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Vancouver - Chicago (Lu, Edler, Kane, Hammer)

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:43 AM
  #251
JohnHodgson
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Canucks can hold onto Luongo. I'm sure they can afford to pay 6.7 mil for a backup the next 6 years while also paying Schneider.

The most Luongo is worth is probably a 2nd rounder and maybe a prospect. Maybe some team will be desperate and give that up but not likely. The longer they hold on to him, the older he gets. Might just have to bury him in the minors or accept a 6th rounder in a year or two.
I like how you're trying to be sarcastic, but we can afford it.

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08-17-2012, 12:45 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
I like how you're trying to be sarcastic, but we can afford it.
I think he was referring to "afford" in the cap sense.

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08-17-2012, 01:10 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
I'm just curious, what are Canucks fans expecting for Luongo if he is traded?
Dreaming: A center, prospect and power forward.
Realistically: A center, prospect and pick

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08-17-2012, 01:36 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
I think he was referring to "afford" in the cap sense.
Meh, Vancouver is only paying $0.8M more for their goaltending duo of Luongo and Schneider than Nashville is paying Rinne and Mason and almost every team w/ elite goaltending is paying at least $7M for their duos.

$2M isn't exactly going to make or break the Canucks ...

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08-17-2012, 01:37 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
I think he was referring to "afford" in the cap sense.
Even then we still can afford Luongo. At worst we'd dump Ballard to a cap floor team. People act like Canucks can't afford Luongo so they have to trade him.

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08-17-2012, 02:35 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
Meh, Vancouver is only paying $0.8M more for their goaltending duo of Luongo and Schneider than Nashville is paying Rinne and Mason and almost every team w/ elite goaltending is paying at least $7M for their duos.

$2M isn't exactly going to make or break the Canucks ...
We shall see what becomes of the cap when the next CBA is hammered out. And if Schneider plays well and garners himself a bigger contract in four years, and should Luongo stick around, then Vancouver's goalie tandem is going to end up being very expensive.

Whatever the case, no team wants to pay a backup goaltender $5.3m per year. It's obviously preferable for the Canucks to move Luongo. That's why they've chosen to do so, and it's also why Luongo is listed in so many of these trade proposals. Mike Gillis is obviously not apathetic about the matter.

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08-17-2012, 03:05 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by GoodbyeLuongo View Post
No thank you.
Edler>>>>>>>>>Hjalmarsson.
And we don't want an idiot like Kane on our team
I am an Oiler fan , but have to agree with the Canucks on this one .

Plus if we look at this Lou will win you more games then Kane will .
I bet if Lou was in net for Chicago they pick up about 10 to 15 points more . My Oilers blew Chicago out twice last year because of their goalies

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Old
08-17-2012, 03:52 AM
  #258
n00bxQb
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
We shall see what becomes of the cap when the next CBA is hammered out. And if Schneider plays well and garners himself a bigger contract in four years, and should Luongo stick around, then Vancouver's goalie tandem is going to end up being very expensive.

Whatever the case, no team wants to pay a backup goaltender $5.3m per year. It's obviously preferable for the Canucks to move Luongo. That's why they've chosen to do so, and it's also why Luongo is listed in so many of these trade proposals. Mike Gillis is obviously not apathetic about the matter.
I'm not saying he shouldn't be moved, but if the Canucks are forced to hold onto him for a few more months or even a year, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

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08-17-2012, 02:30 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
I'm not saying he shouldn't be moved, but if the Canucks are forced to hold onto him for a few more months or even a year, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
The likelihood of moving him for any notable return will decrease as he gets older.

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08-17-2012, 04:45 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
The likelihood of moving him for any notable return will decrease as he gets older.
A few months of age won't significantly diminish his return, if at all.

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08-17-2012, 06:13 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
A few months of age won't significantly diminish his return, if at all.
No, but a whole season might.

If he has to start the year in Vancouver, it'd be best for the Canucks to move him by the trade deadline.

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08-17-2012, 06:24 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
No, but a whole season might.

If he has to start the year in Vancouver, it'd be best for the Canucks to move him by the trade deadline.
I doubt it'll go as long as the trade deadline. My guess is a couple months tops. If Luongo actually stays up to the deadline, I'd say there's a good chance he's reclaimed the number 1 role.

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08-17-2012, 09:31 PM
  #263
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Luongo turns 34 years old during this upcoming season.

34 years old: $6,714,000 (2012-13)
35 years old: $6,714,000 (2013-14)
36 years old: $6,714,000 (2014-15)
37 years old: $6,714,000 (2015-16)
38 years old: $6,714,000 (2016-17)
39 years old: $6,714,000 (2017-18)
40 years old: $3,382,000 (2018-19)
41 years old: $1,618,000 (2019-20)
42 years old: $1,000,000 (2020-21)
43 years old: $1,000,000 (2021-22)

So you are probably looking at Luongo retiring around age 41...but when is he still a great player? Most likely he'll be a top 10 goalie for maybe 2 more years, then you have 4 more years of ELITE goalie money and a 5th year of 3.4 mil which is still substantial. This is why the Canucks haven't been able to unload him. He doesn't have great value. He has a cap hit of 5.333 until he is about 40 years old when HOPEFULLY he retires. He might start declining THIS YEAR and then you are stuck with 5 years of a bad cap hit and even worse actual salary.

Some people would argue that Luongo isn't even worth the risk for FREE. Then you have Canucks fans arguing for ridiculous returns and that just isn't going to happen. This offseason was the best time to trade Luongo but he wasn't moved. Now they will be stuck with 10 mil in goalie salary and a goalie controversy. You say that you can pay Luongo and Schneider 10 mil to be your #1 and #2 goalie but that is idiotic. You can only play 1 goalie in the playoffs so one of them becomes useless. So instead of spending 5.333 million on a player like Briere, Pominville, Elias, Cammalleri, Grabovski, ect., you will be wasting it on a backup goalie and killing your Cup chances. Oh well, I hope you do keep him honestly.

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08-17-2012, 09:38 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Luongo turns 34 years old during this upcoming season.

34 years old: $6,714,000 (2012-13)
35 years old: $6,714,000 (2013-14)
36 years old: $6,714,000 (2014-15)
37 years old: $6,714,000 (2015-16)
38 years old: $6,714,000 (2016-17)
39 years old: $6,714,000 (2017-18)
40 years old: $3,382,000 (2018-19)
41 years old: $1,618,000 (2019-20)
42 years old: $1,000,000 (2020-21)
43 years old: $1,000,000 (2021-22)

So you are probably looking at Luongo retiring around age 41...but when is he still a great player? Most likely he'll be a top 10 goalie for maybe 2 more years, then you have 4 more years of ELITE goalie money and a 5th year of 3.4 mil which is still substantial. This is why the Canucks haven't been able to unload him. He doesn't have great value. He has a cap hit of 5.333 until he is about 40 years old when HOPEFULLY he retires. He might start declining THIS YEAR and then you are stuck with 5 years of a bad cap hit and even worse actual salary.

Some people would argue that Luongo isn't even worth the risk for FREE. Then you have Canucks fans arguing for ridiculous returns and that just isn't going to happen. This offseason was the best time to trade Luongo but he wasn't moved. Now they will be stuck with 10 mil in goalie salary and a goalie controversy. You say that you can pay Luongo and Schneider 10 mil to be your #1 and #2 goalie but that is idiotic. You can only play 1 goalie in the playoffs so one of them becomes useless. So instead of spending 5.333 million on a player like Briere, Pominville, Elias, Cammalleri, Grabovski, ect., you will be wasting it on a backup goalie and killing your Cup chances. Oh well, I hope you do keep him honestly.
I suppose the idea of trading him to a cap floor team or burying him in the minors if he begins to falter didn't occur to you?

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08-18-2012, 09:43 AM
  #265
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[QUOTE=Vankiller Whale;53668613]I suppose the idea of trading him to a cap floor team or burying him in the minors if he begins to falter didn't occur to you?[/Q

Burying him in the minors may be an option,but trading him to a cap floor team just isn't going to happen.Loungo has a very short list of teams he will go to.Do you seriously believe he will allow a trade to a bottom feeder?

Many think he will accept a trade to Florida,but with Theodore and Clemmenson already there and Markstrom waiting in the wings,I don't see Florida wanting to take on that 10yr contract.

I guess those things just didn't occur to you !

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08-18-2012, 09:49 AM
  #266
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[QUOTE=krazyhawk;53675679]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I suppose the idea of trading him to a cap floor team or burying him in the minors if he begins to falter didn't occur to you?[/Q

Burying him in the minors may be an option,but trading him to a cap floor team just isn't going to happen.Loungo has a very short list of teams he will go to.Do you seriously believe he will allow a trade to a bottom feeder?

Many think he will accept a trade to Florida,but with Theodore and Clemmenson already there and Markstrom waiting in the wings,I don't see Florida wanting to take on that 10yr contract.

I guess those things just didn't occur to you !
His NTC is limited in the last few years of his contract, as he must submit at least a 5 team list in2017-2018. Between that, burying in the minors, and that he probably would retire if his play significantly declines, there's very little risk involved.

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08-18-2012, 09:54 AM
  #267
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krazyhawk- WELL SAID!!!!

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08-18-2012, 11:15 AM
  #268
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[QUOTE=Vankiller Whale;53675755]
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post

His NTC is limited in the last few years of his contract, as he must submit at least a 5 team list in2017-2018. Between that, burying in the minors, and that he probably would retire if his play significantly declines, there's very little risk involved.
What's that got to do with trading him now?? This is the 2012-13 season,you're talking 5/6yrs from now.There's still a ton of risk in trading for him NOW which is what we're discussing.Even if 2017-18 was revelant(and it's not)he still only has to choose 5 teams giving whatever team he's playing for then little leeway.

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08-18-2012, 11:23 AM
  #269
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[QUOTE=krazyhawk;53677221]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post

What's that got to do with trading him now?? This is the 2012-13 season,you're talking 5/6yrs from now.There's still a ton of risk in trading for him NOW which is what we're discussing.Even if 2017-18 was revelant(and it's not)he still only has to choose 5 teams giving whatever team he's playing for then little leeway.
The post you quoted was responding to a poster who said that no one wants Luongo even for free because of the long-term risk. I responded by saying such risk is minimal to non-existant, due to the factors I specified.

As to why he'd be traded now? He's a top 5 goalie in the NHL. If you don't want him, someone else will.

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08-18-2012, 11:31 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post

The post you quoted was responding to a poster who said that no one wants Luongo even for free because of the long-term risk. I responded by saying such risk is minimal to non-existant, due to the factors I specified.

As to why he'd be traded now? He's a top 5 goalie in the NHL. If you don't want him, someone else will.
I'm sure teams would take him, but not for anything of value, hence why he hasn't been traded. Whether you think there is no risk trading for him or not, doesn't matter, because you aren't the one paying for that ridiculous contract.

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08-18-2012, 11:37 AM
  #271
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[QUOTE=Vankiller Whale;53677427]
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post

The post you quoted was responding to a poster who said that no one wants Luongo even for free because of the long-term risk. I responded by saying such risk is minimal to non-existant, due to the factors I specified.

As to why he'd be traded now? He's a top 5 goalie in the NHL. If you don't want him, someone else will.


LOL I'm sure someone would take him for free,but noone is going to pay what Van fans want or management is likely asking.The factors you specified do nothing to minimize the risk.He is not top 5(maybe top10) and if someone wanted him he would be gone by now.

Face it,given the situation in Van with their goalies,either he goes where he wants,for less than market value,or he stays where he is.

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08-18-2012, 11:37 AM
  #272
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I'm sure teams would take him, but not for anything of value, hence why he hasn't been traded. Whether you think there is no risk trading for him or not, doesn't matter, because you aren't the one paying for that ridiculous contract.
Or perhaps the reason a trade is delayed because any or all of a) Gillis is waiting to see where Doan signs to see if we need a top-6 forward in our return or can take pure prospects and picks. b) Gillis is not confident in Schneider and believes keeping both is better for the team, at least in he short term while we see how Schneider does as starter c) Gillis wants a king's ransom, and feels that a few games into the season, teams will feel more pressure to upgrade their goaltending.

As for the risk, for a team like Chicago or Toronto, you'd have no problem sending him to the minors when he's 40, which is basically the equivalent of a 7 year contract on a reduced cap hit.

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08-18-2012, 11:45 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Or perhaps the reason a trade is delayed because any or all of a) Gillis is waiting to see where Doan signs to see if we need a top-6 forward in our return or can take pure prospects and picks. b) Gillis is not confident in Schneider and believes keeping both is better for the team, at least in he short term while we see how Schneider does as starter c) Gillis wants a king's ransom, and feels that a few games into the season, teams will feel more pressure to upgrade their goaltending.

As for the risk, for a team like Chicago or Toronto, you'd have no problem sending him to the minors when he's 40, which is basically the equivalent of a 7 year contract on a reduced cap hit.
You forgot option D. The new CBA, i have a feeling any GM considering Luongo will wait to see what if any the ramifications of Luongo's full contract are.

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08-18-2012, 11:55 AM
  #274
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You forgot option D. The new CBA, i have a feeling any GM considering Luongo will wait to see what if any the ramifications of Luongo's full contract are.
Fair enough. But the fact he hasn't been traded doesn't mean he's valueless(as I'm sure you know)

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08-18-2012, 12:00 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Fair enough. But the fact he hasn't been traded doesn't mean he's valueless(as I'm sure you know)
I've never said he was. I'll say this, IF a deal is done, it's going to be a shocker either way in terms of return.

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