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Miikka Kiprusoff to Toronto

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Old
04-13-2012, 07:22 AM
  #1
HockeyGuruPitka
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Miikka Kiprusoff to Toronto

How much would it cost Toronto? Toronto is desperate for a good goalie and a mentor for Reimer. Kiprusoff would be the perfect fit. What would it cost Toronto. This assuming there is going to be a fire sale in Calgary.

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04-13-2012, 07:49 AM
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Drake1588
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It depends on how badly Toronto wants to give up futures for players to help them in the present. Calgary will be all about futures if it rebuilds. If it doesn't rebuild, Kiprusoff is the last player they will trade. So for the purposes of this argument, it's going to be futures that Calgary covets.

Ideally, Calgary is going to want to get a 2012 first rounder plus additional good young futures. They don't expect an early first rounder. Toronto is in some ways possessed of too strong a draft pick this year. Could be problematic. What good young prospects do they have to give up?

Look at it from another perspective. Don't make it a question of, what does Toronto need to give up to land MK, but what does Calgary seek from the market for MK at this time, at this stage of the club's rebuild/contend cycle?

I don't know that Toronto has the stacked cupboard to offer strong prospects. They may not have, or be willing to deal, the young players to entice Calgary. Its first rounder is, if anything, too good this year. If Toronto isn't going to consider Gardiner for example, and I don't think they will, then it might be difficult.

If you ask me, both these teams need to focus on the draft. They need the same things. Both may be trying to compete next year, though.

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04-13-2012, 08:13 AM
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madmike77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
It depends on how badly Toronto wants to give up futures for players to help them in the present. Calgary will be all about futures if it rebuilds. If it doesn't rebuild, Kiprusoff is the last player they will trade. So for the purposes of this argument, it's going to be futures that Calgary covets.

Ideally, Calgary is going to want to get a 2012 first rounder plus additional good young futures. They don't expect an early first rounder. Toronto is in some ways possessed of too strong a draft pick this year. Could be problematic. What good young prospects do they have to give up?

Look at it from another perspective. Don't make it a question of, what does Toronto need to give up to land MK, but what does Calgary seek from the market for MK at this time, at this stage of the club's rebuild/contend cycle?

I don't know that Toronto has the stacked cupboard to offer strong prospects. They may not have, or be willing to deal, the young players to entice Calgary. Its first rounder is, if anything, too good this year. If Toronto isn't going to consider Gardiner for example, and I don't think they will, then it might be difficult.

If you ask me, both these teams need to focus on the draft. They need the same things. Both may be trying to compete next year, though.
That's a good analysis and I agree - the Flames and Leafs are not a good match. The Flames would want a mid-to-low first and a decent prospect likely.

And for the Leafs I don't see Kiprusoff making a ton of sense. He's an upgrade, but he's only going to play short-term. The Leafs are not going to be a contender short-term with or without Kiprusoff. They need a longer term solution in net.

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04-13-2012, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmike77 View Post
That's a good analysis and I agree - the Flames and Leafs are not a good match. The Flames would want a mid-to-low first and a decent prospect likely.

And for the Leafs I don't see Kiprusoff making a ton of sense. He's an upgrade, but he's only going to play short-term. The Leafs are not going to be a contender short-term with or without Kiprusoff. They need a longer term solution in net.
But goaltending was your down fall. And Dion and him probably know each others weaknesses and can build an unstoppable solution off them.

I suggest....

To Tor
Miikka Kiprusoff
5th round pick
To Cgy
1st round 2012 (5th overall)

This is probably the best deal to get kipper but it is just a suggestion so shoot me down if you need to

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04-13-2012, 08:33 AM
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SeenSchenn2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenBartschi27 View Post
But goaltending was your down fall. And Dion and him probably know each others weaknesses and can build an unstoppable solution off them.

I suggest....

To Tor
Miikka Kiprusoff
5th round pick
To Cgy
1st round 2012 (5th overall)

This is probably the best deal to get kipper but it is just a suggestion so shoot me down if you need to
Our issue pre-lockout was constantly trading young assets and first round picks for "older" assets. Kipper's probably got a few good years left in him, but not at the expense of 5th overall.

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04-13-2012, 08:38 AM
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HockeyGuruPitka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenBartschi27 View Post
But goaltending was your down fall. And Dion and him probably know each others weaknesses and can build an unstoppable solution off them.

I suggest....

To Tor
Miikka Kiprusoff
5th round pick
To Cgy
1st round 2012 (5th overall)

This is probably the best deal to get kipper but it is just a suggestion so shoot me down if you need to
Two years of a goalie isnt worth 10 years worth of assets in a 5th overal pick.

The leafs are not a bad team like most insinuate. We were a playoff team until the last month of the year. People like to point fingers and panic. The leafs were getting mediochre goaltending and were a 7th place team. IMO the leafs are the luckiest team in the league to have fallen to the 5th pick. The leafs wouldnt have been very competitive in the playoffs with poor goaltending which is why im thrilled to have that pick. Make the playoffs and get bounced or miss and get a 5th pick. Common sense there. When the goalies began Sh**ting the bed, letting in absolute wiffs of goals, the media started invading the room, the collapse went into full force. Toronto has a much better team then Calgary, if Calgary managed to be a 9th place team then Toronto surely will do better with Kiprusoff.


Carter Ashton
2nd/ Franson

But if Calgary is expecting the moon then probably not a fit. Tampa Bay may be willing to give up more assets? But they are probably looking for a young starter.. who knows.

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04-13-2012, 08:42 AM
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Phion Keneuf
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Lol. Nobody in the league would pay a 5th overall pick for a 36 year old goalie.

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04-13-2012, 08:45 AM
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Drake1588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenBartschi27 View Post
But goaltending was your down fall. And Dion and him probably know each others weaknesses and can build an unstoppable solution off them.

I suggest....

To Tor
Miikka Kiprusoff
5th round pick
To Cgy
1st round 2012 (5th overall)

This is probably the best deal to get kipper but it is just a suggestion so shoot me down if you need to
Talks are likely to fall apart because Kiprusoff is not, at this stage of his career and contract and cap hit, going to net Calgary a #5 pick.

Ideally, they find a trade partner willing to offer a pick in the #25 range, plus a prospect. If they're lucky, they get a good prospect, but more likely an OK prospect. Kiprusoff, like Iginla, gets less and less valuable the longer that Calgary puts off its rebuild. Their value has been steadily eroding.

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04-13-2012, 09:27 AM
  #9
DropIt
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Yeah, there is no way that Calgary would be getting that pick.

I think a deal around:

Carter Ashton, Brad Ross, 2nd round pick
for
Kipprusoff,, 4th round pick

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04-13-2012, 09:28 AM
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TheHudlinator
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Usually we would want a first + mid prospect but Toronto's first is to high for that so
Highly unlikely
To Toronto:
Kipper
Flames 1st (14th)
mid prospect

To Calgary:
Toronto's 1st(5th)

Or

To Toronto:
Kipper

To Calgary
Franson
Colborne
+3rd

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Old
04-13-2012, 09:47 AM
  #11
madmike77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenBartschi27 View Post
But goaltending was your down fall. And Dion and him probably know each others weaknesses and can build an unstoppable solution off them.

I suggest....

To Tor
Miikka Kiprusoff
5th round pick
To Cgy
1st round 2012 (5th overall)

This is probably the best deal to get kipper but it is just a suggestion so shoot me down if you need to
I'm actually a Flames fan first and Leafs fan second.

I'm fine with the Flames dealing Kiprusoff - it's an ideal time to do it given his age, contract and his solid performance this past season. I just don't think it makes any sense at all for the Leafs.

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Old
04-13-2012, 10:07 AM
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veedubn1
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hmmmm... the Leafs trading away young assets for a guy approaching 40... where have I seen this before?

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04-13-2012, 10:18 AM
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Perro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeenSchenn2 View Post
Our issue pre-lockout was constantly trading young assets and first round picks for "older" assets. Kipper's probably got a few good years left in him, but not at the expense of 5th overall.
Pre- lock out Toronto was a playoff team. Just saying maybe something to that.

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Old
04-13-2012, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
This assuming there is going to be a fire sale in Calgary.
why is that even being assumed. It's widely speculated that the Flames announced Sutter wouldn't be returning as coach because Sutter wanted the Flames to tear it down and start from scratch but the ownership and management doesn't want a full scale rebuild.

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04-13-2012, 10:30 AM
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why is that even being assumed. It's widely speculated that the Flames announced Sutter wouldn't be returning as coach because Sutter wanted the Flames to tear it down and start from scratch but the ownership and management doesn't want a full scale rebuild.
How pig headed do you have to be when the head coach, the whole city, and most hockey columist say a rebuild is required and that this core has run it's course, but yet you refuse to make the changes.
Sadly the flames will be forced to rebuild once Iggy and Kipper sign eslewhere.

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04-13-2012, 11:32 AM
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How pig headed do you have to be when the head coach, the whole city, and most hockey columist say a rebuild is required and that this core has run it's course, but yet you refuse to make the changes.
Sadly the flames will be forced to rebuild once Iggy and Kipper sign eslewhere.
Sadly, this is the situation I see as well.

The city, the fans, the sports experts all see that we'll need to start re-building.

It's unfortunate that the people running the asylum don't seem to see that, when everyone else does. I also believe that fans will be accepting of a re-build, as long as they come out and be honest about it.

This should be an interesting summer for sure to see which direction the Calgary Flames go. That said, it's undeniable that Kiprusoff is one of our best trading chips at the moment, even if most of us know he's the team's MVP and don't want to see him moved.

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04-13-2012, 11:51 AM
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Sadly, this is the situation I see as well.

The city, the fans, the sports experts all see that we'll need to start re-building.

It's unfortunate that the people running the asylum don't seem to see that, when everyone else does. I also believe that fans will be accepting of a re-build, as long as they come out and be honest about it.

This should be an interesting summer for sure to see which direction the Calgary Flames go. That said, it's undeniable that Kiprusoff is one of our best trading chips at the moment, even if most of us know he's the team's MVP and don't want to see him moved.
you don't drop your average age in the "rankings" if you aren't rebuilding. You can rebuild without selling your best assets.

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04-13-2012, 11:52 AM
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you don't drop your average age in the "rankings" if you aren't rebuilding. You can rebuild without selling your best assets.
sorry drop about 10 spots

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04-13-2012, 11:56 AM
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you don't drop your average age in the "rankings" if you aren't rebuilding. You can rebuild without selling your best assets.
I am well aware of that. Just look at Ottawa.

However, that doesn't mean that our best trading chips aren't still Kiprusoff, Iginla and Giordano. One of those players could find themselves the odd man out if we're looking at acquiring assets.

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04-13-2012, 11:59 AM
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I could see a fit but not at the value you think. TO could use Kipper to mentor Reimer but NOT at the cost of thier first rounder.


Last edited by IceDaddy: 04-13-2012 at 12:13 PM.
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04-13-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
I am well aware of that. Just look at Ottawa.

However, that doesn't mean that our best trading chips aren't still Kiprusoff, Iginla and Giordano. One of those players could find themselves the odd man out if we're looking at acquiring assets.
I think Kipper will be traded this offseason especially if Chicago doesn't get out of the first round. We will most likely sign a veteran goalie to play with Irving and see what happens.

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04-13-2012, 12:16 PM
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kipper would be great but as much as i want him in toronto he would be much better off going to a team who is on the cusp of competing for a cup. toronto is a good 3-5 years away if not more.

id think a team like chicago would make a way better fit. kipper could be the difference in them going deep, in toronto he would help but he would just be a bandaid

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04-13-2012, 12:19 PM
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Personally I'd like Kadri.

I'd consider doing that straight up as I think Irving is NHL ready and Kadri is already developed.

Not super interested in (B level prospect) + 2nd

I think with Kiprusoff the Leafs are not only a playoff team, but a contender. (As long as their defence can play up to the way they stack up on paper, and Kulemin bounces back)

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04-13-2012, 12:26 PM
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kipper would be great but as much as i want him in toronto he would be much better off going to a team who is on the cusp of competing for a cup. toronto is a good 3-5 years away if not more.

id think a team like chicago would make a way better fit. kipper could be the difference in them going deep, in toronto he would help but he would just be a bandaid
Totally agree, I think Chicago is the best fit for both Calgary and the Hawks. Kipper gives them a legit top tier keeper and are positioned in the standings and with assets to give Calgary what they would need coming back. Would these 2 teams consider this deal

To Calgary: Crawford, Hawks 1st 2012, Morin

To Chicago: Kipper, Ramage

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04-13-2012, 12:32 PM
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Totally agree, I think Chicago is the best fit for both Calgary and the Hawks. Kipper gives them a legit top tier keeper and are positioned in the standings and with assets to give Calgary what they would need coming back. Would these 2 teams consider this deal

To Calgary: Crawford, Hawks 1st 2012, Morin

To Chicago: Kipper, Ramage
Sold !!

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