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Old
08-15-2012, 12:55 PM
  #151
Razor29
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I have the Avs in a sim league as well. No roster movements yet.

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08-15-2012, 12:58 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
It's actually 57-43 and there's no way NHLPA goes under 55% and even that is pretty tough to expect.

I'm not a fan of theirs either, but I'm not interested in watching a league in which only 5 or 6 teams have a reasonable chance of winning the Cup, while 20+ teams play for table scraps.
1) When it's all said and done, the players will absolutely need to accept something closer to 50% than 55% or it's going to be a long lockout.

2) It's not like it's worked wonders for the Yankees. The problem in baseball is their poor playoff structure (it sucks to see the Blue Jays out of the playoffs by the middle of summer, every year)

I think there can be a reasonable way to allow teams to go over the cap as long as the penalty is significant. I would cap that as well.

For example: (max team cap set at $70M for this example)

- Team goes over the cap by 0-5% = Forfeits a 3rd round pick (extra $3.5M to work with)
- Team goes over the cap by 6-10% = Forfeits a 2nd round pick (extra $7M to work with)
- Team goes over the cap by 11-15% = Forfeits a 1st round pick (extra $10.5M to work with)
- Team goes over the cap by 16%-20% = Forfeits a 1st + 2nd + 3rd round picks (extra $14M to work with)

* Maximum is 20%
* At the end of the season, the calculation would be made to see the highest team salary reached and the penalty imposed.

So basically, you would have teams that don't give a crap about drafting having potentially an $84M cap to work with but at the same time, would be forfeiting their right to draft in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds. I think there would be without a doubt, a bunch of teams (especially contenders) that would be 'going for it' every year but it would come at a steep price.

This is NOT something I've given a lot of though to but just threw something together real quick. The numbers and percentages and penalties can be whatever you want them to be, as long as they make sense not to necessarily encourage it but to allow it to happen in certain circumstances.

I think there is certainly a way, to give teams some more flexibility, without opening the flood gates wide open like the way baseball is currently.

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Old
08-15-2012, 01:09 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
1) When it's all said and done, the players will absolutely need to accept something closer to 50% than 55% or it's going to be a long lockout.

2) It's not like it's worked wonders for the Yankees. The problem in baseball is their poor playoff structure (it sucks to see the Blue Jays out of the playoffs by the middle of summer, every year)

I think there can be a reasonable way to allow teams to go over the cap as long as the penalty is significant. I would cap that as well.

For example: (max team cap set at $70M for this example)

- Team goes over the cap by 0-5% = Forfeits a 3rd round pick (extra $3.5M to work with)
- Team goes over the cap by 6-10% = Forfeits a 2nd round pick (extra $7M to work with)
- Team goes over the cap by 11-15% = Forfeits a 1st round pick (extra $10.5M to work with)
- Team goes over the cap by 16%-20% = Forfeits a 1st + 2nd + 3rd round picks (extra $14M to work with)

* Maximum is 20%
* At the end of the season, the calculation would be made to see the highest team salary reached and the penalty imposed.

So basically, you would have teams that don't give a crap about drafting having potentially an $84M cap to work with but at the same time, would be forfeiting their right to draft in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds. I think there would be without a doubt, a bunch of teams (especially contenders) that would be 'going for it' every year but it would come at a steep price.

This is NOT something I've given a lot of though to but just threw something together real quick. The numbers and percentages and penalties can be whatever you want them to be, as long as they make sense not to necessarily encourage it but to allow it to happen in certain circumstances.

I think there is certainly a way, to give teams some more flexibility, without opening the flood gates wide open like the way baseball is currently.
I compared NHL to the NBA, not MLB, MLB isn't comparable to todays NHL in any way. If they allow the luxury tax in the NHL and remove the hard cap they should also implement some other NBA CBA clauses like Bird rights, max term and money amounts (of course with the team of the player entering FA having a right to offer more money than 29 other teams) and the sign and trade scenario.

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Old
08-15-2012, 01:10 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
1) When it's all said and done, the players will absolutely need to accept something closer to 50% than 55% or it's going to be a long lockout.

2) It's not like it's worked wonders for the Yankees. The problem in baseball is their poor playoff structure (it sucks to see the Blue Jays out of the playoffs by the middle of summer, every year)

I think there can be a reasonable way to allow teams to go over the cap as long as the penalty is significant. I would cap that as well.

For example: (max team cap set at $70M for this example)

- Team goes over the cap by 0-5% = Forfeits a 3rd round pick (extra $3.5M to work with)
- Team goes over the cap by 6-10% = Forfeits a 2nd round pick (extra $7M to work with)
- Team goes over the cap by 11-15% = Forfeits a 1st round pick (extra $10.5M to work with)
- Team goes over the cap by 16%-20% = Forfeits a 1st + 2nd + 3rd round picks (extra $14M to work with)

* Maximum is 20%
* At the end of the season, the calculation would be made to see the highest team salary reached and the penalty imposed.

So basically, you would have teams that don't give a crap about drafting having potentially an $84M cap to work with but at the same time, would be forfeiting their right to draft in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds. I think there would be without a doubt, a bunch of teams (especially contenders) that would be 'going for it' every year but it would come at a steep price.

This is NOT something I've given a lot of though to but just threw something together real quick. The numbers and percentages and penalties can be whatever you want them to be, as long as they make sense not to necessarily encourage it but to allow it to happen in certain circumstances.

I think there is certainly a way, to give teams some more flexibility, without opening the flood gates wide open like the way baseball is currently.
You're system wouldn't really work very well unless they would get compensatory picks for the later rounds back.

What if let's say 15 teams are gunning for it, the first three rounds would have 45 players drafted, which means that 45 players that would've been drafted are not at all that year (obviously the players that would've been 6th or 7th round picks)

And let's be even more extreme: Let's say that all 30 teams are going for it.
Should there only be half a draft left starting from the 4th round? That'd be horrible and I don't think they will allow that to happen even though the chance of that happening is low.

When would the amount spent be counted or is it the highest total they have ever had. How about injury replacements, trades of players that happens almost simultaneously. It would suck to lose picks for having a roster with too big of a salary for a couple of hours.
All of this makes this into a very probable mess.

But the compensatory stuff should be hard enough to avert most teams to not go that route.
FA block (i.e. not able to sign FAs), not able to trade, fortification of 1-5th round picks (no matter how much over, but fear of the thing I told about still would exist) should be considered.
I doubt many would go for it with no draft picks in first 5 rounds for next 2-3 years+ FA block for 2-3 years as well.
This of course as long as there is a strict and clear rule of when compensatory would need to happen.


Last edited by Nzap: 08-15-2012 at 01:22 PM.
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Old
08-15-2012, 01:41 PM
  #155
Bender
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Originally Posted by Nzap View Post
You're system wouldn't really work very well unless they would get compensatory picks for the later rounds back.

What if let's say 15 teams are gunning for it, the first three rounds would have 45 players drafted, which means that 45 players that would've been drafted are not at all that year (obviously the players that would've been 6th or 7th round picks)

And let's be even more extreme: Let's say that all 30 teams are going for it.
Should there only be half a draft left starting from the 4th round? That'd be horrible and I don't think they will allow that to happen even though the chance of that happening is low.


When would the amount spent be counted or is it the highest total they have ever had. How about injury replacements, trades of players that happens almost simultaneously. It would suck to lose picks for having a roster with too big of a salary for a couple of hours.
All of this makes this into a very probable mess.

But the compensatory stuff should be hard enough to avert most teams to not go that route.
FA block (i.e. not able to sign FAs), not able to trade, fortification of 1-5th round picks (no matter how much over, but fear of the thing I told about still would exist) should be considered.
I doubt many would go for it with no draft picks in first 5 rounds for next 2-3 years+ FA block for 2-3 years as well.
This of course as long as there is a strict and clear rule of when compensatory would need to happen.
You kind of missed the point.

I was simply illustrating that there can be creative ways to allow for that sort of thing. Obviously if half the league is doing it, then the penalties are not stiff enough for that kind of thing to happen.

Like I said, I came up with this in 5 minutes, I haven't been thinking about it for weeks or months.

To answer your question, it would be the highest total the team would of had during the season. It's not that big of mess, for injuries it's the same as it is now and teams are currently respecting the cap. It's not really different than what they have now, they are complying under a hard cap and know there are penalties when going over. Don't want to get penalized? Don't go over.

There *could* be 'compensatory picks' distributed to them if you really think it makes a difference and added to the bottom of the 7th round, starting at #210 based on regular season standings. However, I prefer the idea that they completely LOSE those picks instead of trading down. So there are 201 players selected in a given year instead of 210, big woop. Teams can still invite undrafted players to their training camps like the leafs did with Heard and the sharks did with Sgarbossa. In the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal as far as the draft goes.





Again, the idea is to allow 'some' flexibility for teams that clearly don't mind going that route but there are consequences when they do. I didn't even mention any kind of $$$$ tax that could be levied as well on top of that.

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Old
08-15-2012, 01:42 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
I compared NHL to the NBA, not MLB, MLB isn't comparable to todays NHL in any way. If they allow the luxury tax in the NHL and remove the hard cap they should also implement some other NBA CBA clauses like Bird rights, max term and money amounts (of course with the team of the player entering FA having a right to offer more money than 29 other teams) and the sign and trade scenario.
I don't follow the NBA. What are Bird Rights?

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08-15-2012, 01:47 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
You kind of missed the point.

I was simply illustrating that there can be creative ways to allow for that sort of thing. Obviously if half the league is doing it, then the penalties are not stiff enough for that kind of thing to happen.

Like I said, I came up with this in 5 minutes, I haven't been thinking about it for weeks or months.
Did I miss the point though?
I agreed that there should have to bee stiff penalties so they would have to think twice before going over the cap.
And also as I said, those were extreme examples.

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Old
08-15-2012, 01:49 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
I compared NHL to the NBA, not MLB, MLB isn't comparable to todays NHL in any way. If they allow the luxury tax in the NHL and remove the hard cap they should also implement some other NBA CBA clauses like Bird rights, max term and money amounts (of course with the team of the player entering FA having a right to offer more money than 29 other teams) and the sign and trade scenario.
the NBA system as a whole wouldn't work as well in the NHL.
different animals. some things could be carried over but the bird rights,luxury tax and S&T would be harder to do in the NHL over a long period of time.

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08-15-2012, 01:51 PM
  #159
Ivan13
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I don't follow the NBA. What are Bird Rights?
http://basketball.about.com/od/colle...ird-rights.htm

Quote:
Players eligible to be signed under the Bird Exception are said to have "Bird Rights." Players must spend three years with a team to earn full Bird Rights, two years for "Early Bird Rights."

For players, having Bird Rights means a lot more flexibility in contract negotiations -- in most cases, players stand to make much more money re-signing with their own teams, rather than leaving in free agency.
Quote:
Perhaps the most well-known of the NBA's salary cap exceptions, it is so named because the Boston Celtics were the first team permitted to exceed the salary cap to re-sign one of their own players (in that case, Larry Bird). Free agents who qualify for this exception are called "qualifying veteran free agents" or "Bird Free Agents" in the CBA, and this exception falls under the auspices of the Veteran Free Agent exception. In essence, the Larry Bird exception allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, at an amount up to the maximum salary. To qualify as a Bird free agent, a player must have played three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. Players claimed after being amnestied have their Bird rights transferred to their new team. Other players claimed off waivers are not eligible for the full Bird exception, but may qualify for the early Bird exception. Prior to an arbitrator ruling in June 2012, all players that were waived and changed teams lost their Bird rights. This means a player can obtain "Bird rights" by playing under three one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any combination thereof. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. Under the 2011 CBA, Bird-exception contracts can be up to five years in length, down from six under the 2005 CBA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_sal...Bird_exception

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08-15-2012, 01:53 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
the NBA system as a whole wouldn't work as well in the NHL.
different animals. some things could be carried over but the bird rights,luxury tax and S&T would be harder to do in the NHL over a long period of time.
I know it wouldn't and that's why I'm against it.

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08-15-2012, 03:22 PM
  #161
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Sounds like bird law to me.

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08-15-2012, 05:29 PM
  #162
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Sounds like bird law to me.

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08-16-2012, 12:35 AM
  #163
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I've been seeing a lot of car advertisements on HFBoards ever since that one dude compared Stastny to a car...

Chevy... Michelin... Tirebuyer.com... Chevy again... now a variety of anti-drunk driving ads

I do not need a Chevy Silverado or Malibu.


Last edited by Lonewolfe2015: 08-16-2012 at 12:47 AM.
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08-16-2012, 01:30 AM
  #164
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I see none. Feels good.

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08-16-2012, 03:00 AM
  #165
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We play the first 15 games and the last 10, rest is simmed. Duchene was a tough one to let go. But I ultimatly figured that Stepan was a great replacment for Duchene and really can play the 3rd line, and Girardi solves the problem for Defense. And I got to move up a decent bit in the draft.

Also last night had another blockbuster trade haha.

Traded Bartschi + Siemens + Pickard + 1st for Eberle + Stoll + 3rd + 7th.

So My roster now looks like this:

Eberle - Stas - Jones
Landy - Radar - Downie
PAP - Stoll - McGinn
Backlund - Burish - Cook
Kobasew

Girardi - EJ
Giordano - Wilson
Hejda - Obyrne

Varly - Giggy

Very happy with my overall depth right now, that Top 9 and Top 4 is fantastic to me. Only problem is I dont have a great prospect pool anymore(Only Barrie Sgarbossa and Gaucne really), but with so much young talent I almost dont need any prospects at this point.
It's interesting to see that trade, TBH I donno if I like that from a sim standpoint, since most leagues are 3 weeks/day? It really comes down to how the prospects are rated in the game, and we don't even know do we?

On second thought, I think you come on top, since EA seems to undervalue some prospects a lot. I doubt Siemens will become a top pairing D and Bartschi will become as good as eberle since EA has a crush on certain prospects, and I doubt it's those two. Pickard became a lot worse in NHL 12 as well, I doubt he has a higher rating in 13. So after evaluating it from a game standpoint, I like the move.

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08-16-2012, 09:35 AM
  #166
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I've been seeing a lot of car advertisements on HFBoards ever since that one dude compared Stastny to a car...

Chevy... Michelin... Tirebuyer.com... Chevy again... now a variety of anti-drunk driving ads

I do not need a Chevy Silverado or Malibu.
The joy of paying to use a website is available to cure your ills

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08-16-2012, 01:47 PM
  #167
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It's interesting to see that trade, TBH I donno if I like that from a sim standpoint, since most leagues are 3 weeks/day? It really comes down to how the prospects are rated in the game, and we don't even know do we?

On second thought, I think you come on top, since EA seems to undervalue some prospects a lot. I doubt Siemens will become a top pairing D and Bartschi will become as good as eberle since EA has a crush on certain prospects, and I doubt it's those two. Pickard became a lot worse in NHL 12 as well, I doubt he has a higher rating in 13. So after evaluating it from a game standpoint, I like the move.
Yea that was why I did it haha. Prospects always seem to be underrated in EA games, and Siemens epecially. I dont excpect him to devellop into anything in the game, same with Pickard. Bartschi might be good, but his ceiling is likely what Eberle is now. Made this trade with another huge Avs fan haha, so it was fun working it out with him. Took 4 hours of back to back messages.

Also made a trade for Kopitar. was Stastny + Barrie + 1st for Kopitar + Pick. Found out that you dont get to make your own picks in the Draft the game sims the draft and all picks, so now Im getting rid of all my picks cause I dont trust EA lol.

New roster:

Eberle - Kopitar - Jones
Landy - Radar - Downie
Pap - Stoll - McGinn
Backlund - Burish - Cook
Kobasew/McCleod

Girardi - EJ
Giordano - Wilson
Hejda - Obyrne

Varly - Giggy

And might soon be getting Yandle and only roster player I would lose is Hejda! Prospect pool would be dry as can be, but I would have so much young NHL talent that I wont need any prospects for a while haha.

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08-16-2012, 03:36 PM
  #168
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I hate to be "that" guy but this isn't a thread about video games or sim or fantasy leagues.

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08-16-2012, 05:03 PM
  #169
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Well fine then :-p

Anyone see that proposal by the Nucks fan just then in the Tor-Col thread....

It was so bad even Braden Calzner was defending the Avs, I didnt think I would see the day tbh.

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08-16-2012, 05:25 PM
  #170
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NEB isn't a Nucks fan.

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08-16-2012, 05:39 PM
  #171
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NEB isn't a Nucks fan.
Wasnt NEB, was a guy named Extras, was actually serious and was a Nucks fan.

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08-16-2012, 05:45 PM
  #172
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It was so bad even Braden Calzner was defending the Avs, I didnt think I would see the day tbh.
No doubt, I had to do a triple-take on that one to make sure he wasn't being sarcastic.

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08-16-2012, 06:40 PM
  #173
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NEB isn't a Nucks fan.

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08-16-2012, 06:42 PM
  #174
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Haha are you really that surprised people don't think you're an Avs fan after reading some of your posts?

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08-16-2012, 08:46 PM
  #175
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No doubt, I had to do a triple-take on that one to make sure he wasn't being sarcastic.
Haha yea, same. For both of them to. At first I was like, theres no way that trade is serious, then the guy started defending the trade and I was like :O.

And then Braden Calzner actually started defending the Avs, I couldnt believe that either. Never though I'd see the day tbh.

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