HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Notices

St. Louis Blues Top Prospect #5

View Poll Results: #5
Jake Allen, G 38 74.51%
Jordan Schmaltz, D 2 3.92%
Brett Ponich, D 2 3.92%
Jani Hakanpaa, D 6 11.76%
Sam Kurker, RW 1 1.96%
Cade Fairchild, D 2 3.92%
Philip McRae, C 0 0%
Joel Edmunson, D 0 0%
MacKenzie MacEachern, LW 0 0%
Sebastian Wannstrom, RW 0 0%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-02-2012, 09:20 AM
  #1
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 5,800
vCash: 500
St. Louis Blues Top Prospect #5

Defenseman Ian Cole takes the #4 spot with 75.61% of the vote

Top Prospects
#1 Vladimir Tarasenko, RW, 6'0, 191, 12/13/1991
#2 Jaden Schwartz, LW, 5'9, 179, 6/25/1992
#3 Ty Rattie, RW, 6'0, 167, 2/5/1993
#4 Ian Cole, D, 6'1, 225, 2/21/1989

Please vote and also comment on who you'd like the next addition to the list to be. (I'm currently planning on adding Jaskin next)

bluesfan94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 10:07 AM
  #2
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
If I could only keep one of these guys, it would be Hakanpaa. He'd be the one I'd least like to see traded.

PocketNines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 10:11 AM
  #3
MattyMo35
Moderator
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 5,852
vCash: 1598
I was tempted last time, and this time I actually did pull the trigger. Sam Kurker.

MattyMo35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 10:23 AM
  #4
Memento
Missourian.
 
Memento's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Country: United States
Posts: 56
vCash: 500
Jake Allen has number one goalie potential and is closer to making it than any of the others on the list. I'm going with him.

Memento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 10:48 AM
  #5
STLBLUES44
MILLER TIME
 
STLBLUES44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,341
vCash: 500
you could maybe add lehtera next

STLBLUES44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 10:53 AM
  #6
STL fan in IA
Registered User
 
STL fan in IA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,782
vCash: 500
Easy vote for Allen form me here. It gets a lot more wide open after this though IMO.

STL fan in IA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 11:04 AM
  #7
CarvinSigX
Registered User
 
CarvinSigX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 7,280
vCash: 2370
I was tempted to go with Hakanpaa, but Allen's upside and North American pro game sample size is larger in comparison. My opinion could change depending on how well his game translates this year in Peoria.

CarvinSigX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 11:11 AM
  #8
Bluesnatic27
Registered User
 
Bluesnatic27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 374
vCash: 500
Allen for me, closest to being NHL ready, and has shown some very impressive skills in Peoria and his times in the World Juniors. If nothing else, a very nice trade piece that I would rather hold onto then get rid of

Bluesnatic27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 11:20 AM
  #9
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
For the record, it was only one game but Allen's dismal performance at World Juniors literally cost Canada a gold medal. Got lit up in the Spengler Cup too. He's not been all that impressive in Peoria. Started off terrible last year, did ok right after Bishop got traded but then crapped a bit down the stretch and Peoria missed the playoffs.

In fairness, I wouldn't rank goalies in a list with skaters just on principle. The vast majority are touted before disappearing entirely.

PocketNines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 11:48 AM
  #10
Izzy
Moderator
#SloveniaForGold2018
 
Izzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,954
vCash: 270
Jake Allen. Probably could be a backup next year if it wasn't for the current situation.

Izzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 12:38 PM
  #11
STL fan in IA
Registered User
 
STL fan in IA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
For the record, it was only one game but Allen's dismal performance at World Juniors literally cost Canada a gold medal. Got lit up in the Spengler Cup too. He's not been all that impressive in Peoria. Started off terrible last year, did ok right after Bishop got traded but then crapped a bit down the stretch and Peoria missed the playoffs.

In fairness, I wouldn't rank goalies in a list with skaters just on principle. The vast majority are touted before disappearing entirely.
I think Allen has always gotten way too much blame for that loss in the WJC gold medal game from a few years ago. The Canadian defense absolutely hung him out to dry countless times that game leaving US players wide open in front for glorious scoring opportunities. Allen was also shaky that game and certainly didn't steal the game for the Canadians but I think he's only partially to blame for that loss and like you said, it was only 1 game. The Spengler Cup was again, just 1 game as well. He did start off poorly last season but he's been solid most of the time in Peoria and was very good in Jrs (won CHL goalie of the year his last yr of Jrs).

This is a very big year for his development but given his skills, I think he definitely has #1 potential and I think he's a pretty safe bet to at least be an NHL backup eventually. It is hard to evaluate goalies but if teams are able to rank them along with forwards and d-men in the draft and in terms if trade value, I see no reason why we can't rank them all together here as well.

STL fan in IA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 01:19 PM
  #12
Falco Lombardi
LET'S GO BLUES
 
Falco Lombardi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 7,642
vCash: 50
Jake Allen but again thought about Hakanpaa. Definitely the next vote

Falco Lombardi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 01:23 PM
  #13
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Country: United States
Posts: 6,679
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by fst6 View Post
Jake Allen. Probably could be a backup next year if it wasn't for the current situation.
Do many people actually think this? I must have missed something. Where is this sentiment coming from....because from what I've seen he's still plugging along in his development but there have been some disappointments and growing pains. Nothing that indicated he's NHL ready yet.

2 Minute Minor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 02:20 PM
  #14
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
I think Allen has always gotten way too much blame for that loss in the WJC gold medal game from a few years ago. The Canadian defense absolutely hung him out to dry countless times that game leaving US players wide open in front for glorious scoring opportunities. Allen was also shaky that game and certainly didn't steal the game for the Canadians but I think he's only partially to blame for that loss and like you said, it was only 1 game. The Spengler Cup was again, just 1 game as well. He did start off poorly last season but he's been solid most of the time in Peoria and was very good in Jrs (won CHL goalie of the year his last yr of Jrs).

This is a very big year for his development but given his skills, I think he definitely has #1 potential and I think he's a pretty safe bet to at least be an NHL backup eventually. It is hard to evaluate goalies but if teams are able to rank them along with forwards and d-men in the draft and in terms if trade value, I see no reason why we can't rank them all together here as well.
I go along with all this. And due to the fact that none of the remaining skaters are anywhere near playing regularly in The NHL, AND the fact that Allen is likely to be NO WORSE than a regular NHL back-up, I had to give the nod to Allen, here.

He's just got to get his mental game down. The Blues' brass dumped off a pretty fair goaltending prospect in Bishop, due to "choosing" to stick with Allen, because the latter has all the tools.

Robb_K is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 02:38 PM
  #15
stlweir
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,516
vCash: 500
I think Pocket gives the glass half empty scouting report. Allen has palyed well to above average since being drafted. He had a stellar rookie season with Peoria and struggled the first half of last season. Goalies are difficult to rate but he has the potential to be a #1 NHL goalie.


Last edited by stlweir: 08-02-2012 at 10:12 PM. Reason: corrections
stlweir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 03:49 PM
  #16
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
The problem with ranking goalies is they're so polarized. They either turn into good #1 goalies in which case they should be the #1 or #2 prospect in a team's depth chart, or they're a middling backup in which case they should be about #15 on a team's prospect depth chart or they fail entirely in which case they shouldn't be ranked. There is almost zero chance that they're #5, incidentally. It's hard to succeed in the NHL as a goalie but behind 4 superior prospects during your time in the prospect rankings. That kinda makes you one of the worst players on your team because in other prospect ranking windows (like when Pietrangelo was on, and when Perron was on) there are also superior players to you. So you made the team but you kinda suck and are utterly replaceable if you're #5 and a goalie.

Point being, we have no idea what Allen will turn out to be. The fact that he was drafted highly means almost nothing. How good doalies are at age 18 bears almost no relationship whatsoever to how they are in their mid-20s when they're breaking into the NHL. It'd be like scouting 16 year olds for the NFL.

I only pointed out the World Juniors thing because the comment above mine had praised him for his world juniors performance. I just rewatched that game and he was so ungodly brutal in it. It wasn't just the defense, it was him failing horribly. But like I said, one game at age 18 bears no relationship to the NHL. Haven't we had an epic long line of highly drafted goalies turn out to be nothing? And right now we have two ninth rounders (would be undrafted nowadays) as the tandem. The draft age and prospect age is just too far away to predict with any accuracy whether Allen will be worth anything. If he's worth anything, he's likely to be worth a ton or nothing. That's why it's sort of pointless IMO to rank them. Even on the idea that trade value helps rank them, really is that true? I mean, would any team in the NHL trade a first for Allen? No. Would any team trade a 2d for Allen? No. Bishop got a 2d and that was after many development years and a lights-out AHL campaign. Would a team trade a third? Probably, but the Blues wouldn't do it. Goalies tend to be more valuable to their teams than in trade value. The Blues might not even trade him for a 2d even if a team would be willing to offer it, simply because they value him more developing as the #1 in the AHL.

I guess what I'm saying is I understand being optimistic and having hopes for the kid, but the evidence and the numbers weigh heavily against it. There are LOTS of highly touted goalie prospects around the league. Goalies are a crapshoot because they get drafted way too early. At this point in time, Allen is a slightly above average AHL goalie. That's all you can say, and that isn't much. Of course he was always going to win this poll, just wanted to explain more fully why I may seem glass-half-empty.

PocketNines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 09:53 PM
  #17
Crumblin Erb Brooks
Registered User
 
Crumblin Erb Brooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Grenyarnia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
For the record, it was only one game but Allen's dismal performance at World Juniors literally cost Canada a gold medal. Got lit up in the Spengler Cup too. He's not been all that impressive in Peoria. Started off terrible last year, did ok right after Bishop got traded but then crapped a bit down the stretch and Peoria missed the playoffs.

In fairness, I wouldn't rank goalies in a list with skaters just on principle. The vast majority are touted before disappearing entirely.
Really, the Spengler Cup? Canada puts scrapes together a bleh roster, has to travel to Europe and plays against actual teams, I put zero stock into it.

His numbers evened out last season after a slow start, he has put together two pretty solid seasons as a 20 and 21 year old in the AHL. He has also gotten good amounts of playing time, and should get the bulk of playing time this season. Peoria hasnt been a very good the past couple of seasons, either.

As a general rule Im bearish on goalies until they get to the pro level, but Allen has performed at a level that I reasonably expected. Look at other recent goalies' first couple of seasons in the AHL, guys like Enroth Lehner, Holtby, Howard, Pavelec, etc. put up comparable numbers.

Im certainly not saying Allen is anything close to a sure thing, but I do think his first couple of seasons in Peoria have done nothing to turn me off to him as a prospect. I went with him here, everybody left at this point are pretty much unknowns. Allen is the one who I think is most likely to reach the NHL.

Hakanpaa, Fairchild, and Schmaltz are probably my next 3. Schmaltz has the offensive upside, Hakanpaa is intriguing and fills a need on defense (size), and Fairchild is the closest.

Crumblin Erb Brooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 05:56 AM
  #18
PerryTurnbullfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Penalty Box
Country:
Posts: 2,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
I think Allen has always gotten way too much blame for that loss in the WJC gold medal game from a few years ago. The Canadian defense absolutely hung him out to dry countless times that game leaving US players wide open in front for glorious scoring opportunities. Allen was also shaky that game and certainly didn't steal the game for the Canadians but I think he's only partially to blame for that loss and like you said, it was only 1 game. The Spengler Cup was again, just 1 game as well. He did start off poorly last season but he's been solid most of the time in Peoria and was very good in Jrs (won CHL goalie of the year his last yr of Jrs).

This is a very big year for his development but given his skills, I think he definitely has #1 potential and I think he's a pretty safe bet to at least be an NHL backup eventually. It is hard to evaluate goalies but if teams are able to rank them along with forwards and d-men in the draft and in terms if trade value, I see no reason why we can't rank them all together here as well.
I agree. I think Allen is hands down in this spot. Along with Ponich, Fairchild, Schmaltz, and Hakanpaa; I have to throw MacRae in the mix in the next few slots. He is getting close. Netted 20+ goals. Good size. I think he may just be a slower developer.

I may be in the minority here, but I'm not getting great vibes on Schwartz. I wasn't that impressed by him in his late season audition. Size makes me think we may have another Palazzari type of an AHL scoring leader. Hopefully, he may have some Cliff Ronning in him, but I don't know. Missed the earlier polls, but I think #2 is a stretch.

PerryTurnbullfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 08:39 AM
  #19
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 5,800
vCash: 500
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1241071

bluesfan94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 12:13 PM
  #20
BleedinBlueSince1972
More Cowbell!!!
 
BleedinBlueSince1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St. Louis MO
Country: United States
Posts: 2,814
vCash: 1010
Allen could very well be the Blues starting goalie in the Fall of 2014, until then he is honing his skills at Peoria as the Blues 3rd Goalie and deserving of the #5 overall Blues prospect.

BleedinBlueSince1972 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 04:50 PM
  #21
ChicagoBlues
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,564
vCash: 500
I have to go with Fairchild here because goaltenders are more of a wild card than defensemen and there is no way Jordan Schmaltz can be considered yet.

ChicagoBlues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 04:57 PM
  #22
MattyMo35
Moderator
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 5,852
vCash: 1598
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
I agree. I think Allen is hands down in this spot. Along with Ponich, Fairchild, Schmaltz, and Hakanpaa; I have to throw MacRae in the mix in the next few slots. He is getting close. Netted 20+ goals. Good size. I think he may just be a slower developer.

I may be in the minority here, but I'm not getting great vibes on Schwartz. I wasn't that impressed by him in his late season audition. Size makes me think we may have another Palazzari type of an AHL scoring leader. Hopefully, he may have some Cliff Ronning in him, but I don't know. Missed the earlier polls, but I think #2 is a stretch.
Who would you put number two then? Rattie? Cole? I don't see how you would point to size as the reason you were concerned about Schwartz, and then choose Rattie over him. Neither is exactly a bruiser. I don't think Cole has the upside to compete with Schwartz either. He's going to be a good player, but I think that's where it stops. I think Schwartz will be just fine. He still needs to add weight, but that can be done. He already thinks the game at an NHL level. His body just needs to catch up with his mind. I was actually very encouraged with his mini tryout last year. Both of his goals, being in the right spot at the right time in front of the net. He's small, but fearless. Nose for the net.

MattyMo35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 05:52 PM
  #23
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Country: United States
Posts: 6,679
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
I may be in the minority here, but I'm not getting great vibes on Schwartz. I wasn't that impressed by him in his late season audition. Size makes me think we may have another Palazzari type of an AHL scoring leader. Hopefully, he may have some Cliff Ronning in him, but I don't know. Missed the earlier polls, but I think #2 is a stretch.
Wow, I found his limited time in St Louis to be very encouraging. The guy just exudes hockey sense and being in the right place at the right time. He also showed good enough physicality to be competent and effective defensively, which is usually a limiting issue for offensive-minded rookies. I don't see this holding back his development as much as it does for many/most offensive players.

I actually think Schwartz is much closer to Tarasenko's value than is commonly held on here. (That said, I think Tarasenko is further down the development path, and Schwartz will still most likely start the year in Peoria.)

What did Schwartz do during his stint last season that concerned you? I find that opinion kind of shocking.

2 Minute Minor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 08:13 PM
  #24
Bluesnatic27
Registered User
 
Bluesnatic27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
I agree. I think Allen is hands down in this spot. Along with Ponich, Fairchild, Schmaltz, and Hakanpaa; I have to throw MacRae in the mix in the next few slots. He is getting close. Netted 20+ goals. Good size. I think he may just be a slower developer.

I may be in the minority here, but I'm not getting great vibes on Schwartz. I wasn't that impressed by him in his late season audition. Size makes me think we may have another Palazzari type of an AHL scoring leader. Hopefully, he may have some Cliff Ronning in him, but I don't know. Missed the earlier polls, but I think #2 is a stretch.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NFKufw_16g[/URL]
Your not getting good vibes from this guy?
I don't want to sound rude because I too don't like some very popular names around here, but Schwartz just has the tools to become a brilliant player, and has shown it at every level thus far. So I am truly mystified as to your concern

Bluesnatic27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 08:18 PM
  #25
Bluesnatic27
Registered User
 
Bluesnatic27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
I agree. I think Allen is hands down in this spot. Along with Ponich, Fairchild, Schmaltz, and Hakanpaa; I have to throw MacRae in the mix in the next few slots. He is getting close. Netted 20+ goals. Good size. I think he may just be a slower developer.

I may be in the minority here, but I'm not getting great vibes on Schwartz. I wasn't that impressed by him in his late season audition. Size makes me think we may have another Palazzari type of an AHL scoring leader. Hopefully, he may have some Cliff Ronning in him, but I don't know. Missed the earlier polls, but I think #2 is a stretch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NFKufw_16g
Your not getting good vibes from this guy?
I don't want to sound rude because I too don't like some very popular names around here, but Schwartz just has the tools to become a brilliant player, and has shown it at every level thus far. So I am truly mystified as to your concern

Bluesnatic27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.