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Match throwing in Badminton

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Old
08-02-2012, 07:14 AM
  #76
Corto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckyeah View Post

Instead of this China team hitting the mitton (or whatever its called) into the net, could they just have forefited that match citing feeling ill?

Seems to me that by losing this particular match on purpose, they were setting themselves up to be in better position to win the gold, im not sure how that's 'throwing' the match, its not like they were trying to put themselves in a worse position going forward to cash some kind of wager.
Exactly.

The entire thing is silly IMO.... And yes, them forfeiting due to some mysterious one-day injury might have been a solution.

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Old
08-02-2012, 08:41 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckyeah View Post
Is there a difference between this and NFL teams resting players in the final week of the season because they don't need the game? Or, a basketball player fouling an opponent because by committing a 'penalty' his team can benefit from it.


I'm sure there must be a difference because of all the outrage on this thread, i'm just not sure what it is.

Instead of this China team hitting the mitton (or whatever its called) into the net, could they just have forefited that match citing feeling ill?

Seems to me that by losing this particular match on purpose, they were setting themselves up to be in better position to win the gold, im not sure how that's 'throwing' the match, its not like they were trying to put themselves in a worse position going forward to cash some kind of wager.
They rest their stars, but they don't watch running backs run by them and not bother to stop them. If you can't tell the difference between taking it easy on an opponent and deliberately trying to lose, then I can't help you.

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Old
08-02-2012, 09:54 AM
  #78
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What really screwed the China team over is that their opponent were trying to lose also. If the other team was playing to win, they clearly don't look as bad, they can simply whiff on some shots here and there and nobody notices a thing.

Teams playing to lose to avoid a stronger matchup happens all the time (Didn't Peter Forsberg mention that Team Sweden threw away a game in 2006 to avoid playing Canada in the quarters?). TWO teams playing to lose to avoid that opponent is ridiculous though.

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08-02-2012, 09:57 AM
  #79
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For those saying "is this any different then..."

The difference is that this is so far over the line and is completely obvious

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Old
08-02-2012, 10:00 AM
  #80
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I think the only solution to this is either having 3 team groups, or have only 1 team advance after group stage.

Or even eliminate group play altogether.

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08-02-2012, 10:14 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHUK View Post
The Japanese football team set out tactics based on not losing they didn't try to lose the game.

The badminton teams all set out to lose.

So the difference is one team tried not to lose, the others tried to lose...
The Japanese team didn't try to lose that game because they have fallen to 3rd in the group, lose any travel advantage, and risk getting eliminated altogether. They intentionally tried not to score against one of the weakest teams in the tournament. The badminton teams didn't have the option to park the bus and settle for the tie.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/yan...tanked-in-2010

Couple of years ago the Yankees intentionally tanked their last 2 games to give away their division so they would end up with an easier draw vs the Twins.

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Old
08-02-2012, 11:44 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckyeah View Post
Seems to me that by losing this particular match on purpose, they were setting themselves up to be in better position to win the gold, im not sure how that's 'throwing' the match, its not like they were trying to put themselves in a worse position going forward to cash some kind of wager.
What a fascinating post...

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Old
08-02-2012, 12:43 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckyeah View Post
Is there a difference between this and NFL teams resting players in the final week of the season because they don't need the game? Or, a basketball player fouling an opponent because by committing a 'penalty' his team can benefit from it.


I'm sure there must be a difference because of all the outrage on this thread, i'm just not sure what it is.

Instead of this China team hitting the mitton (or whatever its called) into the net, could they just have forefited that match citing feeling ill?

Seems to me that by losing this particular match on purpose, they were setting themselves up to be in better position to win the gold, im not sure how that's 'throwing' the match, its not like they were trying to put themselves in a worse position going forward to cash some kind of wager.
The problem with your examples is that in all of the aforementioned cases the team was trying to improve their chances.

The Chinese team was far and away the best in the world. There was no need for them to have tried to throw any matches. They had only ever lost one match to a non-Chinese team purportedly.

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Old
08-02-2012, 03:02 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckyeah View Post
Is there a difference between this and NFL teams resting players in the final week of the season because they don't need the game? Or, a basketball player fouling an opponent because by committing a 'penalty' his team can benefit from it.
Are you serious? Yes, the difference is massive. For the NFL example, the team is making a calculated strategy to remain healthy, not intentionally lose a game. The players on the field are still busting their butts off to try to win. For the basketball example, it's intentionally committing fouls as per a pretty well-established basis to increase your own time in control of the ball to try to win. Again, this is trying to win the game you're in.

The badminton example is wholly different as it's throwing a game. The better example would be if the NFL team didn't play their best guys and proceeded to intentionally throw interceptions and let them run them back for pick sixes on every play. If a team did that, then you'd better believe that the NFL would drop a massive hammer down on them.

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Old
08-02-2012, 09:56 PM
  #85
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The Chinese, culturally, have a different interpretation of "cheating". I'm not saying the western worlds interpretation is better. I'm just acknowledging that there IS a difference in interpretation.

The Chinese don't believe in what the west calls 'sportsmanship'. In china, you do what's needed to win within the written definitions of the rules. Period.

In the Chinese mentality, if it's smarter to lose that match in order to likely get a better medal, then why on earth wouldn't they try and lose? From their perspective, it's the smart thing to do.

Korea, Japan, and the rest of the eastern world have generally adapted to the 'western' interpretation of cheating. They believe in sportsmanship. I think Korea was frustrated with what they saw china doing, and decided to adapt to that level.

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Old
08-02-2012, 11:22 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
The Chinese, culturally, have a different interpretation of "cheating". I'm not saying the western worlds interpretation is better. I'm just acknowledging that there IS a difference in interpretation.

The Chinese don't believe in what the west calls 'sportsmanship'. In china, you do what's needed to win within the written definitions of the rules. Period.

In the Chinese mentality, if it's smarter to lose that match in order to likely get a better medal, then why on earth wouldn't they try and lose? From their perspective, it's the smart thing to do.

Korea, Japan, and the rest of the eastern world have generally adapted to the 'western' interpretation of cheating. They believe in sportsmanship. I think Korea was frustrated with what they saw china doing, and decided to adapt to that level.
Even if what you say is true, they definitely broke what was written in the rules of competition for the Olympics. It wasn't even just a "violating the spirit" situation.

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Old
08-03-2012, 03:45 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Are you serious? Yes, the difference is massive. For the NFL example, the team is making a calculated strategy to remain healthy, not intentionally lose a game. The players on the field are still busting their butts off to try to win. For the basketball example, it's intentionally committing fouls as per a pretty well-established basis to increase your own time in control of the ball to try to win. Again, this is trying to win the game you're in.
1988 49ers vs rams. for all intents and purposes 49ers intentionally lost that game to keep the new york giants out of the playoffs. (giants knocked them out of the playoffs twice in the previous 3 years or so)

2006 clippers vs grizzlies. grizzlies deactivated pau gasol. clippers sat sam cassell and kaman. neither wanted to win, both wanted to lose. loser received home court in the playoffs against the 3 seed nuggets.

the bush bowl. 49ers vs texans. texans qb leaves with a dubious injury. backup comes in and throws two picks, including one in overtime, clinching the number one pick for the texans.

2011/12 golden state warriors. 3 games out of the playoffs. team decides to blow it up in stead of being a fringe playoff team. if the team doesnt get the 7th pick or better they will lose the pick to utah. tank job begins. trade their star player for injured star center. tell him to not bother trying to come back. shut down their next two top players. from three games or so out of the playoffs they finish the season with a 6-26(?) record. and with some luck secured the 7th pick in the draft.

4 teams that rested their players in order to maximize their chances of losing to gain a competitive advantage. all succeed and the results ended up in their favor. (except the grizzlies.) (49ers win superbowl, texans get #1 pick, clippers beat the nuggets, warriors keep their draft pick)

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Old
08-03-2012, 10:37 AM
  #88
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You're comparing resting players with intentionally throwing a game (and being damn obvious about it, too).

There is a difference, even if you don't want to believe it.

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