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Old
08-14-2012, 04:58 PM
  #126
Ivan13
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Sorry am not an expert in this field of economic issues so could tell me what luxury tax is?

I for one love how the NHL is already and the parity of it. If there is a luxury tax, which sounds bad could there be something like a hard cap with a soft luxury tax?
As Muffin said, there's no hard cap, but for every $ you go over the cap you have to pay another $ to the league.

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08-14-2012, 05:10 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
As Muffin said, there's no hard cap, but for every $ you go over the cap you have to pay another $ to the league.
Terrible. I just had a long post typed out with some ideas on how to possibly further penalize teams over the cap, but realized that no matter what I could think of there would always be the prospect of some serious loopholes.

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08-14-2012, 05:13 PM
  #128
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There is no way the owners give up the salary cap, after losing a year of hockey to get it.

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08-14-2012, 05:26 PM
  #129
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All I notice from that video is Quincey looks like a d-bag...

I don't get it,

Your all a bunch of rich ******, you make more money in a few years than most people make in there lives. Suck it up, resolve the issues.

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Old
08-14-2012, 05:41 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by electricjib View Post
All I notice from that video is Quincey looks like a d-bag...

I don't get it,

Your all a bunch of rich ******, you make more money in a few years than most people make in there lives. Suck it up, resolve the issues.
How about the billionaires that put forth a joke of an offer that asked the players to rollback their salaries again, have shorter contracts, and a smaller share of the revenue. There's no way they were going to accept all of that.

At least the player's offer seems like an honest attempt to work with the league on making it work for everyone. It may need some tweaks, but it's not the home run swing the owners tried to take again.

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Old
08-14-2012, 06:18 PM
  #131
Bill Peckerskull
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Luxury tax will kill the parity in the NHL since big teams will spend like drunk millionaires and the league will turn into NBA.
or MLB, which is even worse. They absolutely need to keep a hard cap, and especially the cap floor. Maybe allow each team to have a "Franchise Player" distinction for one guy that allows them to go above the cap. However, what the NHLPA is proposing is going backwards to the way it was pre-lockout, IMO.

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Old
08-14-2012, 06:22 PM
  #132
electricjib
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
How about the billionaires that put forth a joke of an offer that asked the players to rollback their salaries again, have shorter contracts, and a smaller share of the revenue. There's no way they were going to accept all of that.

At least the player's offer seems like an honest attempt to work with the league on making it work for everyone. It may need some tweaks, but it's not the home run swing the owners tried to take again.
I should've been more specific, I meant both parties not just the players.

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Old
08-14-2012, 06:26 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Luxury tax will kill the parity in the NHL since big teams will spend like drunk millionaires and the league will turn into NBA.
I like the idea of a luxury tax. I miss the 90's screw parity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electricjib View Post
All I notice from that video is Quincey looks like a d-bag...

I don't get it,

Your all a bunch of rich ******, you make more money in a few years than most people make in there lives. Suck it up, resolve the issues.
Pretty easy to say that from were you and I are sitting. Me thinks you would have a different outlook when someone else trying to take $$$ that you have a right to.

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Old
08-14-2012, 06:47 PM
  #134
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We are about 1 month away from the CBA expiring, and the NHLPA just tables their first official proposal now??... What have you been doing the past year ???? Seriously, what a joke. How can you expect to come to an agreement on 10000 things in a month when you do that? I mean, re-alignment alone will probably take a week to settle.

The game itself is fine IMO, just some legal changes I would like to see in the next CBA

- Contract cap hits = salary paid out .. no more this signing bonus bologna and twindling contracts in year 12, salary/caphit identical every year of contract
- Salary cap 70 mill, min. 15 mill less than upper limit
- No increase in salary cap. Any excess in profits to be put into player escrows, player pensions, and help out struggling franchises.
- Contracts capped at 10 years
- 50/50 share revenue (currently 53-47 NHLPA)
- ELC to remain the same
- Re-alignment: Van to PAC, WIN to NW, Dal to CEN, CLB to SE.. none of this 7/8 team conferences
- If a suspension is appealled, it will be reviewed the captains of the other 28 teams (not the 2 in the game of the incident), not Gary Betteman.

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Old
08-14-2012, 06:52 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
We are about 1 month away from the CBA expiring, and the NHLPA just tables their first official proposal now??... What have you been doing the past year ???? Seriously, what a joke. How can you expect to come to an agreement on 10000 things in a month when you do that? I mean, re-alignment alone will probably take a week to settle.
It's called negotiation. I think the NHLPA is going to take a hard line stance, and when you want ownership to cave you threaten the start of the season. Fehr doesn't give two %@#&@'s about the fans, I can tell ya that.

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Old
08-14-2012, 06:59 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
We are about 1 month away from the CBA expiring, and the NHLPA just tables their first official proposal now??... What have you been doing the past year ???? Seriously, what a joke. How can you expect to come to an agreement on 10000 things in a month when you do that? I mean, re-alignment alone will probably take a week to settle.

The game itself is fine IMO, just some legal changes I would like to see in the next CBA

- Contract cap hits = salary paid out .. no more this signing bonus bologna and twindling contracts in year 12, salary/caphit identical every year of contract
- Salary cap 70 mill, min. 15 mill less than upper limit
- No increase in salary cap. Any excess in profits to be put into player escrows, player pensions, and help out struggling franchises.
- Contracts capped at 10 years
- 50/50 share revenue (currently 53-47 NHLPA)
- ELC to remain the same
- Re-alignment: Van to PAC, WIN to NW, Dal to CEN, CLB to SE.. none of this 7/8 team conferences
- If a suspension is appealled, it will be reviewed the captains of the other 28 teams (not the 2 in the game of the incident), not Gary Betteman.
I really like that idea. Did you just come up with that or has that been discussed before? It's kinda like the players policing themselves after the fact without the need of an enforcer.

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Old
08-14-2012, 07:04 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
I like the idea of a luxury tax. I miss the 90's screw parity.
.
So you'd be fine with us missing the playoffs year in and year out while losing all our young guys to free agency?

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Old
08-14-2012, 07:12 PM
  #138
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So you'd be fine with us missing the playoffs year in and year out while losing all our young guys to free agency?
Yep. Get this team competeitve again! No more of that "build from within" crap. I want to win now dammit!

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Old
08-14-2012, 07:13 PM
  #139
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There are a lot of excellent RFAs still out there (Benn, Kulikov, O'Reilly, Carlson, Subban, Kane, Omark) but I don't think any of them are in any risk of being offer sheeted since the team owning their rights would match. The exception is I guess if a team thinks the sky is the limit for Benn and would be willing to make him a top ten earner among forwards. Paying Benn $7.5M/year and giving up two first-round picks, a second round pick and a third round pick is probably too much though.

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Old
08-14-2012, 07:25 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricjib View Post
All I notice from that video is Quincey looks like a d-bag...

I don't get it,

Your all a bunch of rich ******, you make more money in a few years than most people make in there lives. Suck it up, resolve the issues.
not in a few years ... in a year

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Old
08-14-2012, 07:57 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
We are about 1 month away from the CBA expiring, and the NHLPA just tables their first official proposal now??... What have you been doing the past year ???? Seriously, what a joke. How can you expect to come to an agreement on 10000 things in a month when you do that? I mean, re-alignment alone will probably take a week to settle.

The game itself is fine IMO, just some legal changes I would like to see in the next CBA

- Contract cap hits = salary paid out .. no more this signing bonus bologna and twindling contracts in year 12, salary/caphit identical every year of contract
- Salary cap 70 mill, min. 15 mill less than upper limit
- No increase in salary cap. Any excess in profits to be put into player escrows, player pensions, and help out struggling franchises.
- Contracts capped at 10 years
- 50/50 share revenue (currently 53-47 NHLPA)
- ELC to remain the same
- Re-alignment: Van to PAC, WIN to NW, Dal to CEN, CLB to SE.. none of this 7/8 team conferences
- If a suspension is appealled, it will be reviewed the captains of the other 28 teams (not the 2 in the game of the incident), not Gary Betteman.
The current share of revenue is 57% for the NHLPA not 53%.

Captains reviewing appeal on suspensions would always yield a suspension to be maintained. As a captain of a competing team I want the other player to be suspended as long as possible, I'm not giving him a break.

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Old
08-14-2012, 08:03 PM
  #142
Bender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Luxury tax will kill the parity in the NHL since big teams will spend like drunk millionaires and the league will turn into NBA.
So be it. I'm at the point where I don't give a **** about the owners, they are idiots. Last time around, I was on the owners side and Bettman assured everyone that the biggest thing they needed was 'linkage'. They got that and now another lockout looms on the horizon? **** YOU! I understand that things have changed with the other major sports and you want to tweak it, fine. That offer they made to the players was borderline retarded and made them look like a bunch of vampires. Fans won't be divided this time around, I'd wager that 90-95% will be on the side of the players. Fehr has played this very well if you ask me.

We've seen 'supposed' small market teams like Columbus put in a lot of dough in trying to build a success...I think Fehr knows that with a luxury tax, most of the teams will be overspending anyways and that's good for the players.

Is it really any better than having teams being able to 'get out' of their horrible mistakes by burrying guys like Redden and Finger in the minors for years?? (I'd like to see them get rid of that clause by the way along with the contract structures designed to buy out the remaining years later on in the deal)

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08-14-2012, 08:04 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Peckerskull View Post
or MLB, which is even worse. They absolutely need to keep a hard cap, and especially the cap floor. Maybe allow each team to have a "Franchise Player" distinction for one guy that allows them to go above the cap. However, what the NHLPA is proposing is going backwards to the way it was pre-lockout, IMO.
The PA's offer still includes the cap. It's just not linked to revenue. It goes up by a couple percent each year.

They also want a broader and better definition of revenue, which I think is totally appropriate. These owners have always been full of crap in terms of how much they make owning an NHL team from all it's sources of revenue, and to have that tied to what the players have to give back, and what the cheaper teams get back in revenue sharing is ridiculous.

They're putting more onus on the owners for the revenue sharing, which is how it should be IMO. They're the ones handing out the ridiculous contracts despite crying about deals like that the year prior like Craig Leipold did. They're the ones making by far the bigger chunk of coin. They're the ones making the decisions to be cheap with rosters, while possibly taking advantage of a poorly defined revenue sharing plan. They and their GM's cause the problems with the contracts they throw out blindly, it's not the players fault for accepting them.

The owners talk about the risks they take in investments like arenas and such that ultimately bring more revenue that the players get a stake of, but none of them acknowledge the risk the players take with their physical and mental well being that the owners get a much bigger and cheaper return on than the players do in the first scenario.

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Old
08-14-2012, 08:11 PM
  #144
Bender
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Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
We are about 1 month away from the CBA expiring, and the NHLPA just tables their first official proposal now??... What have you been doing the past year ???? Seriously, what a joke. How can you expect to come to an agreement on 10000 things in a month when you do that? I mean, re-alignment alone will probably take a week to settle.

The game itself is fine IMO, just some legal changes I would like to see in the next CBA

- Contract cap hits = salary paid out .. no more this signing bonus bologna and twindling contracts in year 12, salary/caphit identical every year of contract
- Salary cap 70 mill, min. 15 mill less than upper limit
- No increase in salary cap. Any excess in profits to be put into player escrows, player pensions, and help out struggling franchises.
- Contracts capped at 10 years
- 50/50 share revenue (currently 53-47 NHLPA)
- ELC to remain the same
- Re-alignment: Van to PAC, WIN to NW, Dal to CEN, CLB to SE.. none of this 7/8 team conferences
- If a suspension is appealled, it will be reviewed the captains of the other 28 teams (not the 2 in the game of the incident), not Gary Betteman.
1) The players are perfectly fine with the current agreement, it's the owners who want to reduce the players' share of the pie. The league only put forth a proposal a few weeks ago and it was so frikkin' lopsided, it was a pathetic joke.

2) I think the idea is basically good but if it happens to be a guy who is friends with a lot of players and captains, perhaps he gets off too easy or if it's a jerk, gets too harsh of a penalty? Not sure on the captains but I definitely believe that the suspensions should come from the NHLPA itself and not the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yipperfan View Post
The current share of revenue is 57% for the NHLPA not 53%.

Captains reviewing appeal on suspensions would always yield a suspension to be maintained. As a captain of a competing team I want the other player to be suspended as long as possible, I'm not giving him a break.
That's another good point.

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Old
08-14-2012, 08:21 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yipperfan View Post
The current share of revenue is 57% for the NHLPA not 53%.

Captains reviewing appeal on suspensions would always yield a suspension to be maintained. As a captain of a competing team I want the other player to be suspended as long as possible, I'm not giving him a break.
Maybe... But with all 28 of them not being in the same division or the same conference I doubt they would treat it like that. I'd like to think you can give NHL players and their leaders a little more credit than that.

The NHL players are far different than NFL or NBA players, and that is one of the best things about the NHL. The players are way better role models most of the time.

The best part about this is that there is no one person to blame and label as a dictator like ShanyBan. It makes it a lot harder to come down on anyone for serious suspensions, and I would imagine quality players who are sick of certain types of hits and dirty plays would not exactly be less strict. Some kind of comity based disciplinary system involving the captains/players is a really good idea.


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 08-14-2012 at 08:27 PM.
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Old
08-14-2012, 10:57 PM
  #146
Pierce Hawthorne
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This is somewhat Off Topic but Im in an NHL 13 Gm Connected league here on HF boards, and we've been doing some trades and stuff before the game comes out, this is my current roster right now after some trades. My only untouchables going in were EJ Oreilly Landy and Varly, and this is now my roster.


Jones - Stastny - McGinn(No Changes there)
Landeskog - Oreilly - Downie(Again No changes)
Paranteau - Backlund - Cook
McCleod - Burish - Olver
Kobasew

Girardi - EJ
Giordano - Wilson
Hejda - Obyrne
Zanon

Varly
Giguere

Big Trades I made:

Traded Duchene and our 2nd at the time for Stepan Girardi a 1st and a late pick.
Traded Elliott to Chicago for a 1st + 5th
Traded Chicago 1st + Hishon + Stepan to Calgary for Sven Bartschi + Mark Giordano + Micheal Backlund.

So I now have Bartschi as top Prospect, and 12 Total picks in the 2013 draft(2 1sts). While making the Defense a Powerhouse of a Defense, and really not hurting the offense to much.

What do you guys think of this team, just for a laugh haha!

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Old
08-14-2012, 11:28 PM
  #147
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selling duchene right now would be like selling microsoft at it's lowest point, but that's just my opinion obviously.

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Old
08-15-2012, 12:49 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
This is somewhat Off Topic but Im in an NHL 13 Gm Connected league here on HF boards, and we've been doing some trades and stuff before the game comes out, this is my current roster right now after some trades. My only untouchables going in were EJ Oreilly Landy and Varly, and this is now my roster.


Jones - Stastny - McGinn(No Changes there)
Landeskog - Oreilly - Downie(Again No changes)
Paranteau - Backlund - Cook
McCleod - Burish - Olver
Kobasew

Girardi - EJ
Giordano - Wilson
Hejda - Obyrne
Zanon

Varly
Giguere

Big Trades I made:

Traded Duchene and our 2nd at the time for Stepan Girardi a 1st and a late pick.
Traded Elliott to Chicago for a 1st + 5th
Traded Chicago 1st + Hishon + Stepan to Calgary for Sven Bartschi + Mark Giordano + Micheal Backlund.

So I now have Bartschi as top Prospect, and 12 Total picks in the 2013 draft(2 1sts). While making the Defense a Powerhouse of a Defense, and really not hurting the offense to much.

What do you guys think of this team, just for a laugh haha!
Whoever did that Calgary trade got fleeced. In NHL 13 GM are you playing with them, or is it just a season sim? I personally wouldn't do the Duchene trade if you were playing with him, but overall, solid job.

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Old
08-15-2012, 05:17 AM
  #149
Ivan13
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
There is no way the owners give up the salary cap, after losing a year of hockey to get it.
Technically with luxury tax they wouldn't give up on the cap. For instance if you're up to cap you can't sign FA's to a deal like Parise got, you can sign them to veteran minimum and contracts similar to that, you can also add payroll (or cap hit) trough trades (in case you're over the cap limit), but those salaries you're trading for can be higher than the ones your trading away only for a certain percentege which is defined by the CBA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
- Contract cap hits = salary paid out .. no more this signing bonus bologna and twindling contracts in year 12, salary/caphit identical every year of contract
This won't happen, I would propose a deal in which the signing bonus can be higher than actual salary only by 50%, for instance if some is paid 4mil in actual salary, the highest signing bonus he can receive is 6mil.

Quote:
- Salary cap 70 mill, min. 15 mill less than upper limit
This is what we had in the last CBA, I think smaller teams would prefer that the cap floor is worked out based on a percentage of the cap limit.

Quote:
- No increase in salary cap. Any excess in profits to be put into player escrows, player pensions, and help out struggling franchises.
That's hard to accomplish.

Quote:
- Contracts capped at 10 years
I would go even lower to something like 7 year, but I don't see NHLPA accepting this.

Quote:
- 50/50 share revenue (currently 53-47 NHLPA)

It's actually 57-43 and there's no way NHLPA goes under 55% and even that is pretty tough to expect.

Quote:
- ELC to remain the same
I like that.

Quote:
- Re-alignment: Van to PAC, WIN to NW, Dal to CEN, CLB to SE.. none of this 7/8 team conferences
I like the past conference re-alingnment proposal better.

Quote:
- If a suspension is appealled, it will be reviewed the captains of the other 28 teams (not the 2 in the game of the incident), not Gary Betteman.
I don't like this at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
There are a lot of excellent RFAs still out there (Benn, Kulikov, O'Reilly, Carlson, Subban, Kane, Omark) but I don't think any of them are in any risk of being offer sheeted since the team owning their rights would match. The exception is I guess if a team thinks the sky is the limit for Benn and would be willing to make him a top ten earner among forwards. Paying Benn $7.5M/year and giving up two first-round picks, a second round pick and a third round pick is probably too much though.
I agree and I think that the biggest reason they're still unsigned are this ongoing CBA talks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
So be it. I'm at the point where I don't give a **** about the owners, they are idiots. Last time around, I was on the owners side and Bettman assured everyone that the biggest thing they needed was 'linkage'. They got that and now another lockout looms on the horizon? **** YOU! I understand that things have changed with the other major sports and you want to tweak it, fine. That offer they made to the players was borderline retarded and made them look like a bunch of vampires. Fans won't be divided this time around, I'd wager that 90-95% will be on the side of the players. Fehr has played this very well if you ask me.

We've seen 'supposed' small market teams like Columbus put in a lot of dough in trying to build a success...I think Fehr knows that with a luxury tax, most of the teams will be overspending anyways and that's good for the players.

Is it really any better than having teams being able to 'get out' of their horrible mistakes by burrying guys like Redden and Finger in the minors for years?? (I'd like to see them get rid of that clause by the way along with the contract structures designed to buy out the remaining years later on in the deal)
I'm not a fan of theirs either, but I'm not interested in watching a league in which only 5 or 6 teams have a reasonable chance of winning the Cup, while 20+ teams play for table scraps.


Last edited by Ivan13: 08-15-2012 at 11:54 AM.
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Old
08-15-2012, 08:37 AM
  #150
Pierce Hawthorne
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Whoever did that Calgary trade got fleeced. In NHL 13 GM are you playing with them, or is it just a season sim? I personally wouldn't do the Duchene trade if you were playing with him, but overall, solid job.
We play the first 15 games and the last 10, rest is simmed. Duchene was a tough one to let go. But I ultimatly figured that Stepan was a great replacment for Duchene and really can play the 3rd line, and Girardi solves the problem for Defense. And I got to move up a decent bit in the draft.

Also last night had another blockbuster trade haha.

Traded Bartschi + Siemens + Pickard + 1st for Eberle + Stoll + 3rd + 7th.

So My roster now looks like this:

Eberle - Stas - Jones
Landy - Radar - Downie
PAP - Stoll - McGinn
Backlund - Burish - Cook
Kobasew

Girardi - EJ
Giordano - Wilson
Hejda - Obyrne

Varly - Giggy

Very happy with my overall depth right now, that Top 9 and Top 4 is fantastic to me. Only problem is I dont have a great prospect pool anymore(Only Barrie Sgarbossa and Gaucne really), but with so much young talent I almost dont need any prospects at this point.

Pierce Hawthorne is online now  
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