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Leafs should avoid Bernier: 5 reasons

View Poll Results: Of the following goaltending options, which would be the wisest move for the Toronto
Trade for Roberto Luongo, even at a steep price 24 15.89%
Be patient with the current tandem of James Reimer and Ben Scrivens 38 25.17%
Acquire a veteran goaltender short-term at low cost 61 40.40%
Trade for Jonathan Bernier for a reasonable price 28 18.54%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-04-2012, 09:03 AM
  #101
KapG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
Frattin for a young NHL seasoned goalie would be an amazing deal. Now who's this Bernier guy?
Cause Frattin and those 57 total gp are REALLY gonna get you something like that.

Here we go again with fellow fans overrating a Leafs prospect/young player and completely throwing another teams prospect/young player under the bus.

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08-04-2012, 09:14 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
Would much prefer to have Bernier over Reimer.

What is this nonsense about Bernier not being patient? Kid played 2 full seasons in the AHL and has been the backup for the Kings for the past 2 seasons. People will say "he has to earn his shot!". Well, how the **** is he suppose to earn it while getting 1 game every few weeks? Quick plays a very, very heavy work load. It's really hard for ANY goalie to step in and steal a job when you get that few chances.

And this trash about him not being good enough? LOL. Ridiculous. Unless all you do is boxscore watch, you'd realize that the kid has amazing talent and poise. The problem is once again the fact that he does not get any consistent starts. The only time he has seen a long string of games was 2 seasons ago near the end of the year when Quick was hurt and Bernier stepped in for 5 or 6 games and posted something like a 930sv%.

These are pretty terrible reasons listed in the OP (from the article) for not wanting Bernier.
So, what would you give up for Bernier, and do you think the Kings would make that deal? Most feel that his price would be relatively steep for another a pretty unproven asset.

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08-04-2012, 09:18 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
So, what would you give up for Bernier, and do you think the Kings would make that deal? Most feel that his price would be relatively steep for another a pretty unproven asset.
I'm of the belief that Bernier is going to be a very, very good player in the NHL when he gets his chance. So with that being said...

Clarke MacArthur + 3rd/4th

Scrivens + Frattin/Colborne/Ashton

Ashton + Colborne

Something along those lines. As for the Kings making the deal. I will say 50/50.

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08-04-2012, 09:29 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
I'm of the belief that Bernier is going to be a very, very good player in the NHL when he gets his chance. So with that being said...

Clarke MacArthur + 3rd/4th

Scrivens + Frattin/Colborne/Ashton

Ashton + Colborne

Something along those lines. As for the Kings making the deal. I will say 50/50.
Thing about trades, you need to look at what the other team needs. Start with some very promosing young defenders, let's say Gardiner, and go from there.

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08-04-2012, 09:31 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Thing about trades, you need to look at what the other team needs. Start with some very promosing young defenders, let's say Gardiner, and go from there.
You are hitting the bottle already this morning if you think Bernier is going to fetch Gardiner.

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08-04-2012, 09:52 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
You are hitting the bottle already this morning if you think Bernier is going to fetch Gardiner.
I'm just saying that you should look at the other teams' needs when offering trade bait, and not try to find players we need to unload, and include them in the deal like you would in a certain EA game series. The Kings have no incentive to unload Bernier, at all.

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08-04-2012, 10:02 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
I'm just saying that you should look at the other teams' needs when offering trade bait, and not try to find players we need to unload, and include them in the deal like you would in a certain EA game series. The Kings have no incentive to unload Bernier, at all.
Naw, no incentive minus the fact that he doesn't want to be on their team any longer.

The only player I included in any of the proposals that we "need" to unload would be Clarke. Even if we don't unload him it's not the end of the world.

Scrivens, Ashton, Colborne and Frattin are not pieces that we need to up and part with...I would also add Percy to the list of players I would be willing to package up to get Bernier.

Are you just trying to be cool by throwing out that EA comment? I ask because it seems to be the new shtick around the boards lately.

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08-04-2012, 10:58 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Jack Johnson is far and away from a #1 defenseman. He's TERRIBLE defensively.
You would have to think someone with a Dion Phaneuf user-name and avatar would know a lot about defensemen that are terrible defensively.

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08-04-2012, 10:59 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
Naw, no incentive minus the fact that he doesn't want to be on their team any longer.
He has one more year to go on his contract, and is an RFA after the fact. I'm sure warming the bench in exchange for a Cup ring he may never see in his career again wasn't such a bad tradeoff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KapG View Post
The only player I included in any of the proposals that we "need" to unload would be Clarke. Even if we don't unload him it's not the end of the world.

Scrivens, Ashton, Colborne and Frattin are not pieces that we need to up and part with...I would also add Percy to the list of players I would be willing to package up to get Bernier.

Are you just trying to be cool by throwing out that EA comment? I ask because it seems to be the new shtick around the boards lately.
And like the majority of the trade proposals around here, you haven't included a single player who would address the needs of the Kings (with the exception of downgrading their backup goalie). This is a notorious symptom of playing games on GM mode. This is what I want, I don't particularly know or care what the other team needs.

Also, after the hitting the bottle this morning comment, I figured the response was pretty appropriate.

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08-04-2012, 11:00 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
You would have to think someone with a Dion Phaneuf user-name and avatar would know a lot about defensemen that are terrible defensively.
The joke being that Dion Phaneuf is not terrible defensively.

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08-04-2012, 11:04 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KapG View Post
Naw, no incentive minus the fact that he doesn't want to be on their team any longer.

The only player I included in any of the proposals that we "need" to unload would be Clarke. Even if we don't unload him it's not the end of the world.

Scrivens, Ashton, Colborne and Frattin are not pieces that we need to up and part with...I would also add Percy to the list of players I would be willing to package up to get Bernier.

Are you just trying to be cool by throwing out that EA comment? I ask because it seems to be the new shtick around the boards lately.
it's true. don't worry though. it's a reflection of them and not you. the fact that they know who the makers of NHL 12 (now 13) are is a reflection of their familiarity with the game. i for one had to google "EA" to know the reference.

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08-04-2012, 11:24 AM
  #112
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I'm not trying to bash the Leafs, but I believe Bernier to a better prospect than Reimer and it's not because of their respective draft positions.

For one, we're dealing with very small sample sizes, which makes statistics difficult to use. For instance, Bernier's stock is hurt significantly by a small 4 game stretch shortly after his draft year where he had a .864 save %. While it's not fair to pick and choose someone's statistics, I keep thinking to myself that we're dealing with very small sample sizes when a 4 game stretch can have such a huge impact. If Reimer has a bad 4 game stretch, is he suddenly going to be a much worse prospect? Probably not.

I guess I also just see Bernier as being more proven prospect. It is kind of manipulative to cherry pick stats, but I consider myself justified given what was done to make the original arguments against Bernier. If you include playoffs, Reimer has player a combined 114 AHL/NHL games while Bernier has played 182. That's almost a full extra season worth of games, not to mention that he's less of an injury risk. When you're dealing with small sample sizes, I think it's important to pick the person who has proven more over a loner period, IMO.


As far as Bernier to the Leafs is concerned, I don't think the Leafs should pursue him. Even if he's better than Reimer, he's not leaps-and-bounds ahead of him, and certainly not worth the price he's going to cost. If he falters, the media will crush him. The Leafs need a proven goaltender, and there is one on the market. I don't understand how this isn't a perfect fit.

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08-04-2012, 11:36 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KapG View Post
Cause Frattin and those 57 total gp are REALLY gonna get you something like that.

Here we go again with fellow fans overrating a Leafs prospect/young player and completely throwing another teams prospect/young player under the bus.
I actually don't think that highly of Frattin. That said, it is very difficult to project the development of goaltenders so Bernier's pedigree means little. Add to that his sub-par NHL statistics as well as the fact he's demanded a trade (for the third time) and Frattin is not a fair price for Bernier.

Bernier should cost similiar to Lindback.

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08-04-2012, 11:41 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
You would have to think someone with a Dion Phaneuf user-name and avatar would know a lot about defensemen that are terrible defensively.
When you have the time to step off your high pedestal you could tell us if, and, why you think JJohnson is better than Phaneuf. If you think JJ is superior you better have a good reason why because it's going to be tough explaining why the wrong answer is right. Everyone will be waiting for your answer

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08-04-2012, 11:45 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
it's true. don't worry though. it's a reflection of them and not you. the fact that they know who the makers of NHL 12 (now 13) are is a reflection of their familiarity with the game. i for one had to google "EA" to know the reference.
You should have your own translator on HF to translate your posts from gibberish to english

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08-04-2012, 11:53 AM
  #116
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This poll needs a "trade for Luongo at a fair price" option. Am i the only one who feels Luongo makes us INSTANTLY better? And not just by a little bit either. Now i'm not condoning paying a huge price, but i would definately pay more than Komi and a 5th.

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08-04-2012, 11:57 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
This poll needs a "trade for Luongo at a fair price" option. Am i the only one who feels Luongo makes us INSTANTLY better? And not just by a little bit either. Now i'm not condoning paying a huge price, but i would definately pay more than Komi and a 5th.
The general consensus around here is something close to MacArthur + Franson + 2nd.

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08-04-2012, 12:07 PM
  #118
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The general consensus around here is something close to MacArthur + Franson + 2nd.
That's acceptable.

Something around the range of MacArthur + Franson + pick <---------------> Bozak + Colborne + pick for Luongo + Tanev.

Maybe Franson + Colborne + 2nd even.

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08-04-2012, 12:13 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
The general consensus around here is something close to MacArthur + Franson + 2nd.
I'm good with that, i'd also do a prospect type deal like Coborne/Ashton, Blacker and 2nd.

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08-04-2012, 12:14 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
That's acceptable.

Something around the range of MacArthur + Franson + pick <---------------> Bozak + Colborne + pick for Luongo + Tanev.

Maybe Franson + Colborne + 2nd even.
I'd do any of these although i don't see Van adding to Luongo.

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08-04-2012, 12:22 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
You would have to think someone with a Dion Phaneuf user-name and avatar would know a lot about defensemen that are terrible defensively.
If you check advanced stats, Dion Phaneuf is one of our best defensemen. He plays against all the other teams top lines. Jack Johnson is literally a pylon out there on defense.

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08-04-2012, 12:39 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
If you check advanced stats, Dion Phaneuf is one of our best defensemen. He plays against all the other teams top lines. Jack Johnson is literally a pylon out there on defense.
I don't even check advance stats but I do watch games and I can tell there are so much difference in each players' game.

Dion Phaneuf is heavily underrated due to the system that wilson has placed. Jack Johnson has very good potential but the problem is his defensive game needs a lot of work. His offense is beautiful though. Even Bernier would look like a vezina caliber goalie at a system like Tippett.

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08-04-2012, 12:43 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
The general consensus around here is something close to MacArthur + Franson + 2nd.
If that's all it would take, this trade should have been done months ago.

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08-04-2012, 12:59 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by IranCondraAffair View Post
If that's all it would take, this trade should have been done months ago.
I bet Gillis is asking for a 1st. I still think that's too much for Luongo: there's no way they can keep him as a backup; the market is minuscule; we're in the driver's seat.

I think if we're giving up quality prospects or roster players, a salary dump in Komisarek has to go the other way.

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08-04-2012, 01:01 PM
  #125
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I bet Gillis is asking for a 1st. I still think that's too much for Luongo: there's no way they can keep him as a backup; the market is minuscule; we're in the driver's seat.

I think if we're giving up quality prospects or roster players, a salary dump in Komisarek has to go the other way.
If Luongo is going to go for a low return, then FLA is in the "driver's seat". We would have to at least out bid their best offer.

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