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Old
11-27-2012, 08:17 AM
  #576
Drizzt1
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My opinion:

No offense, but I'd rather we trade Hejda, and keep O'Byrne. Then again, I think both are expendible. I'd waive, buyout or ship Hunwick. Zanon is an unknown, but he at present would then become our 7th defensemen. Siemens has to come in next season. Barrie, Gaunce or Elliott should hopefully be ready. We then acquire a true number one / two D-man as other have alluded to.

Fact is, we have an abundance of plodders, and need fresh, quality defensemen that can turn a game.

Johnson by FAR is our best defensemen. The problem is that there is a huge gap between his potential and skill, and anyone else.

The most worriesome part for mine, is the length of contracts our D-men have.
Johnson has another 3.5 years
Hejda, Wilson & O'Brien have another 2.5 years
Hunwick and Zanon have 1.5 years.

Therefore, unless we waive, trade buyout or other, we are stuck with that core for quite some time.

And that worries me.

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11-27-2012, 10:27 AM
  #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
My opinion:

No offense, but I'd rather we trade Hejda, and keep O'Byrne. Then again, I think both are expendible. I'd waive, buyout or ship Hunwick. Zanon is an unknown, but he at present would then become our 7th defensemen. Siemens has to come in next season. Barrie, Gaunce or Elliott should hopefully be ready. We then acquire a true number one / two D-man as other have alluded to.
I think Siemens is almost guaranteed to spend some time in the minors. Would be lovely if Barrie or Elliott could step up and provide 35+ points. I haven't seen Gaunce play since he was last with the Avs, but he would have to be pretty spectacular defensively to force the Avs to ship out an experienced vet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Fact is, we have an abundance of plodders, and need fresh, quality defensemen that can turn a game.

Johnson by FAR is our best defensemen. The problem is that there is a huge gap between his potential and skill, and anyone else.

The most worriesome part for mine, is the length of contracts our D-men have.
Johnson has another 3.5 years
Hejda, Wilson & O'Brien have another 2.5 years
Hunwick and Zanon have 1.5 years.

Therefore, unless we waive, trade buyout or other, we are stuck with that core for quite some time.

And that worries me.
Hopefully three years from now Johnson is the only defenceman left from that list. Maybe Wilson too, if he stays healthy.

However, I don't feel like the Avs are stuck with these guys. By the time next season rolls around, Hunwick and Zanon will have only 1 year left which makes them very tradeable. Wilson being a young guy with 2 years left is certainly tradeable. O'Brien/Hejda may be here till their contracts are almost up.

Hopefully this is the summer the Avs feel they're ready to spend some money. With a new CBA to level the playing field and the fact that they made offers to Parise and Suter is hopefully indicative of the willingness to spend big. Especially if guys like Edler, Smid, or Perry, and all the other vet talent make it to free agency.

Quote:
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
Parenteau - Duchene - Sgarbossa
McGinn - Stastny - Jones
Walker - Heard - Malone
Olver

Gaunce- Johnson
Elliott - Siemens
Barrie - xxx

Varlamov
Pickard
Aittokallio
This is from the Team in 5 years thread. All I can say is hopefully some established talent is brought in. I'd be shocked if Gaunce/Elliott/Barrie/Siemens were all NHL quality, as well as Sgarbossa and Downie being the top two right wings.

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Old
11-27-2012, 10:49 AM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
years thread. All I can say is hopefully some established talent is brought in. I'd be shocked if Gaunce/Elliott/Barrie/Siemens were all NHL quality, as well as Sgarbossa and Downie being the top two right wings.
Personally I'd slot O'Byrne as the 6th defender and keep him 5 years from now. But knowing the Avs and their belief in replacing their top of the line role players, he probably won't be with us that long.

Furthermore, I don't see Walker with the Avs in any capacity. By the time 5 years is up we should have a new prospect or two pushing their way into the lineup imo. Hishon might be recovered for instance.

I'm also of the belief Gaunce will not be with us 5 years from now. I think he and one of our goalies will become trade fodder in 2-3 years after they get a taste of the NHL and show other teams what they are capable of.

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Old
11-27-2012, 02:22 PM
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Personally I'd slot O'Byrne as the 6th defender and keep him 5 years from now. But knowing the Avs and their belief in replacing their top of the line role players, he probably won't be with us that long.

Furthermore, I don't see Walker with the Avs in any capacity. By the time 5 years is up we should have a new prospect or two pushing their way into the lineup imo. Hishon might be recovered for instance.

I'm also of the belief Gaunce will not be with us 5 years from now. I think he and one of our goalies will become trade fodder in 2-3 years after they get a taste of the NHL and show other teams what they are capable of.
Yea, if Gaunce can show that he's a decent Top 4 Dman in the NHL and Pickard/Aitto prove to be solid backups with Starter potential in a couple years, I think a package of Gaunce + Pick/Aitto + 1st could really land us a decent player.

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Old
11-27-2012, 04:03 PM
  #580
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Don't hate on Eskimo, the guy is one of the best comedians on HF.

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Old
11-27-2012, 09:22 PM
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
Parenteau - Duchene - Sgarbossa
McGinn - Stastny - Jones
Walker - Heard - Malone
Olver

Gaunce- Johnson
Elliott - Siemens
Barrie - xxx

Varlamov
Pickard
Aittokallio

This is from the Team in 5 years thread. All I can say is hopefully some established talent is brought in. I'd be shocked if Gaunce/Elliott/Barrie/Siemens were all NHL quality, as well as Sgarbossa and Downie being the top two right wings.
If the O'Reilly line is still the best line the Avs have in 5 years...then Duchene and Stastny really plateaued. Sgarbossa will slot into the LW and PA into the RW of that line but I would not be surprised if we see Sgarbossa as a center rather than winger if he makes it as a scoring line forward in the NHL. His game and skills seem perfect for center.

If Gaunce is a top pairing D, the Avs are probably in trouble. While his skating has improved he still is a step slow to handle the forwards a top pairing D would face. Right now he looks like potentially a good 3rd pairing D at the NHL level with the ability to top out as a middle pairing guy if everything works out. The Avs are going to have to bring in someone for the left side with Johnson. Despite his size, Barrie may be an option if he can handle the left side as his speed and puck skills would help offset playing as a RD on the left side and allow EJ to play less aggressive (offensively) as his partner can actually move the puck.

While its fun to make 5 year projections, the likelihood that 2/3 of the team is made up of players as listed is extremely rare. I like Downie but I can't see him sticking around in two years unless Colorado really wows him with the area and team (or they steal Stamkos from Tampa). We should see another big trade this season or next that may not bring in a big name but a good quality player or two that pieces and futures can be used on. As much as it would look nice to pry a "name" player from a cap strapped team, it will be really hard to fit them long term with the core possibly needing raises again in 2-3 years.

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Old
11-27-2012, 10:43 PM
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandar View Post
If the O'Reilly line is still the best line the Avs have in 5 years...then Duchene and Stastny really plateaued. Sgarbossa will slot into the LW and PA into the RW of that line but I would not be surprised if we see Sgarbossa as a center rather than winger if he makes it as a scoring line forward in the NHL. His game and skills seem perfect for center.

If Gaunce is a top pairing D, the Avs are probably in trouble. While his skating has improved he still is a step slow to handle the forwards a top pairing D would face. Right now he looks like potentially a good 3rd pairing D at the NHL level with the ability to top out as a middle pairing guy if everything works out. The Avs are going to have to bring in someone for the left side with Johnson. Despite his size, Barrie may be an option if he can handle the left side as his speed and puck skills would help offset playing as a RD on the left side and allow EJ to play less aggressive (offensively) as his partner can actually move the puck.

While its fun to make 5 year projections, the likelihood that 2/3 of the team is made up of players as listed is extremely rare. I like Downie but I can't see him sticking around in two years unless Colorado really wows him with the area and team (or they steal Stamkos from Tampa). We should see another big trade this season or next that may not bring in a big name but a good quality player or two that pieces and futures can be used on. As much as it would look nice to pry a "name" player from a cap strapped team, it will be really hard to fit them long term with the core possibly needing raises again in 2-3 years.
Agreed with everything you said. I didn't make that lineup. I should probably edit that, but you hit the nail on the head. If that is the lineup in 5 years then the Avs are screwed.

I do disagree, and hope you are wrong about Downie. Hopefully the young core makes him want to stick around. He's a rare player.

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Old
11-28-2012, 05:14 PM
  #583
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It hasn't been 5 years since Smyth, Hannan, Clark, Liles, Arnason, Wolski, Svatos, et al were on this team. It makes no sense to really try to project 5 years ahead. Of all our current D prospects, I imagine 2 might be on the team long term - one of elliot/barrie and possibly siemens. Rest will either fail to make it, or be traded.

I'm only confident that the core will be held together for 5 years - EJ, Varly, 2/3 of our current centers, and Landeskog. Rest is all up in the air.

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Old
11-28-2012, 05:41 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
It hasn't been 5 years since Smyth, Hannan, Clark, Liles, Arnason, Wolski, Svatos, et al were on this team. It makes no sense to really try to project 5 years ahead. Of all our current D prospects, I imagine 2 might be on the team long term - one of elliot/barrie and possibly siemens. Rest will either fail to make it, or be traded.

I'm only confident that the core will be held together for 5 years - EJ, Varly, 2/3 of our current centers, and Landeskog. Rest is all up in the air.
I think we could add McGinn to that core, I really think managment are really high on him. But other then that I agree, anyone could be moved outside of those select few.


Oh, and Seth Jones

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:27 PM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
It hasn't been 5 years since Smyth, Hannan, Clark, Liles, Arnason, Wolski, Svatos, et al were on this team. It makes no sense to really try to project 5 years ahead. Of all our current D prospects, I imagine 2 might be on the team long term - one of elliot/barrie and possibly siemens. Rest will either fail to make it, or be traded.
The good news is that the Avs seem to know when to sell high (or at least sell) on a prospect/young player. We have seen some highly/somewhat regarded prospects and younger players moved very early into their careers for something of value. We have seen Cohen, Williams, Stewart, Galiardi, Wolski and others (Quincey even) moved for something of use/value. Other than say Stoa and Hensick, the Avs are quick to cut ties with most of the players they don't see in the long term plan and even then we don't know if there was a market for those two anyways. If Elliott, Gaunce and some of the other young guys are still around after this season then there is the chance the Avs view them as long term players for them.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:25 PM
  #586
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You're right that Sherman has been good at moving players once they improve their stock but before they have too much time to stagnate - I think guys like Stoa and Hensick stuck around so long because it was hard to sell such obviously flawed players to other teams. Gaunce I believe is going to be in this category - he is going to be a depth player in our system for a while and personally from what I've seen I don't think he's ever going to crack the NHL long term - at least not with the Avs. Though to be fair I do think he has shown more promise than Stoa or Hensick in that he plays with heart and looked serviceable in his very short stint. He may be one of those guys who makes the show a little later on. Elliott/Barrie on the other hand I'm sure will continue to improve their stock and over the next couple years I imagine one of them will be moved. I don't see both being on the roster long term.

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11-29-2012, 04:50 AM
  #587
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Man, when Gaunce is knocking skulls and anchoring our PK yall are gunna have so much egg on your faces.

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Old
11-29-2012, 07:32 AM
  #588
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Man, when Gaunce is knocking skulls and anchoring our PK yall are gunna have so much egg on your faces.
Yeah, why is everybody so down on Gaunce? He and Goers are the only dmen with a positive +/- and in most of the games he has been looking okay at least imo. It's not his job to rack up points. He's a stay at home defenseman.

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11-29-2012, 07:37 AM
  #589
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Originally Posted by klozge View Post
Yeah, why is everybody so down on Gaunce? He and Goers are the only dmen with a positive +/- and in most of the games he has been looking okay at least imo. It's not his job to rack up points. He's a stay at home defenseman.
I don't think anyone is really down on him, just not expecting him to jump into the NHL and be a guy we rely on heavily. I'd rather keep O'Byrne over Gaunce personally and between EJ, Elliott, Barrie, Siemens and our mystery top pairing defender I expect our top 4 to be full with the possibility of O'Byrne plugging that 4/5 role and maybe Wilson sticking around... Gaunce could simply be a valuable asset to be moved in the future.

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11-29-2012, 09:02 AM
  #590
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Siemens is years away, and I don't expect us to have both Barrie and Elliott playing for the Avs for long. Plus unlike O'Byrne, Gaunce knows that the puck won't explode if it's on his stick for long enough to clear the zone with a good pass.

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11-29-2012, 09:44 AM
  #591
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I wouldn't mind that Yandle for Stastny trade on the main board. It's funny Gordon is the sticking point in a deal for two stars.

Landeskog-Duchene---
--------ROR-------

Yandle-EJ
Varly

is a very nice core.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:22 AM
  #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I don't think anyone is really down on him, just not expecting him to jump into the NHL and be a guy we rely on heavily. I'd rather keep O'Byrne over Gaunce personally and between EJ, Elliott, Barrie, Siemens and our mystery top pairing defender I expect our top 4 to be full with the possibility of O'Byrne plugging that 4/5 role and maybe Wilson sticking around... Gaunce could simply be a valuable asset to be moved in the future.
But don't they play different sides? Gaunce is competing against Wilson, Zanon, O'Brien and such on the left side -- O'Byrne is on the right.

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11-29-2012, 11:02 AM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
I wouldn't mind that Yandle for Stastny trade on the main board. It's funny Gordon is the sticking point in a deal for two stars.

Landeskog-Duchene---
--------ROR-------

Yandle-EJ
Varly

is a very nice core.
We trade our best center for a defenseman who's at best suspect in his own end and in the process we must hope that Duchene comes to his senses and that Radar's last season wasn't a fluke?

No thanks.

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11-29-2012, 01:49 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by klozge View Post
Yeah, why is everybody so down on Gaunce? He and Goers are the only dmen with a positive +/- and in most of the games he has been looking okay at least imo. It's not his job to rack up points. He's a stay at home defenseman.
Not down on Gaunce, just curtailing any high expectations of him. We won't really know for another year or two what the Avs have with Gaunce. A D like him takes time to settle into what will make him successful. He can't continually look for the big hit, isn't an overly fast skater, nor a star with the puck so he will find out where he needs to focus to be a successful pro and continue to improve his game. If he continues to improve and doesn't plateau then he could be more than the bottom pairing hard working/lunchpail NHL D he projects to be. Don't get me wrong, he has the potential to be better than that, but how often does everything fall into place?

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11-29-2012, 06:44 PM
  #595
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Agreed with some others, I'm not down on him, I just don't think he'll ever be a top 4 dman. He could maybe in a couple years be a bottom pairing dman for us but I just don't feel like he does anything at a high enough level to be a top 4 guy, without significant improvement. I think if he does blossom into more than he projects to be right now, it will be several years down the road in something of a Boychuk situation.

A large part of my skepticism stems from the fact that we haven't developed a high end defensive D since Adam Foote. Siemens I have a little more optimism for just because of his pedigree and skating but thats again a very long term picture for him being a reliable contributor to this squad.

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11-29-2012, 07:02 PM
  #596
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When I watch Gaunce I like his attitude. He doesn't mind playing the body and plays with a bit of a snarl. Seems to be a decent enough puck handler too.

I do think it seems like he wanders off and is easy to pull out of position for a cycling team. But I'm basing this on a small sample and his support may be lacking. But he does seem to be a bit too much all over the place.

But LEM are a young team with lots of new faces. It's fair to give them half a season to gel and see what happens.

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11-30-2012, 07:25 AM
  #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Agreed with some others, I'm not down on him, I just don't think he'll ever be a top 4 dman. He could maybe in a couple years be a bottom pairing dman for us but I just don't feel like he does anything at a high enough level to be a top 4 guy, without significant improvement. I think if he does blossom into more than he projects to be right now, it will be several years down the road in something of a Boychuk situation.

A large part of my skepticism stems from the fact that we haven't developed a high end defensive D since Adam Foote. Siemens I have a little more optimism for just because of his pedigree and skating but thats again a very long term picture for him being a reliable contributor to this squad.
I guess, I agree. To have him on the third pairing wouldn't be bad, though. He still needs to improve, of course, but if he does I would love to watch him play this position. It wouldn't hurt the team too bad if he drops the gloves and imo it's important for his way of playing that he can fight sometimes. Like I said earlier in the LEM thread I think he's trying to avoid taking penalties too much this season and it's somewhat hurting his performance.

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11-30-2012, 09:42 AM
  #598
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I hope we keep Big Sexy.

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11-30-2012, 09:43 AM
  #599
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Anyway, this thread exists and there's some strange answers: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1299095

Steve Downie 13
Matt Hunwick 1
Shane O'Brien 5
Paul Stastny 1
Jamie McGinn 1 (this one from an Avs fan which I really don't get)
None 3
Majority of them 1
Gabriel Landeskog 2
Cody McLeod 2
Matt Duchene 2
Erik Johnson 2
Ryan O'Byrne 1
Ryan O'Reilly 1
J.S. Giguere 2
Johnson/Landeskog/"all the Irish" 1
PA Parenteau 1
Tyson Barrie 1

Mainly Oilers fans voting Landeskog, a Rangers fan voting PAP and Blues fans for EJ. I do like how Downie now has a new conference of teams to piss off though.

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11-30-2012, 12:08 PM
  #600
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Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
Anyway, this thread exists and there's some strange answers: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1299095

Steve Downie 13
Matt Hunwick 1
Shane O'Brien 5
Paul Stastny 1
Jamie McGinn 1 (this one from an Avs fan which I really don't get)
None 3
Majority of them 1
Gabriel Landeskog 2
Cody McLeod 2
Matt Duchene 2
Erik Johnson 2
Ryan O'Byrne 1
Ryan O'Reilly 1
J.S. Giguere 2
Johnson/Landeskog/"all the Irish" 1
PA Parenteau 1
Tyson Barrie 1

Mainly Oilers fans voting Landeskog, a Rangers fan voting PAP and Blues fans for EJ. I do like how Downie now has a new conference of teams to piss off though.
Everytime I read Downie's name in this thread I had to smile. I hope he'll stay an Av for a while. The team needs a guy like him who gets under the skin of opponents.

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