HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Sports > General Sports
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

General Sports Other sports without their own forum, and general sports talk

Is Michael Phelps the most dominant athlete of the last 20 years?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-02-2012, 08:56 PM
  #26
Kurtz
Registered User
 
Kurtz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,162
vCash: 500
Despite his 20 medals, Phelps has never been the fastest swimmer in the world. Great athlete, very versatile in the water, but he's not the fastest in the sport where the goal is to be the fastest.

In Bejing, you could say that Bolt was by far the fastest human in the history of recorded civilization. Can you describe Phelps in a way that would make him at all comparible to that accomplishment?

Kurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 09:19 PM
  #27
kingsholygrail
Smug
 
kingsholygrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Derpifornia
Country: United States
Posts: 60,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
Despite his 20 medals, Phelps has never been the fastest swimmer in the world. Great athlete, very versatile in the water, but he's not the fastest in the sport where the goal is to be the fastest.

In Bejing, you could say that Bolt was by far the fastest human in the history of recorded civilization. Can you describe Phelps in a way that would make him at all comparible to that accomplishment?
20 medals, most of which are gold. That's kind of the point of the Olympics right? Win the most medals?

kingsholygrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 09:22 PM
  #28
BlameUtley
Moderator
When all else fails
 
BlameUtley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Clutch City
Posts: 43,223
vCash: 230
Cael Sanderson was pretty damn dominant, but I would probably say Phelps is.

BlameUtley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 09:29 PM
  #29
kingsholygrail
Smug
 
kingsholygrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Derpifornia
Country: United States
Posts: 60,027
vCash: 500
I'd also like to point out that Phelps is a pot head.


Think about that.

kingsholygrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 09:32 PM
  #30
Fayne Gretzky
5-14-6-1
 
Fayne Gretzky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,583
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
Despite his 20 medals, Phelps has never been the fastest swimmer in the world. Great athlete, very versatile in the water, but he's not the fastest in the sport where the goal is to be the fastest.

In Bejing, you could say that Bolt was by far the fastest human in the history of recorded civilization. Can you describe Phelps in a way that would make him at all comparible to that accomplishment?
He set 7 world records in Beijing....just because Usain's record hasn't been broken yet doesn't mean it won't very very soon.

Fayne Gretzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 09:33 PM
  #31
Panteras
perennial loser
 
Panteras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Television sky
Country: United States
Posts: 9,260
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
I'd also like to point out that Phelps is a pot head.


Think about that.
so you're saying pot helps you win Olympic medals...

Panteras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 09:47 PM
  #32
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
20 medals, most of which are gold. That's kind of the point of the Olympics right? Win the most medals?
No, four badminton teams just got DQed for trying to do that. Medals are meaningless, it's about competing all the time and putting on a show for the fans.

Brad Tolliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 09:55 PM
  #33
SimplySensational
Heard of Hough
 
SimplySensational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: VA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
You have no idea what you are talking about if you are lumping NASCAR with F1 and Indycars. If you aren't a professional racing driver chances are the g-forces in a F1 car will be too much for your neck muscles even over a single lap. Now imagine doing while keeping concentration for multiple hours. Even racing around in a go-kart is more physical than sports like baseball.

If it wasn't that difficult then the best drivers in the world wouldn't make more money in a year than most swimmers will in their lifetime.
If baseball wasn't difficult, baseballs best players wouldn't make more more than F1 drivers.

F1 Drivers are in shape, but they sure as hell don't fit the description of an athlete.


Last edited by SimplySensational: 08-02-2012 at 10:01 PM.
SimplySensational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 10:02 PM
  #34
Fabs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,961
vCash: 500
Probably the most dominant swimmer, maybe Olympian, but athlete? Doubtful. As already said, there are far too many swimming events with too many medals up for grabs. How do you compare him to an athlete in a sport that doesn't have the same opportunities?

Fabs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 10:27 PM
  #35
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
If baseball wasn't difficult, baseballs best players wouldn't make more more than F1 drivers.

F1 Drivers are in shape, but they sure as hell don't fit the description of an athlete.
F1 drivers are no lacrosse bros. Modern F1 and Indycar drivers are competitive in triathlons. Jenson Button won his age group in the Lavaman and finished 6th overall. Tell them they aren't athletes, brah.

Fernando Alonso's base salary is more than that of any baseball player, including Arod who is already paid about $6M more than the next highest paid players. The average MLB salary is about half that of the average F1 driver.

Brad Tolliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 10:33 PM
  #36
Dream Big
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,376
vCash: 500
Phelps is definitely a/the dominant swimmer in the past 20 years. Whether he is the best swimmer ever? Maybe not. Mark Spitz won 7 gold medals in the 1972 Olympics with each win being a World record. That accomplishment has not been broken to this day.

Swimmers can compete in 8 events in every Olympics. I think that is the most for any of the disciplines. So it can skew the title of dominance as an overall athlete. Some Olympians only have one event they can enter.

Dream Big is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 11:10 PM
  #37
Dream Big
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,376
vCash: 500
Just found out that the USA pays $25,000 for each gold, Canada $20,000, China $50,000 and Russia $100,000.

Phelps is doing okay.

Dream Big is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 11:18 PM
  #38
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Hawks!
 
UsernameWasTaken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
Just found out that the USA pays $25,000 for each gold, Canada $20,000, China $50,000 and Russia $100,000.

Phelps is doing okay.
Taxable as income, so it's a bit less

It's interesting that Canada taxes it - it doesn't tax athletes for the income they get from carding.

UsernameWasTaken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 11:21 PM
  #39
Zamuz
Registered User
 
Zamuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Finland
Country: Jamaica
Posts: 1,589
vCash: 500
Say anything you want, but Usain Bolt's performance at Beijing was more impressive than Phelps 8 gold medals.

100m world record even though starting celebrations ~10 meters before finish
Breaking Michael Johnsons world record in 200 meters that many thought was unbreakable
Finishing with 3rd gold & 3rd world record in relay

I value a 100 & 200 meters gold medal higher than swimming medals.

That's my opinion of course


Last edited by Zamuz: 08-02-2012 at 11:29 PM.
Zamuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 11:27 PM
  #40
who_me?
Registered User
 
who_me?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,464
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
Phelps is definitely a/the dominant swimmer in the past 20 years. Whether he is the best swimmer ever? Maybe not. Mark Spitz won 7 gold medals in the 1972 Olympics with each win being a World record. That accomplishment has not been broken to this day.
Phelps won 8 gold medals in 2008. That accomplishment has not been broken to this day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
Swimmers can compete in 8 events in every Olympics. I think that is the most for any of the disciplines. So it can skew the title of dominance as an overall athlete.
Phelps won his 19th medal yesterday to pass a....gymnast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
Some Olympians only have one event they can enter.
Most swimmers only have one event they can enter...because that's the only one they can qualify for.

who_me? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 12:16 AM
  #41
invictus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
Despite his 20 medals, Phelps has never been the fastest swimmer in the world. Great athlete, very versatile in the water, but he's not the fastest in the sport where the goal is to be the fastest.

In Bejing, you could say that Bolt was by far the fastest human in the history of recorded civilization. Can you describe Phelps in a way that would make him at all comparible to that accomplishment?
I'm confused. How is Phelps never the fastest in the world if he is finishing first in events?

invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 12:41 AM
  #42
Kurtz
Registered User
 
Kurtz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
20 medals, most of which are gold. That's kind of the point of the Olympics right? Win the most medals?

Yes, if the thread title was "Does Phelps have the most medals in the last 20 years", that'd be a definitive yes.

But not all medals are created equally when you're comparing cross-sport.

What if they started creating extra categories in ballroom dancing - a one minute dance, a 2 minute dance, a 5 minute dance, an artistic dance, a dance where you have to toss your partner in the air...all in all, say they created 8 dance categories, and some great dance pair won all 8 gold. Would you categorize them as the greatest athletes at those Olympics?

Kurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 12:44 AM
  #43
Kurtz
Registered User
 
Kurtz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus View Post
I'm confused. How is Phelps never the fastest in the world if he is finishing first in events?
He's finishing first in difficult events, but events that aren't designed to measure the fastest swimmer in the world. Those are the freestyle 50m/100m swims.

It's like comparing a hurdler to a sprinter. Yea, jumping hurdles is pretty damn hard, but at the end of the day the sprinter is the fastest human in the world, and the hurdler is just the best hurdler in the world.

Kurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 12:55 AM
  #44
Yoshimitsu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 6,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
He's finishing first in difficult events, but events that aren't designed to measure the fastest swimmer in the world. Those are the freestyle 50m/100m swims.

It's like comparing a hurdler to a sprinter. Yea, jumping hurdles is pretty damn hard, but at the end of the day the sprinter is the fastest human in the world, and the hurdler is just the best hurdler in the world.
And? The 50m free is one event of many. Swimming and track sprinting are completely different. Despite not being the fastest pure sprinter in swimming, Phelps is the greatest of all time, and no one else is even close.

As far as being the most dominant athlete goes, it's hard to say. Comparing across different sports makes it very difficult to rank one athlete above another. I would say that he's certainly among the small handful of people in the discussion, but I would be hesitant to declare him the most dominant outright.

Yoshimitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 02:06 AM
  #45
Corto
Faceless Man
 
Corto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Braavos
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,935
vCash: 500
MOST dominant? Nah, or at least debatable.
And you don't count medals here as the ultimate measuring stick.
No other sport can offer you 8 or more medals in a single Olympics - even gymnastics is 8 only in the men's field (Scherbo won 6 out of the 8 evens in 1992).

Bolt will never come close to Phelps' number of medals, but he's been beating his opponents by a wider margin.

Federer has set some ridiculous records, especially in his prime in 2005-2006.

Schumacher won 7 (7!!!!) F1 World Titles.
(btw, LOL at the guy who said F1 racing is less a sport than golf... just... LOL)

The aforementioned Vitaliy Scherbo dominated gymnastics like nobody else - but had significant issues in life after the Olympics - mostly not through any fault of his own (his family was victimized, robbed, his daughter was nearly kidnapped... eventually he moved to the US, proceed to win more World Titles, but then his wife had a terrible car accident and was in a coma for a month. Scherbo was in the hospital the whole time and didn't train. When she - miraculously - woke up she asked him to go the Atlanta Olympics and there, even with basically no training and with 15lbs extra weight, the dude won 4 bronze medals). It's really an amazing story.
He lives in the US now and runs his own gym, AFAIK.

Lance Armstrong, Michael Johnson...
The dope issues the cyclists and the US F&T in that era have aside, were simply unbeatable.

It's also very hard to compare individual to team sports, but there are people like Jordan, Ronaldo, Zidane, Gretzky, etc. to take into account as well.

...

Phelps is definitely up there, but purely because of how different the sports are, you can't say anything for sure when it comes to athletes THAT great.

Corto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 02:16 AM
  #46
vippe
Registered User
 
vippe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 12,712
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to vippe
Even though his career stretched for more than 20 years ago he ended his career 12 years ago and was still active during the window you are asking for I'm going to say Karelin. Most dominant athlete ever.

Lost one game during his entire senior career and won everything he entered except for his last and final olympic final.

12 European Championships
9 World Championships
3 Olympic Golds

and ofc his worst result of them all

1 Olympic Silver

vippe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 02:22 AM
  #47
Kane One
Global Moderator
 
Kane One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brooklyn, New NY
Country: United States
Posts: 34,176
vCash: 1425
It has to be Tiger Woods.

__________________


Glass from Girardi is practically a mathematical impossibility. I'm glad to have witnessed this great Rangers moment. -Bob Richards
I'd hate to know what the toilet facilities look like after a game with the way this team aims... -Megustaelhockey
Kane One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 04:25 AM
  #48
Eisen
Registered User
 
Eisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Eugene
Country: United States
Posts: 10,107
vCash: 500
Ed Moses is a good candidate as well. Unbeaten between 1977 and 1987 in 122 races.

Edit: Oops, and again I break the 20 year clause. I'm getting old

Eisen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 05:33 AM
  #49
NMF78
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belgium
Country: Belgium
Posts: 635
vCash: 500
Lol at people saying F1-racing is easy. It might be the hardest sport there is, the amount of concentration thats needed to ride such a car for 2 hours is mindboggling.

To me Phelps is certainly up there along with Karelin, Schumacher, Woods, Federer. Its difficult to compare sports.

NMF78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 05:41 AM
  #50
kingsholygrail
Smug
 
kingsholygrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Derpifornia
Country: United States
Posts: 60,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
Yes, if the thread title was "Does Phelps have the most medals in the last 20 years", that'd be a definitive yes.

But not all medals are created equally when you're comparing cross-sport.

What if they started creating extra categories in ballroom dancing - a one minute dance, a 2 minute dance, a 5 minute dance, an artistic dance, a dance where you have to toss your partner in the air...all in all, say they created 8 dance categories, and some great dance pair won all 8 gold. Would you categorize them as the greatest athletes at those Olympics?
How do you reasonably compare cross-sport? What criteria are we using here?

kingsholygrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.