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Leafs should avoid Bernier: 5 reasons

View Poll Results: Of the following goaltending options, which would be the wisest move for the Toronto
Trade for Roberto Luongo, even at a steep price 24 15.89%
Be patient with the current tandem of James Reimer and Ben Scrivens 38 25.17%
Acquire a veteran goaltender short-term at low cost 61 40.40%
Trade for Jonathan Bernier for a reasonable price 28 18.54%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:22 PM
  #76
dfunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colchar View Post
He said it about a month ago and it was in the Star and the Sun from what I remember.

I found it and here is what the article said "Eakins suggested on Friday that Ben Scrivens might not be quite ready to take the saviour’s role and could benefit from at least from another partial season in the American Hockey League."

And here is the link (scroll down to the 'Net Gain, Net Pain' part):

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/22...speedy-defence
Thanks for the link, and I didn't say you had to trust my judgement, it was an opinion. And it still doesn't give us an answer of what to do while Scrivens gets more seasoning in the A.

Maybe sign Ellis or someone to a 1 year deal, give scrivens a shot mid season and if he performs, trade Ellis? I dunno. I still don't understand how we're in a better position with Reimer and Scrivens than we were with Reimer/Gus

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08-02-2012, 02:30 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by dfunk View Post
I still don't understand how we're in a better position with Reimer and Scrivens than we were with Reimer/Gus

Because Scrivens is a better goalie than Gus. So, if necessary, ride him and Reimer and use other prospects on the Marlies.

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08-02-2012, 02:32 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Christ View Post
I would not touch Bernier if I were Leaf's management. Thus far his hype is greater than his actual on-ice play. Reimer's stats as many have pointed out are comparible if not better and playing behind what is widely considered an inferior defense to boot. While Bernier may blossom into an elite NHL goaltender, at this point Reimer looks to have just as good a chance of attaining the same status.

I think that the best course for the Leafs heading into the season is to go for an established back-up who can take over should Reimer and Scrivens suffer poor seasons.
accept that everybody and their mother neglects to acknowledge Reimer's health. he missed a 48 games last season. that is HUGE.

it's hard to swim through all the media reports of James' health mixed with Burke firmly saying that he is actively looking, and Bernier's name is being put out there. if Burke goes after a veteran back-up then i'm convinced that Burke feels that Reim's health is stable. if he risks Bernier, Lu, etc. we all know what kind of confidence he has in Transformer Optimist Reim's future.

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08-02-2012, 03:23 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DionPhaneuf3 View Post
Where you were drafted has very little to do with your potential it only shows where a certain team had you listed. Patrik Stefan was taken first overall, does that mean he had more potential and higher expectations than the sedin brothers ? no
Hindsight's 20/20, and potential and likelihood of reaching that potential have just about everything to do with draft position. The dominant drafting system is to draft the best player available, which relies on the general consensus of who has the most potential. Therefore, I'm confident in saying that Patrik Stefan was generally more highly regarded in his draft year than the Sedin twins, although that gets hazy because them wanting to play as a package screws up the rankings. But you get the point.

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Originally Posted by DionPhaneuf3 View Post
You can see a players potential with his age and his skills on the ice. Anyways the point i was making is, stats can be very unreliable and only tell half the story...you should focus more on what you can physically see out of players.
Eyes lie. Statistics don't. I'm not saying they don't have their flaws, but "I actually watch the games and therefore your argument is moot" is crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DionPhaneuf3 View Post
And from what we can see, Bernier is clearly the more athletic goalie and, he looks more promising even though Reimer has the size advantage. Bernier also has quite a bit more AHL games under his belt than Reimer does.
Again, why are you using AHL stats as the basis of your comparison when Reimer has graduated to the NHL level? I don't see too many people using Danny Briere's and Claude Giroux's QMJHL stats to identify who the better player is.

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08-02-2012, 08:03 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
Frattin for a young NHL seasoned goalie would be an amazing deal. Now who's this Bernier guy?
The one with the ring on his finger. Dare to dream.

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08-02-2012, 08:47 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
The one with the ring on his finger. Dare to dream.
You make it sound like he actually had something to do with their win.

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08-02-2012, 08:50 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
The one with the ring on his finger. Dare to dream.
Just a horrible argument.

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08-03-2012, 12:32 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Because Scrivens is a better goalie than Gus. So, if necessary, ride him and Reimer and use other prospects on the Marlies.
What's he done to warrant him being better than Gus? Gus was supposed to be a sure bet when he was at the point Scrivens is at right now - lots of good play in a lesser league but hasn't done anything worth a bag of dirt in the NHL

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08-03-2012, 12:35 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
The one with the ring on his finger. Dare to dream.
ouch

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08-03-2012, 01:18 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
The one with the ring on his finger. Dare to dream.
Right! Cause being a back up goalie on a cup winner automatically vaults you into the pantheon of the gods. Quick...who was Bernie Parent's backup for the Flyers in 74? I'm sure nobody but his mom remembers his name now, but he's got a ring just like Bernier. 2, actually. And it led to a grand total of 9 games in the next 2 years and then bye bye NHL, hello obscurity.



It was Bobby Taylor, btw.

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08-03-2012, 01:34 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by barilko05 View Post
Right! Cause being a back up goalie on a cup winner automatically vaults you into the pantheon of the gods. Quick...who was Bernie Parent's backup for the Flyers in 74? I'm sure nobody but his mom remembers his name now, but he's got a ring just like Bernier. 2, actually. And it led to a grand total of 9 games in the next 2 years and then bye bye NHL, hello obscurity.



It was Bobby Taylor, btw.
Lol....sadly....i knew that.

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08-03-2012, 06:08 PM
  #87
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Everyone has a role on a team, whether it be backup goaltender, trainer or superstar. The comment was made because the fact is, he is good enough to be the backup to an amazing goalie on the Stanley cup champs. Do you think Reimer would even be on the Kings bench if he were on that team? Odds are not too likely. That would mean Suter and the powers that be are confident enough in his abilities that if Quick were to get injured, go on a bad spell or lose confidence that he is the last line of defense. Would you honestly be comfortable with some of the suggestions being floated around if your team was a series away from lifting a cup?

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08-03-2012, 06:43 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
accept that everybody and their mother neglects to acknowledge Reimer's health. he missed a 48 games last season. that is HUGE.

it's hard to swim through all the media reports of James' health mixed with Burke firmly saying that he is actively looking, and Bernier's name is being put out there. if Burke goes after a veteran back-up then i'm convinced that Burke feels that Reim's health is stable. if he risks Bernier, Lu, etc. we all know what kind of confidence he has in Transformer Optimist Reim's future.
Reimer's health is the biggest reason behind why I hope the Leafs can land a solid veteran backup who can take over should Reimer falter. No idea if Reimer can return to form from his first season. He could get hurt again or there is the potential that he will never be the same goaltender if he did indeed suffer from a concussion. Scrivens is even more of an unproven commodity then Reimer and pinning our hopes on his shoulders should Reimer fail strikes me as a good way to miss the playoffs yet again.

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08-03-2012, 07:49 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Because Scrivens is a better goalie than Gus. So, if necessary, ride him and Reimer and use other prospects on the Marlies.
I don't know if scrivens is better than gustavsson. Scrivens has looked good, but in a small sample size. Gustavsson has done a lot more career wise. You don't just get called the best goalie outside the NHL for nothing. I think alaire messed up gustavsson.

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08-03-2012, 07:58 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Because Scrivens is a better goalie than Gus. So, if necessary, ride him and Reimer and use other prospects on the Marlies.
Gus > Scrivens at this point. Gus is more proven and more developed at this point then Scrivens. Scrivens might be a better goalie then him someday but he isn't now.

I would rather go with a Reimer/Gus duo in net then a Reimer/Scrivens duo in net this season.

Wilson killed Gus, think about this. James goes down, Gus comes in, he's a little shaky but after getting into a groove he wins 4 straight to keep us with a decent record. He gets lit up in Boston with a team in front of him that did nothing to help defensively and was replaced by Ben, who goes the next 4 games losing every single one. Gus comes back, again Shaky but gets it together, still keeps us in the hunt but then gets replaced by Reimer who clearly wasn't ready to come back. After that Wilson flip-flops back and forth and destroying both goalies confidence and we go on one of the most epic losing streaks ever.

Hopefully under Carlyle better decisions are made on who plays when.

One of the reasons Gus played so poorly last season was because he had no confidence.

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08-03-2012, 10:22 PM
  #91
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I'm starting to think that our fans don't have much confidence in a general sense. Maybe it's because they always listen to lenient parents who rip on coaches for not playing their sons enough: " You're going take take away my sons' confidence!". Meanwhile their son is not really very good.

Gus had all sorts of time and opportunity to play. He came in extremely raw. Did you even see him handle the puck (a nightmare), or his rebound control (worse)? Confidence comes with ability.


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08-03-2012, 10:34 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
The one with the ring on his finger. Dare to dream.
so does adam burish does that mean he is an all star now?

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08-03-2012, 10:43 PM
  #93
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so does adam burish does that mean he is an all star now?
When the leafs plan on trading a young valuable piece of their franchise for Adam Burish I will not make the same comment, don't come into the conversation cold

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08-03-2012, 10:50 PM
  #94
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When the leafs plan on trading a young valuable piece of their franchise for Adam Burish I will not make the same comment, don't come into the conversation cold
bernier has contributed to that kings stanley cup as burish has to the blackhawks.

Bernier is an unproven goalie we need a solid back up netminder.

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08-03-2012, 10:52 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
The one with the ring on his finger. Dare to dream.
Why don't we go after Garon while were at it. I mean, he has a ring and alll.

I don't think it even needs toi be said how illogical this argument is.

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08-04-2012, 02:43 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
Wilson killed Gus, think about this. James goes down, Gus comes in, he's a little shaky but after getting into a groove he wins 4 straight to keep us with a decent record. He gets lit up in Boston with a team in front of him that did nothing to help defensively and was replaced by Ben, who goes the next 4 games losing every single one. Gus comes back, again Shaky but gets it together, still keeps us in the hunt but then gets replaced by Reimer who clearly wasn't ready to come back. After that Wilson flip-flops back and forth and destroying both goalies confidence and we go on one of the most epic losing streaks ever.
Sounds like a lot of apologizing on behalf of a goalie who consistently let in inexcusable goals and cost us games. He had flashes of good play but he could never put together a solid stretch for us.

And we wonder why this team went into a tailspin... that game against the Devils sealed it: the team had NO confidence in him anymore after that, and clearly management didn't by letting him walk. We were in 8th place at the time and needed those two points, and he had an absolute stinker of a game. Three awful goals.

He went 1-5-2 after that game and was pulled in another game. Save percentage in those 9 games: 0.892. Jonas was never good enough.

Since 2000, 15 goaltenders have played more than Jonas Gustavsson's 107 games and had equal or worse stats. Their names: Dafoe, Irbe, Esche, Richter, Hnilicka, Brathwaite, Raycroft, Cloutier, Boucher, Shields, Tellqvist, Grahame, Aubin, Kidd.


Last edited by Duke Silver: 08-04-2012 at 02:50 AM.
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08-04-2012, 03:18 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Sounds like a lot of apologizing on behalf of a goalie who consistently let in inexcusable goals and cost us games. He had flashes of good play but he could never put together a solid stretch for us.

And we wonder why this team went into a tailspin... that game against the Devils sealed it: the team had NO confidence in him anymore after that, and clearly management didn't by letting him walk. We were in 8th place at the time and needed those two points, and he had an absolute stinker of a game. Three awful goals.

He went 1-5-2 after that game and was pulled in another game. Save percentage in those 9 games: 0.892. Jonas was never good enough.

Since 2000, 15 goaltenders have played more than Jonas Gustavsson's 107 games and had equal or worse stats. Their names: Dafoe, Irbe, Esche, Richter, Hnilicka, Brathwaite, Raycroft, Cloutier, Boucher, Shields, Tellqvist, Grahame, Aubin, Kidd.
We shall see. Gus will be a lot more effective for the Wings when he isn't getting mind****'d by Wilson and Allaire every other game.

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08-04-2012, 07:04 AM
  #98
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All true but..

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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Scrivens and Reimer might very well be complete garbage. Neither of them every had any pedigree attached to them, one guy is a 26 year old "prospect" and the other had a hot 3 and a half months a year and a half ago but was never considered to be anything.

The Leafs are junk and should be doing everything in their power to get better at every chance they have.
They may realize another bad year is in order to get a number one center through the draft.It most likely is a strike year as well.Frattin for Bernier?No thanks.

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08-04-2012, 07:09 AM
  #99
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Aren't two Reimer-like goalies better than one?

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08-04-2012, 07:51 AM
  #100
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Would much prefer to have Bernier over Reimer.

What is this nonsense about Bernier not being patient? Kid played 2 full seasons in the AHL and has been the backup for the Kings for the past 2 seasons. People will say "he has to earn his shot!". Well, how the **** is he suppose to earn it while getting 1 game every few weeks? Quick plays a very, very heavy work load. It's really hard for ANY goalie to step in and steal a job when you get that few chances.

And this trash about him not being good enough? LOL. Ridiculous. Unless all you do is boxscore watch, you'd realize that the kid has amazing talent and poise. The problem is once again the fact that he does not get any consistent starts. The only time he has seen a long string of games was 2 seasons ago near the end of the year when Quick was hurt and Bernier stepped in for 5 or 6 games and posted something like a 930sv%.

These are pretty terrible reasons listed in the OP (from the article) for not wanting Bernier.


Last edited by KapG: 08-04-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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