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Depth at center and defense strengths of San Jose Sharks system

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Old
10-28-2012, 09:00 PM
  #1
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Depth at center and defense strengths of San Jose Sharks system

 
The San Jose Sharks have long believed in the philosophy of taking things slow, and letting young players develop to earn the opportunity to play with the big club. Unfortunately for the Sharks in the last five years, there have not been many opportunities earned.



Since the 2008 draft, the Sharks have drafted a total of 32 players but only one of those (Jason Demers) can be considered an NHL regular. The fish have one of the worst draft pick to NHL conversion rates in the league during that span, giving ample ammunition to the critics who tend to take a “what have you done lately” mentality.… read more



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10-28-2012, 09:32 PM
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The Nemesis
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The Fish?


Really?


I don't mean to be critical right off the bat again after last article, but c'mon. Really?

I have not yet finished the article. I promise to offer a better full assessment when I can.

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Old
10-28-2012, 09:48 PM
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The Nemesis
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Ok proper assessment time:


I really liked the article overall. It was thorough, informative, and I think fairly even-handed/unbiased. Lots of info to soak in and I liked that it managed to touch on a lot of the players that don't always get recognition in prospect discussions.

My only real concern is your writing style, but this isn't an english classroom and it's nothing that's concretely or specifically wrong, so it's not really worth getting into.

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10-28-2012, 10:19 PM
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Somebody has been reading my posts on Nieto and O'Regan.

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10-29-2012, 12:22 AM
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Craig Fischer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Ok proper assessment time:


I really liked the article overall. It was thorough, informative, and I think fairly even-handed/unbiased. Lots of info to soak in and I liked that it managed to touch on a lot of the players that don't always get recognition in prospect discussions.

My only real concern is your writing style, but this isn't an english classroom and it's nothing that's concretely or specifically wrong, so it's not really worth getting into.
I come from more of an English (creative writing) background than a Journalism background and I think you're noticing that. I know the article itself got cut down (I had all these amazing Lord of the Ring quotes and references that really tied everything together) and that might have altered the path I was leading, but I'm not complaining because the error filled mess I handed into my editor was probably impossible to read--but with LOTR quotes. I'm very thankful for all of Brad's help!


(And for those curious, I had something like, A Sharks prospect is like a Tolkien Wizard. He is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to--it was less professional, there was a lot of inside jokes about Matt P, and I loved the, "Very few NHL organizations boast the riches the Sharks have at center. Quit Laughing." It was amazing but I see why it was cut.)

Also--if you want to share those problems you had with me either here or in PM, I'd be happy to work on them. I'm always looking to improve.


Last edited by Craig Fischer: 10-29-2012 at 12:29 AM.
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10-29-2012, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Fischer View Post
I come from more of an English (creative writing) background than a Journalism background and I think you're noticing that. I know the article itself got cut down (I had all these amazing Lord of the Ring quotes and references that really tied everything together) and that might have altered the path I was leading, but I'm not complaining because the error filled mess I handed into my editor was probably impossible to read--but with LOTR quotes. I'm very thankful for all of Brad's help!


(And for those curious, I had something like, A Sharks prospect is like a Tolkien Wizard. He is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to--it was less professional, there was a lot of inside jokes about Matt P, and I loved the, "Very few NHL organizations boast the riches the Sharks have at center. Quit Laughing." It was amazing but I see why it was cut.)

Also--if you want to share those problems you had with me either here or in PM, I'd be happy to work on them. I'm always looking to improve.
That explains it. I have a background that includes both English and journalism (though far less of the latter than the former), and the issue I had was mostly that it read like an english paper. Journalist pieces shouldn't be stark, barren, or simplistic but they do lend themselves to being a little more toned down in terms of how, for lack of a more accurate or appropriate term, purple it is. The tricky/annoying thing I found about doing journalist pieces after coming from several years of English is trying to be a little more utilitarian than English training drills us to be, but not going overboard and being so blunt or no-frills that it ends up entirely beige. There's a subtle and kind of frustrating balancing act between allowing yourself to be witty or descriptive or creative without drowning out the core points for which the article was made.

It's not as much of a criticism as I made it out to be. Truthfully, it's probably a good problem to have, because at least it means you have command of the language (which sometimes seems to be a problem with newbie journalists. I even remember in high school my English teacher, who was also the journalism teacher, lamented the fact that it felt like journalism was recommended to the students who needed an English discipline but couldn't handle the rigors of "real" English. ). So improving is more about ironing out the kinks than sharpening any skills which are lacking.


And I do apologise for throwing out the TV Tropes definitions. Dozens of article binges there have crept into how I think about a lot of things, including writing. The end result is that I've even started thinking in terms of trope terminology and usability.

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10-29-2012, 05:38 AM
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I thought the article provided decent research. Certainly much more informed compared to previous articles.

I don't mind the style of writing at all. I think what I would like to hear more about is what we can look forward to prospect wise for what we currently lack.

Goalscorers (Pavelski and Couture) and mean, and nasty D-men (we've been missing since Rob Blake).

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10-29-2012, 06:07 AM
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Your assessment of Alex Stalock is, to be kind, 100% wrong.

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10-29-2012, 08:52 AM
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Everyone here already knows everything there is to know about the Sharks, except that the GM should be fired.

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10-29-2012, 09:50 AM
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and this was moved to the Flames board because?

Edit: oh god, I'm on the wrong board... ><
Edit: Oh, I see. Seems it was originally posted on the Flames board.

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10-29-2012, 10:10 AM
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Out of curiousity, how do you get your information on these prospects? Are all of these opinions based on watching them play?

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10-29-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 210 View Post
Your assessment of Alex Stalock is, to be kind, 100% wrong.
Oh good, I was worried when reading the article somehow I'd missed that Stalock had suddenly started sucking.

So he's still awesome, right 210 (and other Worcester watchers)? Does it look like he's back to 100% health-wise, or is he still getting back into it?

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10-29-2012, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazedZooChimp View Post
Oh good, I was worried when reading the article somehow I'd missed that Stalock had suddenly started sucking.

So he's still awesome, right 210 (and other Worcester watchers)? Does it look like he's back to 100% health-wise, or is he still getting back into it?
Yes, Stalock is fine...had a "just short of" great weekend. I would say he's not 100% yet, but he's certainly heading in that direction.

When you just look at numbers you can't get a feel for how well (or badly) someone is playing. Stalock's numbers are not very good right now (2-2-0-0, 3.23, .881) because that includes a game where he allowed 7 goals. In that game he'd likely want the first goal back (he misplayed the puck behind the net and couldn't scramble back into the net) but the other six were a total failure in his defense.

Sateri, on the other hand, is totally lost out there...and has been since late last season.

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10-29-2012, 03:31 PM
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Craig Fischer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 210 View Post
Your assessment of Alex Stalock is, to be kind, 100% wrong.
This? "Fortunately for Sateri, Stalock is struggling even more and that starting position could be his by midseason if there is not a drastic turnaround by his comrade in net."

Statistically Stalock's doing better (keep in mind I wrote this before the second Bridgeport game)--but we're looking at things a bit deeper here. Stalock's positioning and reflexes are a huge concern and at 25 years of age, even at the goaltending position (where you expect a longer process) this is a bit of a positional outlier. He's constantly caught off-guard with shots from the outside to the point (it's not even just on screened shots) where I believe puck tracking is a significant issue. Notice how he makes a lot of "highlight-esque saves"? I feel it's because he's out of position or he's just not picking up the puck in the first place to the point where a normal routine "blah" save could have just as easily gotten the job done. From my perspective the wins have come from luck. Luck in that when he's out of position he's getting shots flung directly at him with wide open nets, and through strength of opposition--Bridgeport is not a very good team, especially on the offensive end-- and I feel like by late Novemeber those statistics (which aren't very good even from a statistic point of view) could get worse (they might actually get better first though, considering the Sharks play Providence twice in a short stretch and they have real problems). I think there needs to be changes in his game if he's ever going to be an NHL goaltender.

I understand there are some Stalock fans here, and I mean not to trample on that with my assessment. Remember this is prognostication, and it's how I see things and unfortunately I don't roll around in a time machine--it's not right or wrong, it's opinion. We all see something different when we watch the ice and the players that play on it.

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10-29-2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 210 View Post
Yes, Stalock is fine...had a "just short of" great weekend. I would say he's not 100% yet, but he's certainly heading in that direction.

When you just look at numbers you can't get a feel for how well (or badly) someone is playing. Stalock's numbers are not very good right now (2-2-0-0, 3.23, .881) because that includes a game where he allowed 7 goals. In that game he'd likely want the first goal back (he misplayed the puck behind the net and couldn't scramble back into the net) but the other six were a total failure in his defense.

Sateri, on the other hand, is totally lost out there...and has been since late last season.
Stalock makes a lot of risky decisions. As for Sateri, I think besides a bit of a confidence lull, his issues are purely mechanical and can be corrected. Stalock on the other hand is struggling with things that can't really be coached or ingrained into a player. This is why I think, even at Sateri's current position, he stands for a bigger potential. I feel like Sateri's game can be fixed, where Stalock's can't.

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10-29-2012, 03:40 PM
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never mind, I know you aren't watching the games

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10-29-2012, 03:42 PM
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i know that big physical dmen take time to develop, but is there anyone who realistically thinks that petrecki isn't gonna basically be a bust? someone who if he manages to pull it together will at best be a 6th dman, a very very poor man's douglas murray? for a first round pick and someone i was really excited about back in 2007, that's awfully disappointing.

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10-29-2012, 04:13 PM
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Craig Fischer
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never mind, I know you aren't watching the games
Hey man, I take offense to that. It's fine to disagree, but how can you state something like that? Not only is it offensive, it's hypocritical (commenting on something you've never seen). I've taken my time (and my money) to invest in AHL Live specifically for this writing position. I've seen every game (not always live, but that's what the archive section is for). Again, feel free to disagree, in fact I encourage it because it creates discussion, but I see no point in calling me out. By all means though, post the 24/7 surveillance you have on me not watching games.

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10-29-2012, 05:36 PM
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There's a reason why in the internet age scouts still show up at games to watch players in person...because watching video makes you miss out on a ton of stuff.

When you watch Friday's and Sunday's games compare them to the Albany loss and Saturday's game...the obvious difference is the reason why the WorSharks beat Bridgeport twice. Come back and report what that difference was.

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10-30-2012, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Fischer View Post
Stalock makes a lot of risky decisions. As for Sateri, I think besides a bit of a confidence lull, his issues are purely mechanical and can be corrected. Stalock on the other hand is struggling with things that can't really be coached or ingrained into a player. This is why I think, even at Sateri's current position, he stands for a bigger potential. I feel like Sateri's game can be fixed, where Stalock's can't.

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10-30-2012, 12:27 AM
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My only real concern is your writing style, but this isn't an english classroom and it's nothing that's concretely or specifically wrong, so it's not really worth getting into.
At least he doesn't use ellipses.

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10-30-2012, 03:50 AM
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never mind, I know you aren't watching the games
I really do appreciate your unofficial scouting reports and you keeping us antsy fans updated on the prospect pool, but I have to agree with Craig on this one. Your opinion may be valid and he could very well be wrong for all I know, but the least you could do is generate discussion (cite where exactly you disagree, provide evidence to support your own point) instead of blatantly insulting him like that.

All your post does is make you seem elitist. Your response really doesn't provide anything productive and all I can see it as is an ego boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 210 View Post
There's a reason why in the internet age scouts still show up at games to watch players in person...because watching video makes you miss out on a ton of stuff.

When you watch Friday's and Sunday's games compare them to the Albany loss and Saturday's game...the obvious difference is the reason why the WorSharks beat Bridgeport twice. Come back and report what that difference was.
Yeah, something like that would have been better in the first place, though still a tad antagonistic for whatever reason. I kind of disagree with your opinion of video though, at least for the goalie position. It's not like other positions where they may be doing the little things not on camera. If you have a different opinion than him regarding our forwards or defensemen then I can see an argument against video analysis, but you really only disagreed on the one position where video makes sense. There's a reason players go over video to find problems in their game, and I think that goalies probably have the most to gain from it.

As a whole, posters have been wary of Sharks articles because writers tend to look only at the stat sheet and fail to watch games to make an honest assessment. I don't think this is one of those times (at the very least it is heading in the right direction), and I think it's disrespectful to the writer when you play it off like that. He even went through the effort to write a detailed response to your first post, whether you agree with it or not, but your response to that basically read as "you're talking out of your ***." We want more coverage and better analysis, but we definitely won't get it if we keep treating people that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoostahShaahks View Post
Like I said, he may be completely wrong on his analysis, but at least generate discussion and say where he is wrong instead of being judgemental with no evidence. The best way a writer can improve is through peer review after all.


Last edited by ChubbChubby: 10-30-2012 at 04:43 AM.
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10-30-2012, 11:07 AM
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Just chiming in to thank you for the story. Of everything I've read over the last couple seasons, I think that this was the most thorough 'one-stop-shop' for information regarding our depth. From an outside perspective, I think you did an admirable job (and I don't mean that to be a back-handed compliment).

In the future, I'd like to see more of the draft-year comparables like you touched on briefly. Context like that is helpful when analyzing development and was a nice touch in this article.

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10-30-2012, 08:20 PM
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I liked the article and the analysis a lot. The creative writing background is good and can work, but didn't quite in this article. Plenty of time to perfect your unique style as you go forward tho.

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10-31-2012, 04:26 PM
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Nice job, Craig. Really enjoyed the article!

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