning 34 late next season, you could argue that his expected time frame for remaining a top 10 goalie is another 2-4 years at best. Sure he could extend that a bit longer but that would probably be the anomaly, not the expectation. We may have already started to see some slippage in his game, with his save% ranking 12th and GAA ranking 16th last season. Not bad by any stretch, but hardly fit the "elite" label anymore.
His save% was his 6th best out of 12 years in the NHL and 3rd best in the last 5 years...couldn't have a more normal season save% wise if he wanted to.

Kind of grasping at straws here I think, espeically considering that I think our team wasn't nearly as focused last year as in prior years (which is reflected by the fact that his GAA was the 2nd highest its been since he got to Vancouver but better than 1 year and within 0.07 of two other years - out of 6).

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08-05-2012, 08:32 PM
  #255
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At the end of last season Gillis still had enough players returning this season to field another strong team but he identified four areas that needed or will need improvement to make the Canucks a better team then the last two seasons. Those needs were:

1. To insert youth and size in our forward lines. This Gillis started improving at the trade deadline with Booth and Kassian.

2. To somehow retain Luongo and Schneider as together they make up a dominant elete goalie force or if one is traded acquire a forward or defenseman who will compensate for the reduction in our overall strength in goal (neither Luongo or Schneider alone is equal to the two todether). Unless we get compensation good enough to compensate for the loss of either Schneider or Luongo, trading either does not improve the team and there is no need to trade either just to make a trade. I believe Gillis' preference is to keep both and so far that is what is happening. If Schneider is destined to be the Canucks #1 goalie, I'd much rather have Luongo there to take over should it turn out Schneider really isn't as good as we thought.

3. To acquire another top 4 defenseman. We have already acquired Garrison and Gillis is on record that the team made a pitch to acquire Suter, Weber and Schultz. With Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler, Garrison, Ballard, Tanev, Connauton and Alberts the Canucks already have a hard hiting, mobile top 8 defense that most teams would be proud of.

4. To acquire another top 6 power forward or sniper. The Canucks really never had a chance to get Parise or Nash, but Gillis is solidly in the running for Doan and if we don't it just makes for an interesting fight between Higgins, Raymond, Schroeder, Kassian and Jensen for that 6th top 6 roster spot.

In my opinion I hope neither of our goalies are traded until Schneider has proven he can handle a full year as the Canucks #1 goalie. If not, then I would rather trade Schneider than Luongo, even though contrary to the opinion of many HF fans, I think the trade return to the Canucks for Schneider will be less than what the team would get for Luongo. GM's know what they will get if they acquire Luongo. With Schneider they can only speculate and GMs are far less prone to speculate then are HF fans.
Amen brotha. Finally, someone with some perspective.

A manager (GM), is not going to trade an asset unless the return brings in more value than the outgoing asset. If would be different if a manager 'had' to trade an asset, or if this asset was a UFA next yr (a la Stahl), or a team needs cap space. Gillis situation does not fit into any of these categories.

I also firmly believe Gillis preference is to keep both goaltenders for next season. For years, we've heard him talk about the need for 2 great goaltenders in the current NHL. It's too competitive, and injuries happen. Look at Boston and St. Louis last yr, what would have happened if they both didn't have 2 great goalies. They'd be screwed. I don't want to see Vancouver in a scenario where one goalie gets injured or struggles and they're screwed. In the western conference, a team would be hard pressed to make the playoffs in that scenario. In terms of cap value, a team is better of with a $9.3M tandem of goaltending than acquiring assets that don't make your team better.

I think the Canucks have one of the best d-cores in the league. Yes, they don't have a Chara. But they have 5 defenseman (Bieksa, Hamhuis, Garrison, Tanev, Edler) who can play tough minutes with solid underlying numbers. Most teams have 2, maybe 3 d-men who can play tough minutes, the rest have to be sheltered or used in specific roles to compensate for their inabilities. If there's a current need on the Canucks, its upfront and down the middle.

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08-05-2012, 11:16 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
His save% was his 6th best out of 12 years in the NHL and 3rd best in the last 5 years...couldn't have a more normal season save% wise if he wanted to.

Kind of grasping at straws here I think, espeically considering that I think our team wasn't nearly as focused last year as in prior years (which is reflected by the fact that his GAA was the 2nd highest its been since he got to Vancouver but better than 1 year and within 0.07 of two other years - out of 6).

I just gave his numbers in the context of other goalies last year and if you want to say he was "elite" then you have to allow that there were a LOT of elite goalies last year. And funny how you cut him slack because the Canucks weren't "focussed" last year. So what happens if he goes to a team like Florida that, even at their best, aren't as good as an un-focussed Canucks team? Is he even "elite" any longer then?

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08-06-2012, 12:03 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
I just gave his numbers in the context of other goalies last year and if you want to say he was "elite" then you have to allow that there were a LOT of elite goalies last year. And funny how you cut him slack because the Canucks weren't "focussed" last year. So what happens if he goes to a team like Florida that, even at their best, aren't as good as an un-focussed Canucks team? Is he even "elite" any longer then?
Luongo looked great from November on last year. His numbers took a bit of a hit because he got off to a slow start and the team played really bad on a lot of nights. IMO Luongo has made improvements over the last couple seasons and is a better goalie now. It's a good thing the teams we are dealing with are going to watch him play rather than just look at his numbers before deciding if they want him. We may have become accustom to great goaltending but I bet Lu is going to look pretty impressive to Brian Burke & co.

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08-06-2012, 12:07 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Luongo looked great from November on last year. His numbers took a bit of a hit because he got off to a slow start and the team played really bad on a lot of nights. IMO Luongo has made improvements over the last couple seasons and is a better goalie now. It's a good thing the teams we are dealing with are going to watch him play rather than just look at his numbers before deciding if they want him. We may have become accustom to great goaltending but I bet Lu is going to look pretty impressive to Brian Burke & co.
What does Burke care? He's got Reimer and Scrivens.

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08-06-2012, 12:36 AM
  #259
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I just gave his numbers in the context of other goalies last year and if you want to say he was "elite" then you have to allow that there were a LOT of elite goalies last year. And funny how you cut him slack because the Canucks weren't "focussed" last year. So what happens if he goes to a team like Florida that, even at their best, aren't as good as an un-focussed Canucks team? Is he even "elite" any longer then?
Sorry, I don't think of players based on one year. YOU took your sample based on one year, I simply said his last year was not a terrible season. The main reason that I consider Luongo, Lundqvist, and Quick in my top echelon of goalies is because they are consistently good to great, it's why guys like Ward, Price, Miller, and Bryz are not on my list.

Luongo has already shown what he can do on a terrible team, his best save% ever came on a terrible Florida team.

Would you take Brian Elliot over Henrik Lundqvist? That's what your logic would have you do, Elliot was first in both GAA and Save% last year. I woudln't.

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08-06-2012, 05:15 AM
  #260
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Just put yourself in Luongo's shoes for a second...imagine how you'd feel during that meeting with Gillis...

"So Roberto, we have no intention of keeping you, but so far the team you'll eventually wind up on isn't willing to give us enough value so we're going to keep you until they do. Yes, of course more value to us will mean the team you end up on is weaker, but you're a team guy right.

While we wait, we want you to play every second game for us, stay focused, win us some games. You won't be with us come playoffs, and you might even end up traded to a team we're competing with for playoff positioning, but just stay professional and play at the top of your game.

Now when the media asks you every day (and they will) when a trade is coming, how you feel being a lame duck goalie, how you'll feel about going to a team that initially didn't think you were worth the cost of acquiring, etc just stay focused, don't make any 'pump your tire' type comments and don't be a distraction. Same goes for every other member of the organization.

And oh yeah, at some point in the middle of the season we will be trading you so you'll have to pack up and relocate, probably just in time for the home stretch. It means you won't have any time to get used to your new location or to bond and build chemistry with your new teammates. You're cool with this?"

Luongo:"Yeah, um, no. Go eff yourself."

"But you said you'd do anything to help the team?!?!?"

There's no way Luongo goes into the season as a Canuck. No way. I'm shocked there's still people that feel it could happen.
I'm surprised that this remains the minority view amongst Canucks fans.

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08-06-2012, 06:11 AM
  #261
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I'm surprised that this remains the minority view amongst Canucks fans.
I personally have no idea if Gillis or Luongo are working with a deadline.

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08-06-2012, 09:08 AM
  #262
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minority view? maybe. Except no one knows what went down at the end of the year.

Did Gillis and AV 100% decide to put their trust in Schneider? I'm not convinced they did until being forced to do so. I really do think that Luongo asked to be moved and if so, there is some expectation on him to give Gillis a good chance to allow that to happen for a decent return by providing several teams he would move to.

Not to mention Gillis can just as easily tell Luongo the eff off in same way....


Last edited by tantalum: 08-06-2012 at 10:06 AM.
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08-06-2012, 09:39 AM
  #263
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I'm surprised that this remains the minority view amongst Canucks fans.
This 'surprises' you, and other Toronto/Chicago/Florida fans, because you'd like your GM to trade for Luongo on a soft deal, that doesn't have you give up anything of real value.

Unfortunately for your GM's, Gillis clearly doesn't see it that way, and is willing to bank on two professionals acting as so, and sharing duties in the beginning of the season probably till a quarter of the way through, when a team such as Toronto, or Chicago, or your Panthers, get's desperate enough to trade for him with some real value involved.

Im surprised the majority of non-Canuck fans still think Gillis is bent-over-a-barrel in this trading process. HE'S the one with two world class goaltenders, not the other way around, and HE'S the one that ultimately makes the decision on when, and whether, he goes elsewhere.

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08-06-2012, 10:09 AM
  #264
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minority view? maybe. Except no one knows what went down at the end of the year.

Did Gillis and AV 100% decide to put their trust in Schneider? I'm not convinced they did until being forced to do so. I really do think that Luongo asked to be moved and if so, there is some expectation on him to give Gillis a good chance to allow that to happen for a decent return by providing several teams he would move to.

If Lu doesn't want to start the season with VAN, he must expand his list. Otherwise, he must be prepared to be a Canuck. If he insists on FLA, then they can keep offering poor value... The beginning of the season will put pressure on all parties to grease the wheels a bit. But it isn't a hard deadline -- not by the rules anyways.

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08-06-2012, 10:22 AM
  #265
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This 'surprises' you, and other Toronto/Chicago/Florida fans, because you'd like your GM to trade for Luongo on a soft deal, that doesn't have you give up anything of real value.

Unfortunately for your GM's, Gillis clearly doesn't see it that way, and is willing to bank on two professionals acting as so, and sharing duties in the beginning of the season probably till a quarter of the way through, when a team such as Toronto, or Chicago, or your Panthers, get's desperate enough to trade for him with some real value involved.

Im surprised the majority of non-Canuck fans still think Gillis is bent-over-a-barrel in this trading process. HE'S the one with two world class goaltenders, not the other way around, and HE'S the one that ultimately makes the decision on when, and whether, he goes elsewhere.
Let's try this another way: would you, as a fan, be fine with Luongo never being traded and retiring a Canuck, not because he necessaily wins back the starting job, but because potentially no team will surrender the assets Gillis seeks? And, furthermore, if Luongo remains, how do you think that affects Schneider's willingness to re-sign three summers from now? Keep in mind that I am not attacking you or your team with these questions, but just trying to get some insight.

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08-06-2012, 10:43 AM
  #266
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Let's try this another way: would you, as a fan, be fine with Luongo never being traded and retiring a Canuck, not because he necessaily wins back the starting job, but because potentially no team will surrender the assets Gillis seeks? And, furthermore, if Luongo remains, how do you think that affects Schneider's willingness to re-sign three summers from now? Keep in mind that I am not attacking you or your team with these questions, but just trying to get some insight.
It really doesn't matter what Schneider's willingness to resign three years from now is. He signed a contract with full knowledge that either Luongo was going to be definitely gone, or possibly still be around, and Im guessing he signed it knowing that Luongo might possibly still be around. Otherwise, you'd think we would have heard more in the way of legitimate talk or seen a more desperate Gillis.

As it remains, it looks very, very possible that Luongo remains a Canuck into training camp and the pre-season, so you'd have to assume that two professional hockey players put aside any possible trepidation (although i doubt there's any), and get ready to start the season together.

As for Schneider? This is a business. He knows his place in this organization as well as he knows all that Luongo's done in his several years in Canucks sweaters. Gillis has said from the beginning he would trade Luongo if it helped the team. The only outlier to this mentality has been AV's "slip-up" on French radio, but he'll have to suck it up.

I just think too many people over-state the emotional aspect of these things. That stuff is for the media to get more views and listens. In the end, whether its the MLB, NHL, NFL, or NBA, sports is a business for everybody except the fans, and their only job is to win, with whoever's on their team.

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08-06-2012, 10:45 AM
  #267
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Depends on who you define as "elite" as that's a pretty subjective label, but:

- Curtis Joseph had his last really good season for Detroit in 2002-03 at age 35.

- Patrick Roy retired at age 36 but you could argue was still "elite" at the time.

- Marty Brodeur had arguably his last "elite" season back in 2007-08 at age 35 and declined to "good" for the last few years until his playoff resurgence.

- Ed Belfour finished in the top 10 for SV% in 2002-03 at age 37 and while he was still pretty good the next year, his elite days were done.

- Domenic Hasek was still pretty elite back in 2005-06 for Ottawa at age 41, so he fits your criteria of lasting until his late 30's / early 40's.


Not a very hard analysis I know but I just looked up the first 5 guys I could think of that had the "elite" label attached to them over the past decade or so. 35-37 seems to be the age where most guys started to decline from their elite status to merely "good" (or in Roy's case chose to retire). Hasek is the most obvious exception to this, but then the guy was a noted fitness freak and is the best goalie from the past few decades so he hardly counts as the norm.

All in all, with Luongo turning 34 late next season, you could argue that his expected time frame for remaining a top 10 goalie is another 2-4 years at best. Sure he could extend that a bit longer but that would probably be the anomaly, not the expectation. We may have already started to see some slippage in his game, with his save% ranking 12th and GAA ranking 16th last season. Not bad by any stretch, but hardly fit the "elite" label anymore.

The difference between Luongo and those guys is that he has never put it together in the playoffs and inspired any sort of confidence he could carry a team at any point. He may have good numbers, but he is playing behind an elite team. The canucks should be happy just to have him off their books let alone expect anything of value in return. If he was making say 4M per year, he could probably get the return that people want on the canucks side, but only if there wasn't the no trade clause.

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08-06-2012, 10:50 AM
  #268
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The difference between Luongo and those guys is that he has never put it together in the playoffs and inspired any sort of confidence he could carry a team at any point. He may have good numbers, but he is playing behind an elite team. The canucks should be happy just to have him off their books let alone expect anything of value in return. If he was making say 4M per year, he could probably get the return that people want on the canucks side, but only if there wasn't the no trade clause.
Google 06/07 Luongo. Come back and tell me if you think he's never carried a team. And i really, really hate that phrase, "playing behind an Elite team." Here's a newsflash. Luongo is a reason the team has been as Elite as it has been the past 5 years. He's a part of the teams wins as much as he is a part of their losses. So, I massively disagree with your assertion that we should just, "get him off the books," and I'm not sure exactly how 1.5 million off his contract makes it suddenly palatable to any potential suitor.

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08-06-2012, 11:12 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by gqmixmaster View Post
The difference between Luongo and those guys is that he has never put it together in the playoffs and inspired any sort of confidence he could carry a team at any point. He may have good numbers, but he is playing behind an elite team. The canucks should be happy just to have him off their books let alone expect anything of value in return. If he was making say 4M per year, he could probably get the return that people want on the canucks side, but only if there wasn't the no trade clause.


I recommend you do a search of the thread discussing the President's Trophy on this board. Note the praise and credit the goaltending received...To put it bluntly, they were the biggest reason VAN achieved the feat. Very good team, outstanding goaltending.

Lu is one of the 4 elite players on this squad.

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08-06-2012, 11:14 AM
  #270
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If Lu doesn't want to start the season with VAN, he must expand his list. Otherwise, he must be prepared to be a Canuck. If he insists on FLA, then they can keep offering poor value... The beginning of the season will put pressure on all parties to grease the wheels a bit. But it isn't a hard deadline -- not by the rules anyways.
i found it interesting that Gillis signed Schneider as easily as he did (even if $4M was a strong number for Cory)

clearly there was no "guarantee of starting" discussion ...or at least its fair to assume there wasnt. Would also assume if Cory had those qualms he would've used not signing as his only leverage to address them.

Also interesting that Cory got no NTC.

In any case, both are signed and as much as speculators from other fanbases like to imagine pressure on Gillis to make a move, I agree w the prevailing sentiment here -- it is arguably in Gillis' favor to wait rather than make a move now. After all, right now Theodore & Clemmenson are a division-winning duo. Right now, Reimer & Scrimmons are perfectly adequate. Right now, no team has starting goalie issues. Come Fall, that will almost certainly change.

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08-06-2012, 11:22 AM
  #271
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The difference between Luongo and those guys is that he has never put it together in the playoffs and inspired any sort of confidence he could carry a team at any point. He may have good numbers, but he is playing behind an elite team. The canucks should be happy just to have him off their books let alone expect anything of value in return. If he was making say 4M per year, he could probably get the return that people want on the canucks side, but only if there wasn't the no trade clause.
couldnt disagree more, and would go so far as to suggest you might not have been wathing this team for very long. If you have, you'd know that even 'elite' teams dont go very far on the backs of mediocre or worse goaltending. Teams with average defence (ie no clear #1) and hot & cold running offense certainly don't.

Goaltending is the #1 reason this team is elite, hands down.

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Originally Posted by gqmixmaster View Post
he has never put it together in the playoffs and inspired any sort of confidence he could carry a team at any point.
ths kind of selective presumption really drives me nuts. Go back and watch the Dallas series. Or the Anaheim series. Or the '11 Hawks, Preds, Sharks series and Bruins home games. Luongo has been excellent more often that not in the playoffs. Yes he had horrendous games as well, but so as Fleury, Lundquist, Miller, etc etc. And if you watched those horrendous games, you'd have seen more team meltdowns more than individual meltdowns. He desn't get lit up in Chi if Kane isnt allowed to waltz into the slot umolested, or if Mitchell doesnt give it away to Hossa ..I was at the games in Boston ..I saw Edler get turnstyled in game 3 to start the onslaught. Game 6 was on him, but otherwise ...ugh, why am i getting into this again...

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08-06-2012, 11:32 AM
  #272
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Sorry, I don't think of players based on one year. YOU took your sample based on one year, I simply said his last year was not a terrible season. The main reason that I consider Luongo, Lundqvist, and Quick in my top echelon of goalies is because they are consistently good to great, it's why guys like Ward, Price, Miller, and Bryz are not on my list.

Luongo has already shown what he can do on a terrible team, his best save% ever came on a terrible Florida team.

Would you take Brian Elliot over Henrik Lundqvist? That's what your logic would have you do, Elliot was first in both GAA and Save% last year. I woudln't.


I never said his last season was terrible either, but was it "elite"? Well unless there are 12-14 "elite" goalies every year, then no it was not. I was pointing out that, at 33 years of age, Luongo's expected shelf life of "elite" play is narrowing. Last season his numbers were closer to middle of the pack and who knows if they get better or worse next season. Has he had a great career? Absolutely. Is it a lock that he declines drastically next year? Of course not. But he will start to decline someday, and it *may* be coming sooner than some fans think.

As for your Brian Elliot question, I probably wouldn't take him over Lundqvist based on one season but then Lundqvist still finished 4th compared to Luongo's 12th. If Elliot repeats his season again, then you'd have to seriously consider it.

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08-06-2012, 11:41 AM
  #273
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+1. I couldn't agree more and can't believe such a large portion of our fan base are so optimistic (naive?) as to think that Luongo (and Schneider) are going to go for a scenario like the previous poster described. Both want to be "the guy" and have a world of options available to them. Schneider was 1 yr away from being a UFA and able to go to any team that wanted to make him their undisputed #1, yet was willing to sign a 3-year deal to stay here. You think he didn't ask Gillis what his role on the team was supposed to be? If Gillis tells him he's gonna split the season 50-50 with Luongo, you think he signs that deal? Of course not. And Luongo has already indicated he thinks it would be "best for both parties" if they parted ways. Does that sound like a guy who is going to be thrilled about playing 41 games next year either? Fans need to realize that both of these guys are competitors and aren't going to be happy platooning the next season just because we fans would like it to be so.
So what?

so they're not happy, too bad.
they are both signed and making a fortune, and they've been perfectly happy as a jennings winning duo so far.

You speculate that Schneider had some understanding with Gillis that he'd be the starter -- based on what? You expect that Gillis was guaranteeing Scheider that Luongo would be gone by X date? That's all absurd. Schneider didnt even get a NTC. he could be gone tomorrow for all he knows.

Gillis holds the cards and he will play them when it suits his timeframe, for the best result for the team.

What are you advocating, anyway? That b/c these two might not "be thrilled" about platooning that we should rush a deal and effectively minimize the best trading chip and best opportunity to improve this team for the long run?

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08-06-2012, 11:45 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
I never said his last season was terrible either, but was it "elite"? Well unless there are 12-14 "elite" goalies every year, then no it was not. I was pointing out that, at 33 years of age, Luongo's expected shelf life of "elite" play is narrowing. Last season his numbers were closer to middle of the pack and who knows if they get better or worse next season. Has he had a great career? Absolutely. Is it a lock that he declines drastically next year? Of course not. But he will start to decline someday, and it *may* be coming sooner than some fans think.

As for your Brian Elliot question, I probably wouldn't take him over Lundqvist based on one season but then Lundqvist still finished 4th compared to Luongo's 12th. If Elliot repeats his season again, then you'd have to seriously consider it.
so, of the 6-7 years of his contract he'll play, he'll be elite for maybe half and just good for the other half. That sounds like a decent deal for $5.3M if I'm an NHL GM, esp if, like the Leafs or Bolts last year, that elite keeper would ver likely have been the difference in making the playoffs.

My original point was that if you were comparing a 32-YO PPG scorer and his liklihood to come down to the 50s or something in his mid-30s, the data for goalies is not comparable.

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08-06-2012, 11:48 AM
  #275
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So what?

so they're not happy, too bad.
they are both signed and making a fortune, and they've been perfectly happy as a jennings winning duo so far.
ha!

Name one all star NHL player that has just taken "tough talk" from management when he's wanted out?

Tough talk wont scare Luongo's agent. If Luongo wants out, he's outta here, no matter what the return is. That is the way it is with All Star athletes.

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