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Stats say Sabres are a playoff team today

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Old
08-02-2012, 03:24 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Yes, it is. Last year you had two proven NHL centers, an experiment (Leino) and a rookie.

This year you have two sophomores, one of whom hasn't played center for more than 20 games, a failed experiment, and then no one. If Ennis and Hodgson each put up 60 points, hooray, but if Ennis is back on the wing 10 games into the season and Hodgson is centering the third line, nobody is going to be shocked.

It's tiresome how people say we're better now based on the most optimistic projections for our unproven players.
We had one proven top 6 center coming off of a catastrophic injury, a rookie, an experiment and a career 4th liner. This year looks at least as good, and 1000x more promising. How could you possbibly think more of last years group than this years?

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08-02-2012, 03:25 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I think it's also important to point out that if the organization thought injuries were an 'excuse', they wouldn't make roster changes. They'd simple say they were good enough, and got unlucky.

Their offseason moves have clearly shown that's not the case
.
How so? Trading Roy for Ott was hardly an earth-shattering move. I love what Ott brings to the table, but it doesn't change the fact that Buffalo subtracted its only proven, defensively decent center and downgraded scoring even further in the process. I had a more favorable opinion of the deal at the time, when I assumed the Sabres weren't done making changes. As it stands, Roy out, Ott and Scott in doesn't do that much to elevate the team. Are they tougher? Definitely. Better? Ehh.

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08-02-2012, 03:33 PM
  #78
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Roy scored 44 points last year, while everyone else had a down year. We'll miss his defensive play, but Ott will make up for that. I think we're in the same position as last year, so hopefully the players play better this year.

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08-02-2012, 03:33 PM
  #79
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I don't see them in 8th if the season started today, still to many questions and concerns I want to see what happens in the pre season first....

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08-02-2012, 03:37 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
We had one proven top 6 center coming off of a catastrophic injury, a rookie, an experiment and a career 4th liner. This year looks at least as good, and 1000x more promising. How could you possbibly think more of last years group than this years?
More promising, maybe. As good? Not until proven so. Roy was a guy who had put up 35 points in 35 games the year before, had reached 70-80 points the previous 3 seasons, and we had no idea then that the injury would linger. I went into last year thinking Roy was ready to hit his prime, as were most, I think.

Gaustad may be a fourth liner on a contender, but he didn't play that role here. He was a #3C here, and even occasionally played PP minutes. He would be again if he were here - hell, I'd wager he'd spend time in the top 6 this year if he were still a Sabre.

Is this year's group promising? Sure, and so is every other 18-22 year old player.

Is this year's group good? Not yet. Not unless Ennis can play a full year at his new position. Not unless he can best his career high of 49 points. Not unless Hodgson improves his skating and shows he can play regularly in the top 6, which he's only had to do sparingly. Not unless somebody on the fourth line steps up and looks real good doing it. If the only thing you had to do to "get better" at a position was throw out the players who've hit their ceilings and bring in a bunch of rookies who've never been tested, we'd be looking real good. Unfortunately, there's a big gap between potential and reality, and that's where 75% of kid in Hodgson's and Ennis' shoes fall between age 18 and 25.

Of course this year's group is more promising, if you're looking in hindsight. **** on a stick is more promising than last year's failures.


Last edited by haseoke39: 08-02-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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Old
08-02-2012, 03:46 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Definitely doesn't help that the bulk of the injuries were all at the same time too. We went about a month regularly dressing 8-9 AHL players. Name one team in the league with enough depth to succeed without their starting goalie, top 2 defenders, and 5-6 other regulars. (I don't think there are any.)
To say injuries are just an "excuse" basically amounts to saying the team should win no matter the quality of the players playing for it. Which, to be clear, is ****ing absurd.
Problem with your statement, is that the guys who were brought up to play were the best guys on the team, sans Pomms/Vanek. The young guys came up and injected us with a shot of enthusiasm. AGAIN, this team crumbled after the LUCIC INCIDENT. I'd bet anything that it caused an internal riff between guys in the locker room. We had 3 guys on the ice who wore a letter and not one of them did a damn thing....

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08-02-2012, 03:53 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Why didn't the Sabres make the playoffs?
- They had a lot of lesser talent players in the lineup because of injuries.
- Many uninjured players didn't perform to their expectations and abilities.
- Their goaltending was occasionally not up to par.
- Their team toughness was suspect.

ALL of those factors contributed to their final record. The problem is that some people, including you, see anything referring to injuries, and you lose your damn mind, ignoring any other point that was made.

Injuries ARE a factor. They're not the ONLY factor like you seem to accuse people of thinking, but they ARE a factor.
I believe in the "standard is the standard" philosophy. And I think you build a winning franchise with that type of belief.

Yes, I lose my mind when an average team blames their average season on injuries

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08-02-2012, 03:56 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
We had one proven top 6 center coming off of a catastrophic injury, a rookie, an experiment and a career 4th liner. This year looks at least as good, and 1000x more promising. How could you possbibly think more of last years group than this years?
And now we have zero proven top 6 centers

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08-02-2012, 04:10 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
And now we have zero proven top 6 centers
Coming off that knee injury he was just as big of a question mark as either of these two.

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08-02-2012, 04:17 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Dr. Zoidberg View Post
Exactly. And Ruff is the king at making excuses for his team. With that said, I think the organization has more intestinal fortitude now (which I attribute more to Pegula's influence than a fundamental change for Ruff and Regier).


And the funny part is ...when Ruff doesn't make excuses like holding his players accountable .... He gets ripped on for calling his players out in public ....

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08-02-2012, 04:51 PM
  #86
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This thread is good proof of who is drinking the Kool-Aid.

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08-02-2012, 04:55 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
This thread is good proof of who is drinking the Kool-Aid.
Realizing injuries played a significant role in missing the playoffs ='s Drinking Kool-Aid? ...

Hmm. Interesting.

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08-02-2012, 07:35 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Better Call Saul View Post
How so? Trading Roy for Ott was hardly an earth-shattering move. I love what Ott brings to the table, but it doesn't change the fact that Buffalo subtracted its only proven, defensively decent center and downgraded scoring even further in the process. I had a more favorable opinion of the deal at the time, when I assumed the Sabres weren't done making changes. As it stands, Roy out, Ott and Scott in doesn't do that much to elevate the team. Are they tougher? Definitely. Better? Ehh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY View Post
I don't see them in 8th if the season started today, still to many questions and concerns I want to see what happens in the pre season first....
I'm on this side of the fence - I like the culture changes that will come from more combative additions like Ott/Scott and the youthful enthusiasm of Ennis, Hodgson, Foligno and McNabb but I'm not confident that it will ultimately result in a better result next spring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
I think we're in the same position as last year, so hopefully the players play better this year.
I think everyone wishes the "hope tank" to stay full and that things will work out as planned....

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08-02-2012, 07:44 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Realizing injuries played a significant role in missing the playoffs ='s Drinking Kool-Aid? ...

Hmm. Interesting.
Is that what I said?

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08-02-2012, 09:07 PM
  #90
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Thinking optimistically, i give them about a 60% chance to get in. they let me down in so many ways last season it's difficult to put into words. It's mostly my fault for building myself up with Ehrhoff coming over. But I dont think i was wrong to feel that way, because he was fantastic when he played. He's better defensively than HF will ever give him credit for and his skills are just great. We got 3 really good defense men at least.

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08-02-2012, 09:41 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Thinking optimistically, i give them about a 60% chance to get in. they let me down in so many ways last season it's difficult to put into words. It's mostly my fault for building myself up with Ehrhoff coming over. But I dont think i was wrong to feel that way, because he was fantastic when he played. He's better defensively than HF will ever give him credit for and his skills are just great. We got 3 really good defense men at least.
It wasn't merely the Ehrhoff acquisition that whet your appetite. Him, Regehr, Lein_, the way they finished so strong to end the season prior....

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08-02-2012, 11:36 PM
  #92
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What a relief to discover that the statistics clearly show we are a playoff team!

Based on that, I fail to see the need of playing a regular season. Why, stats never lie! Just hand us our seed and we'll see everyone in April. k? Thanks. Bye!

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08-03-2012, 01:53 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
I agree, we need a move, maybe at the deadline. But I do agree
right. i feel like if we could just have one year where the injury bug doesn't hit too bad we could be a real cup contender. i think we stand pat until the deadline and then finally acquire a veteran center for a playoff push.

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08-03-2012, 03:20 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
1. Myers 23 games vs Pronger 73 games (Phi)
2. Ennis 34 vs JVR 41 (Push?)
3. Sekera 16 vs Meszaros 22(Push?)
4. Miller 8 vs Bryzgalov 6 (Push?)
5. Leino 11 vs Briere 12 (Phi)
6. Ehrhoff 16 vs Timmonen 7 (Buf)
7. Giroux/Schenn/Couturier/Jagr 27 vs Vanek/Roy/Boyes/Goose 27 (PHI)
McCormick (28 games)
Gerbe (20 games)
Hecht (over 60 games)

I don't know man....
I think Buffalo fans are accustomed to making excuses
Quote:
I could be wrong here, but weren't we also missing Hecht (over 60 games), Gerbe (20 games), and McCormick (28 games) for decent chunks of the season? The former two, especially, were important losses. I also think it safe to say that Miller wasn't right for a decent bit after we came back.
JAME missed over 100 games missed due to injury and Miller with a concussion. For a guy that likes facts certainly dropped the ball on that one.

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08-03-2012, 08:20 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
JAME missed over 100 games missed due to injury and Miller with a concussion. For a guy that likes facts certainly dropped the ball on that one.
so the difference between the Flyers being a contender and the Sabres missing the playoffs, was 100 games missed by Hecht, Gerbe, and McCormick?

FYI
I didn't include the 150+ games missed by Betts (85), Lilja (17), Nodl (10), Rinaldo (9), Voracek (6), Sestito (28), Gustafson (21), etc on the Flyers either


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08-03-2012, 08:36 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
And the funny part is ...when Ruff doesn't make excuses like holding his players accountable .... He gets ripped on for calling his players out in public ....
Surely you agree that you can hold your players accountable without calling them out in the press.

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Old
08-03-2012, 09:24 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Jame and the rest of the board can probably reconcile on this:

Injuries are a factor. But the level of injuries we had wasn't bad enough to take a cup contender and turn them into a 9th seed. Ergo, we weren't a cup contender, and we probably aren't a cup contender this year, either. They've added a little character, subtracted a little talent, and still figure to be in the 6-10 range.


It was argued by some that we missed the playoffs last season due to injuries. Its really not an earth shatter idea.

This isn't a shot at you just at the idea that its somehow crazy to suggest injuries played a factor in them missing the playoffs. I don't think any one is arguing that injuries cost us a run for the Cup last year.


Last edited by joshjull: 08-03-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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08-03-2012, 09:30 AM
  #98
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Yeah, the talent level between Buffalo and say Philly or Pittsburgh is large. Losses of key personnel by deeper, better teams tends to not impact the on-ice product as much as those for mid-tier or lower-tier squads. Buffalo needs to focus on acquiring their own dominant talents, increasing their depth. And yes, if they stay healthy, they're probably on the playoff side of the bubble this year.

I still think teams are going to push them hard in a physical sense and we'll find out if John Scott deters anyone from giving Miller a rough time around the crease. Anyone in the division should be looking for a competitive advantage and if I'm looking to knock a division foe down the standings, putting Enroth in net as the Sabres starter probably knocks Buffalo out of contention for the post-season.

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08-03-2012, 10:17 AM
  #99
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I asked this in the Ott thread, but it was on its last legs and never really got addressed:

Buffalo coaches knew Roy was hurt, and not just "needing to get his knee strength back" but "he tweaked his shoulder, it needs surgery to be 100%." And despite this they played him consistently as either the all situations #2 behind Adam and then the #1 when Adam slowed up, when all Derek was really good for at the time was an even strength defensive forward. Is this how it happened, or did Roy's shoulder only come into play this summer?

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08-03-2012, 10:28 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
I asked this in the Ott thread, but it was on its last legs and never really got addressed:

Buffalo coaches knew Roy was hurt, and not just "needing to get his knee strength back" but "he tweaked his shoulder, it needs surgery to be 100%." And despite this they played him consistently as either the all situations #2 behind Adam and then the #1 when Adam slowed up, when all Derek was really good for at the time was an even strength defensive forward. Is this how it happened, or did Roy's shoulder only come into play this summer?
It sounds a bit like this was longer term. I recall Roy mentioning "some guys are playing through things, hand... shoulder" during an interview back around the December slump during a between-period interview with Sylvester. Suspicion points to it being longer term.

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