HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Leafs should avoid Bernier: 5 reasons

View Poll Results: Of the following goaltending options, which would be the wisest move for the Toronto
Trade for Roberto Luongo, even at a steep price 24 15.89%
Be patient with the current tandem of James Reimer and Ben Scrivens 38 25.17%
Acquire a veteran goaltender short-term at low cost 61 40.40%
Trade for Jonathan Bernier for a reasonable price 28 18.54%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-01-2012, 04:07 PM
  #1
Tyler Biggs
Go Leafs Go!
 
Tyler Biggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,278
vCash: 500
Leafs should avoid Bernier: 5 reasons

When Jonathan Bernier, the Los Angeles Kings' well-regarded backup, announced his desire to be traded, rumours swirled that Toronto would be an appropriate landing spot. Here are five reasons why a Bernier-to-Leafs deal should not be struck.

1. They already have him.

More or less: Canadian goaltender chosen in the 2006 draft; will enter the 2012-13 season at 24 years of age; never played a playoff game; save percentage just on the friendly side of .900.

Take away the Mennonite background and last season's rash of injuries -- not a small deal, we know -- and James Reimer is Jonathan Bernier. Neither is quite ready to carry a team into the postseason, but both have shown hints of brilliance that, with patience, health and some strong coaching, could get them to that proverbial next level.

Thing is, on paper, the Leafs goalie looks equal to or better than Bernier, who carries with him the perception of a potential star netminder being selected 11th overall (to Reimer's 99th) and having won gold with Canada at the 2008 World Junior Hockey Championships. (Bernier went 1-1 in the tournament, splitting post duties with Steve Mason.)

Sure, there are hockey minds out there that believe Bernier's hybrid stand-up/butterfly style and quick reflexes make him a prime candidate to improve with experience, but who's to say a healthy Reimer (or even the untested Ben Scrivens, for that matter) won't appreciate at the same rate?

Reimer has played 71 games to Bernier's 48, has actually won more games than he's lost (34-24-9 to Bernier's 20-17-5), and has posted comparable stats -- despite playing behind an appreciably worse defence. Reimer has six shutouts, Bernier five. Bernier has a .910 save percentage, Reimer's is .914.

2. Bernier wants to be a starter now, but might not deserve it.

Bernier told TVA that he wants to be a starter in this league, but his impatience could be his undoing. Yes, it was only one interview, but Bernier and his Stanley Cup ring could have chosen to play things cool. There are worse jobs than getting paid millions to platoon in for a quarter of a season in a gorgeous city on a young, excitable winning team, allowing your skills to improve under limited scrutiny behind the second-best defence in the entire NHL.

Even a team that might be considering a trade for Bernier -- the Leafs, Columbus Blue Jackets, Florida Panthers and Chicago Blackhawks are among those looking for a starter -- could be put off by his seeming unwillingness to ride the bench for a while. "If this guy's discontent playing for a champion, how is he going to handle goalie life here?" prospective GMs might be thinking.

Barring injury, leapfrogging Quick in the Kings' depth chart isn't going to happen for 10 years. Fine. But is Bernier going to be a distraction elsewhere if he doesn't get the minutes he wants as soon as he wants? Two goalies sharing the spotlight and ice time works (see: Elliott and Halak, 2012 St. Louis Blues) only if the players buy in. Has Bernier made it clear that he only wants to be in a situation where he's The Man?

3. The Kings aren't desperate enough.

Unlike the Roberto Luongo situation -- which could get ugly if Canucks GM Mike Gillis can't find decent market value for his former No. 1 guy -- the Kings should feel little pressure to slap together a deal for Bernier just because he went back to Quebec after the parade and told a reporter he has no desire to be a backup, even if he's a backup on a championship team. Bernier wanted to be dealt at the 2012 deadline and the Kings wisely held off, waiting until they locked up Vezina candidate Jonathan Quick long-term, which they did this summer.

Just because Bernier said he expects to be swapped this off-season doesn't mean it will happen.

Why wouldn't the Kings wait until the 2013 deadline to deal Bernier, set to be a restricted free agent next summer when his two-year, $2.5-million deal expires? That's when they'll likely get the best deal for him; as Burke is fond of saying, GMs make some of their worst decisions at the wire. The Kings are no stranger to taking advantage of the panic, having grabbed Jeff Carter from Columbus midseason.

Plus, if the Kings start the 2012-13 season without Bernier, who will back up Quick? Bernier is a decent, if unspectacular, bench goalie at a fair rate. With a decade-long commitment to Quick, the Kings can take their time finding a decent, cheap veteran goalie on the downswing of his career to give Quick a breather while they mould their next youngster.

L.A. needs to be patient with this trade, and barring a horrendous performance by Bernier in an early-season support role that tarnishes his value, time is in their favour.

4. He's not as good as you might hope.

In the last two seasons, the only years in which Bernier has played significant minutes, he has benefitted from playing behind one of the NHL's best defences.

So as ho-hum as his career 2.50 goals-against average looks on paper, consider that that figure has been boosted by playing for a team that ranked third overall in shots allowed (27.9) in 2010-11 and fourth (27.4) in 2011-12. The Leafs, on the other hand, ranked 19th in the category in 2010-11 (31.0) and 24th in 2011-12 (30.8). Bernier faces three or four more shots each time he starts, and it stands to reason that his numbers fall on the sad side of Reimer's.

If the Leafs were to add another work-in-progress goaltender to their fleet, and failed to make the 2013 playoffs partly because of it, the fans are libel to… well, they'd still show up, but they wouldn't be happy about it.

5. It would take away from Option A.

Of course, just because some unconfirmed sources have whispered that the Leafs have inquired about Bernier doesn't mean a trade is imminent. Burke has gone on record as saying that he's more interested in a proven netminder (read: Luongo), and the idea of the Leafs kicking the tires on Bernier (earlier this month, the Toronto Sun threw out forward Matt Frattin's name as potential trade bait) could be a matter of exploring all options or a little gamesmanship in the Original Six club's bid to get Luongo in a trade that Burke hopes looks as lopsided as the New York Rangers' steal of Rick Nash from Columbus.

Luongo might not be interested in Toronto. It makes sense that he would prefer a return to Florida, where he has familiar ties, but as USA Today reported this week, the Panthers' reluctance to give away 20-year-old prospect centre Nick Bjugstad could stymie that deal.

Still, as long as one of the top eight proven goaltenders in the league is available, that's who the Leafs need to be targeting. Yes, Luongo is expensive and, yes, he lost the biggest game of his life. But the acquisition of Luongo would likely get Toronto into the playoffs. And, for both Burke's job security and the sanity of the city's sports fans, that needs to be priority No. 1.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...angeles_kings/

Tyler Biggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:13 PM
  #2
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
It's clear by now that Bernier isn't even being considered by the Leafs.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:14 PM
  #3
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
There's no reason to get Bernier. We are stacked with "Promising Young Goalies". We need an experienced veteran.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:24 PM
  #4
Machinae
Registered User
 
Machinae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Mississauga, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,512
vCash: 500
wait what columbus got a #1 d-man and a 1st round pick for Carter. Hardly a panic move or a bad return.

Machinae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:26 PM
  #5
FishManSam
Bobs Yummy Burgers!
 
FishManSam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: I Bet You Hate T.O
Country: Croatia
Posts: 4,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
wait what columbus got a #1 d-man and a 1st round pick for Carter. Hardly a panic move or a bad return.
They got Jack Johnson and a 1st round pick... Who is the #1 d-man you're talking about?

FishManSam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:28 PM
  #6
FlareKnight
Registered User
 
FlareKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,124
vCash: 50
Not big on going after Bernier though wouldn't turn it down if it came ot that.

Think we either go for Luongo or pray our guys step up. Has been a long time since we had a reliable #1 goalie in net.

FlareKnight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:29 PM
  #7
DirtyDion03
**** Brooklyn
 
DirtyDion03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,251
vCash: 166
Jack Johnson is far and away from a #1 defenseman. He's TERRIBLE defensively.

DirtyDion03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:30 PM
  #8
Tyler Biggs
Go Leafs Go!
 
Tyler Biggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,278
vCash: 500
I would rather us land Bernier then go with a Reimer/Scrivens duo if it came down to it. Bernier > Scrivens and a duo of Reimer/Bernier would be an upgrade over last seasons Reimer/Gus duo.

Tyler Biggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:34 PM
  #9
mix1home
Registered User
 
mix1home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto,ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,527
vCash: 500
Point 6: Bernier would cost too much. If price is Frattin+, that is non-starter for me. We need players like Frattin and Kulemin. We need to deal from position of strength to the position of weakness, not patching one hole creating another one. Bernier has proved nothing. We can only offer soft 2-3 liners (Mac, Con, Lombardi) and young D prospects - players that we have abundance of.

mix1home is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:34 PM
  #10
Duke Silver
Truce?
 
Duke Silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: St. John's, NL
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,949
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
wait what columbus got a #1 d-man and a 1st round pick for Carter. Hardly a panic move or a bad return.
This article shows otherwise: http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/24...on-is-not-good

Duke Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:40 PM
  #11
Swervin81
Mo Riles Mo Problems
 
Swervin81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,162
vCash: 500
Jack Johnson is a poor man's Dion Phaneuf with better skating.

Swervin81 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:50 PM
  #12
HocKEyFrEaK99
Registered User
 
HocKEyFrEaK99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
There's no reason to get Bernier. We are stacked with "Promising Young Goalies". We need an experienced veteran.
stacked with "Promising Young Goalies". HAHA!! far from that buddy!!

HocKEyFrEaK99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:53 PM
  #13
dfunk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 372
vCash: 500
If Burke is desperate and decides he NEEDS to make the playoffs this year, he swallows his pride and makes a big payment for Luongo.

If he wants to battle for 8th, he goes after Bernier or a veteran backup.

If he wants a lottery pick again, he goes with Reimer/Scrivens.

dfunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:56 PM
  #14
7even
Moderator
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 7,920
vCash: 500
You guys are making me proud with all the statistical refutation of Jack Johnson as a top pairing defenseman :')

7even is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:58 PM
  #15
HocKEyFrEaK99
Registered User
 
HocKEyFrEaK99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfunk View Post
If Burke is desperate and decides he NEEDS to make the playoffs this year, he swallows his pride and makes a big payment for Luongo.

If he wants to battle for 8th, he goes after Bernier or a veteran backup.

If he wants a lottery pick again, he goes with Reimer/Scrivens.
why do you think Bernier will make the team finish around 8th instead of 15th?

HocKEyFrEaK99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 04:59 PM
  #16
LordRamsay
Come out and flay
 
LordRamsay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 905
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,278
vCash: 588
Forget Bernier. Luongo when Gillis gets desperate enough, or a low cost veteran. I hear Dan Ellis is available?

LordRamsay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 05:02 PM
  #17
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 31,611
vCash: 500
Scrivens and Reimer might very well be complete garbage. Neither of them every had any pedigree attached to them, one guy is a 26 year old "prospect" and the other had a hot 3 and a half months a year and a half ago but was never considered to be anything.

The Leafs are junk and should be doing everything in their power to get better at every chance they have.

Stephen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 05:08 PM
  #18
dfunk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HocKEyFrEaK99 View Post
why do you think Bernier will make the team finish around 8th instead of 15th?
Meh, just saying that I feel like Bernier/Reimer is a lot better than Scrivens/Reimer. My choice above all is a vet back up, I don't really see Scrivens as an upgrade over Gus, it's more or less the same in my opinion. Gus was lights out in the SEL, but sucked here. Scrivens was lights out in the AHL, and was bad while up last year.

dfunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 05:10 PM
  #19
HellasLEAF
Komarov has cometh..
 
HellasLEAF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendelsmustache View Post
Forget Bernier. Luongo when Gillis gets desperate enough, or a low cost veteran. I hear Dan Ellis is available?
Possibly Nicklas Backstrom as well.

HellasLEAF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 05:12 PM
  #20
7even
Moderator
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 7,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Scrivens and Reimer might very well be complete garbage. Neither of them every had any pedigree attached to them.
Oh are we pretending that picking a goalie in the first round means he's going to be good?

7even is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 05:14 PM
  #21
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HocKEyFrEaK99 View Post
stacked with "Promising Young Goalies". HAHA!! far from that buddy!!
Reimer/Scrivens/Rynnas/Owuya is pretty good depth in terms of young goalies/prospects.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 05:15 PM
  #22
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Scrivens and Reimer might very well be complete garbage. Neither of them every had any pedigree attached to them, one guy is a 26 year old "prospect" and the other had a hot 3 and a half months a year and a half ago but was never considered to be anything.

The Leafs are junk and should be doing everything in their power to get better at every chance they have.
Scrivens was the best goalie in the AHL last season. And Reimer has been strong at every level in his career.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 05:25 PM
  #23
dfunk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Oh are we pretending that picking a goalie in the first round means he's going to be good?
I agree. Doesn't mean much if it was 6 years ago

Chet Pickard says hello

dfunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 06:07 PM
  #24
Raym11
Phaneuf sucks
 
Raym11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,775
vCash: 500
If we trade Frattin for in a deal for an unproven that will be pointless. Frattin is a case of a player we should keep and see what we have.


I'm very high on Frattin even through his lows of last season you wont find a post by me during any time that was negative. I really think he will be a mainstay on this team next year that if we traded we'd be trying to find someone to replace forever. He just has a great skillset for puck control and zone play that isnt worth giving up when our team has none of it.


Let Reimer go another year as well. Potential is just potential, I think Reimer is pretty similar to Bernier

Raym11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2012, 06:22 PM
  #25
daveleaf
Registered User
 
daveleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,568
vCash: 500
I would like Bernier on this team at the right price and a chance for him and Reimer to compete for the starting job. Good healthy competition is what we need.

This team needs a Giggy right now but no Giggy is available and what Van wants for Luongo is ridiculous. If he was 25 I could understand the price.

I would rather we keep as many assets as possible for trade bait for a young #1 centre that can develop into that role.

daveleaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.