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The MLD 2012 Thread II

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Old
08-06-2012, 09:28 PM
  #126
Selfish Man
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With selection #234, the Pittsburgh Hornets select:

Harold "Slim" Halderson, D



Click for seventieslord's bio

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08-06-2012, 09:36 PM
  #127
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Okay, I officially regret the trade. After watching Slim fall so far, we were TWO picks away from getting him...

I'll post the composite bio I just assembled on him.

seventieslord drafted him in the MLD11 and we were all so impressed that Slim was voted by us GMs as a draft all-star. Then Hedberg drafted him on his MLD 2010 championship squad. Both of them provided tons of great bio stuff that are convincing of his greatness, deserving main all-time draft extra skater status.

I hadn't realized he was undrafted this year to date until my co-GM submitted his name among those for blueline consideration a couple of days ago. I immediately said it should be our next pick and I have spent a couple of hours assembling bio info on him.

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08-06-2012, 09:36 PM
  #128
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RW/D Haldor/Harold "Slim" Halderson, the 6'3 200 lbs. fast and physical rusher up the right side known for his stickhandling and passing. He began on a military team in Winnipeg, as an 18 year old helping take it to the Allan Cup, where he scored 4 goals and 7 points in the 4 games, adding 6 PIMs. He then joined the Winnipeg Falcons, becoming the right hand man to Frank Fredrickson. Slim averaged over a goal a game, an assist a game and two PIMs per game in the 1920 season in which he headed again to the Allan Cup, this time with the Falcons, he scoring 4 goals, 10 points in the 6 games, with 6 PIMs. The impressive 20 year old joined Team Canada for the 1920 Olympics and scored 9 goals in 3 games, including the first goal ever by a hockey player in an Olympic Finals, in the gold-medal win, second only to Fredrickson in tourney scoring. He then played in Saskatoon for a season before moving out to play five years in Victoria, moving from right wing back to right defense. In his first season in the PCHA he was a 2nd team all-star and in his second year he was a 1st team all-star, both seasons top-3 in blueline scoring (he would two years later be a 2nd team all-star one more time in Victoria, the season the Cougars were in the WCHL). Thereafter his points production decreased and his penalty minutes increased substantially. He scored a total of 21 points over his last three seasons in Victoria but amassed 172 PIMs. Yet, when it mattered most, he scored again, in two trips to the Stanley Cup. In 1925 he scored 2 goals and an assist in the 4 game cup series plus had 8 PIMs. The following year had had a goal and another 8 PIMs in the Stanley Cup series in a cup win, dishing out as 'stiff bodychecking' as the opposition defenders Cleghorn and Coutu had in the series (according to a Calgary Herald article Mar 24, 1925). When the Victoria franchise was bought up and moved to Detroit, Slim went along and scored the first ever goal for the Detroit Red Wings organization. He played the 2nd most games in the NHL that season, perhaps due to being traded midseason from Detroit to Toronto. His first year in the NHL would also be his last. After 10 seasons of pro hockey, Slim went down to the Can-Am, then AHA, for the next 10 years of his 20 year career, where his scoring increased (seven seasons there he was top-5 in blueline scoring), and his penalty minutes went up even more. He was immediately an all-star at the AHA level, an honor he received twice more eventually. He only missed 15 of 764 scheduled games over 20 years, a remarkable feat to a guy described as 'rugged', who got into skirmishes from time to time, had a lot of penalties, and played defense, perhaps a testament to his size and constitution.



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A clever all-around player with exceptional stick-handling ability. The long-haired gentleman figures prominently in the Falcon attack and is known for his generosity with the puck, having figured in many tallies with a well-directed assist.
http://www.winnipegfalcons.com/playersteam.html

Quote:
... with his great puck carrying ability, his tenacity of purpose and his unselfishness when he saw a chance to pass
http://www.winnipegfalcons.com/falcons/

Quote:
Slim Halderson was a great puck carrier. He could weave his way down the right wing with uncanny control over the puck. Slim, who was six foot two inches tall, travelled down the ice at a much faster clip than the actions of his long limbs indicated. A few long strides and he'd be down to the other end of the rink before the opposition expected.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...n#post32107523



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trail Of the Stanley Cup, Vol. 1
Slim Halderson featured with his rugged play which did not please the Montreal fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Ottawa Citizen, Nov 23, 1925
About halfway through the final period the "feuds" ended when Halderson and Boucher hooked up in a short rough and tumble, and other players on each side took part in the battle."
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Times, Dec 1, 1926
"Siebert cleared a dangerous attack and rushed. the crowd booed when Halderson stepped into him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Times, Dec 20, 1926
The Cook brothers started attacks of their own account, but the defense of Halderson, Loughlin.. was too strong.
Quote:
"...his 200 pound frame was lean and gangly. He had a loose-limbed skating style that looked awkward at first, but his rushes down the wing, combined with his defensive savvy, allowed him to play for 20 years in leagues across North America... a good puck carrier who would get a head of steam going down his right wing and then continue across center when he entered the offensive zone.... rugged play"
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...n#post22007133

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kings Of the Ice
Harold Halderson was known as "Slim" throughout his long career. He was a strapping 6'3" in an era were most players were much smaller, but his 200 pound frame was lean and gangly. He had a loose-limbed skating style that looked awkward at first, but his rushes down the wing, combined with his defensive savvy, allowed him to play for 20 years in leagues across North America. He achieved lasting recognition in Canada for his play at the 1920 Summer Olympics in Antwerp, Belgium.
Quote:
During an early practice, coach.. was trying hard to keep the players from straying from their positions. One of the worst offenders was Halderson, a good puck carrier who would get a head of steam going down his right wing and then continue across center when he entered the offensive zone. Halderson bumped heads with another player during a drill designed to keep him on his part of the ice. A few minutes later, he again carried the puck across his imaginary line and the coach smacked the winger across the seat with his stick to stop him. Halderson apologized, saying, "It must have been the bump on the head."

...After watching the speed with which Canadians like Slim Halderson could shoot the puck, Sweden's goaltender hurriedly found some cotton padding to wrap around himself... Halderson scored against the Czechs with ease, finishing with seven goals in a 15-0 victory... The Swedish team advanced to the Gold medal game. Halderson scored the first-ever goal in an Olympic final just over a minute in. He added another in the third period as Canada won 12-1.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trail Of the Stanley Cup, Vol. 1
Slim Halderson was throwing his weight around quite a bit but he found the Montreal defense ready for him...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Times, 12/1/1926
Siebert cleared a dangerous attack and rushed. the crowd booed when Halderson stepped into him... Halderson relieved a rush and coasted through the Montreal defense and caught Benedict napping to make it 4-0.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=831


Last edited by VanIslander: 08-06-2012 at 09:54 PM.
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08-06-2012, 10:25 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Okay, I officially regret the trade. After watching Slim fall so far, we were TWO picks away from getting him...

I'll post the composite bio I just assembled on him.

seventieslord drafted him in the MLD11 and we were all so impressed that Slim was voted by us GMs as a draft all-star. Then Hedberg drafted him on his MLD 2010 championship squad. Both of them provided tons of great bio stuff that are convincing of his greatness, deserving main all-time draft extra skater status.

I hadn't realized he was undrafted this year to date until my co-GM submitted his name among those for blueline consideration a couple of days ago. I immediately said it should be our next pick and I have spent a couple of hours assembling bio info on him.
We had him on our short-list to start, but when we found out he played time at forward during his two best offensive seasons, he was crossed off.

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08-06-2012, 10:29 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
We had him on our short-list to start, but when we found out he played time at forward during his two best offensive seasons, he was crossed off.
Ah, and you guys drafted Mike Green and Mark Streit instead. Yeah.

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08-06-2012, 10:32 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Ah, and you guys drafted Mike Green and Mark Streit instead. Yeah.
Yes, we wanted guaranteed puck moving and offense from the blue line like winning teams tend to have

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08-06-2012, 10:36 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Yes, we wanted guaranteed puck moving and offense from the blue line like winning teams tend to have
Mike Green on a winning playoff team? The guy is almost legendary in Washington for his defensive liability. There are several regulars on the Caps board here at HfBoards who often bemoan his defensive gaffs. He was pulled twice from the Stanley Cup playoffs, called out by the coach. As a longtime Caps fan, I have a hard time thinking of a worse defender and bigger risk taker.

It's seriously hard to see Mike Green ON THE TOP PAIRING of any winning team. (But maybe he's useful in a sheltered third pairing, ice-when-trailing capacity and on a pp unit)

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08-06-2012, 10:45 PM
  #133
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By the way, I think Slim is a fine pick. His speed and physicality are well established and he was a PCHA 1st Teamer once and a PCHA 2nd Teamer once, so we have something objective to judge him by. If we had lost out on Miroslav Dvorak, I would have considered him for a similar role.

The Mike Green / Mark Streit comparison is strange, since they don't really serve the same role.

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08-06-2012, 10:58 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Mike Green on a winning playoff team? The guy is almost legendary in Washington for his defensive liability. There are several regulars on the Caps board here at HfBoards who often bemoan his defensive gaffs. He was pulled twice from the Stanley Cup playoffs, called out by the coach. As a longtime Caps fan, I have a hard time thinking of a worse defender and bigger risk taker.

It's seriously hard to see Mike Green ON THE TOP PAIRING of any winning team. (But maybe he's useful in a sheltered third pairing, ice-when-trailing capacity and on a pp unit)
Here is a complete and comprehensive list of all MLD players at all positions to be selected an NHL 1st Team All Star more than once:

Mike Green

So far, I've seen you call yourself a lifetime Canucks fan, a lifetime Sharks fan, a lifetime Sabres fan and a lifetime Capitals fan. Am I missing any?

Green (the only player in the MLD to be selected an NHL 1st Team All Star twice) has a partner who is great defensively, particularly known for his intelligence and skating. Who better to cover for Green? Green has a second pairing (Dvorak - Young) that will get all the toughest defensive assignments. He had a group of two-way forwards to help cover. And he has a goalie who is not only the best in the draft, but also used to playing behind a run and gun team (not that we really have one). Don't you think he's in a much better position to succeed than on the real life Capitals?


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08-06-2012, 11:00 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Ah, and you guys drafted Mike Green and Mark Streit instead. Yeah.
And here comes the propaganda of how older players are automatically better.

I feel very confident that Halderson had his flaws as a player, just as Mike Green has. Otherwise, he would have been a PCHA legend instead of just being a very good player there.

Because we see Mike Green on a daily basis doesn't mean his flaws should get pointed out more, it simply means they're more readily apparent. Halderson (and I know very little comparatively about him) isn't a perfect player. If he was, he'd be a top 4 defenseman in the main draft. But he isn't. Just because we see Mike Green more, we shouldn't be more ready to point out his flaws quickly.

How do you know that Halderson wasn't considered a problem defensively? Actually the only quote I see there about his defensive ability says that a coach used to get mad at him for LEAVING his defensive assignment, just as Green is known for doing.

(God I can't believe I'm coming to the defense of Mike Green. I just think it's absurd to automatically give the old player the benefit of the doubt while we ravage new players for their flaws).

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08-06-2012, 11:06 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Mike Green on a winning playoff team? The guy is almost legendary in Washington for his defensive liability. There are several regulars on the Caps board here at HfBoards who often bemoan his defensive gaffs. He was pulled twice from the Stanley Cup playoffs, called out by the coach. As a longtime Caps fan, I have a hard time thinking of a worse defender and bigger risk taker.

It's seriously hard to see Mike Green ON THE TOP PAIRING of any winning team. (But maybe he's useful in a sheltered third pairing, ice-when-trailing capacity and on a pp unit)
You can trash his defensive play all you want, but you can't take anything away from his offensive resume. Even in the play-offs, Green produces at a very good rate.

I don't think anybody here would argue that his defensive game has a lot of holes. Even with improvements over the past couple seasons, he's still below average in that area. With Mike Green, you just take the good with the bad. He's probably the best offensive defenseman in this draft... and he's one of the weakest defensively. There's a reason he's paired with Walt Buswell, and there's a reason he won't be used in a defensive role.


In our research of possible picks, we found evidence that Slim Halderson and Howard McNamara spent time as forwards, so how much of their offensive output came there? How much will they score when they are just playing defense? That's why we didn't take either one of those guys.

That's why we hesitated with Mark Streit. I remember him playing some LW with Montreal, but I couldn't remember how much or when.

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08-06-2012, 11:25 PM
  #137
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My god, I just realized there are 30 more picks before I go again. Glad I picked a goalie instead of the other guy I was considering.

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08-06-2012, 11:34 PM
  #138
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Brad Marsh

Montreal Orfuns adopt Brad Marsh - D/LHS:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...marshbr01.html

Next PMed.


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 08-06-2012 at 11:47 PM. Reason: addition.
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08-07-2012, 09:21 AM
  #139
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My co-GM has stepped down due to personal commitments, he said via PM. That changes the organization. The pick has been skipped and will be made up as soon as it reasonably can be.

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08-07-2012, 09:50 AM
  #140
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Lokomotiv selects Tony Gingras, RW



Bio to come.

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08-07-2012, 10:34 AM
  #141
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We're selecting Karel Gut, D. VanI did a nice little bio on him and we'll try to add to it this time around. He'll be at least on the second PP and third pairing. He led the Olympics in scoring among defensemen in 1956 (top 10 overall) and 1960, and finished 3rd in 1952. His final Olympics statistics are 17 points in 22 games. He also led defensemen in the WC in scoring in 1955, 1956 (top 10 overall), 1959. He was also captain of the Czechoslovak national team for all major international events from 1952-1960.

For now, here is said bio on Gut:



Vancouver Velocity selects Karel Gut, the longtime blueline partner of Frantisek Tikal, and if the latter is an ATD staple going middraft, then the former ought to be drafted as an all-time great as well. Gut, not Tikal, was the captain of the Czechoslavakian team captain for 10 years. Gut was the offensive defenseman of the pair, Tikal the stay at home partner. Gut had played soccer early on, and was center in hockey before moving back to the blueline with Tikal. Gut was Best Defenseman at the 1955 world championships, scoring twice and assisting too to lead his nation to its first ever medal. Gut scored 4 goals to pace the team to another world championship Bronze two year later. He would captain them to a third such medal in 1959. Gut had scored 10 goals in five world championships and he had success at the Olympics as well: in the 1952 Games the 25 year old scored 2 goals and an assist, scoring 4 goals and an assist in the 1956 Olympics and an international career-high 7 points as a 33 year old in the 1960 Olympics. Gut had scored 34 goals in 114 international matches and he was inducted into the IIHF hall of fame in 1998.

http://www.hcsparta.cz/clanek.asp?id...eho-zivot-6239

Quote:
The Spartan team soon found an excellent partner on defense, six years younger Frantisek Tikal. Created the perfect pair. Karel was a deliberate constructive defender with a perfect and precise passing shot down the ice. Frantisek excelled emphasis on prevention, never held his against any opponent, avoid unclean interventions. He also knew how to shoot well and hard.

Gut and Tikal, it was a certainty in the national team. Both played in nine World Championships. Karel represented in 114 matches, the 146 Francis. Gut played on three Olympic Games, two with Tikal. The fact that Gut was a good shooter, evidenced by the fact: in the league engagements scored 86 goals. It was not hard to calculate that in every fourth game scored. The national team he was the author of 35 goals.

Quote:
One of the best defenders in czech hockey history. His offensive style was groundbreaking.
http://hokej.idnes.cz/karel-gut-kapi...-hokej-2008_ot



http://www.hcsparta.cz/zobraz.asp?t=...-tym-karel-gut

Quote:
Among the virtues of Karel Gut as a player was one that did not smoke or drink. The Spartak Sokolovo now at the end of the first season of rejoicing share of the domestic defense of the title, which contributed to the leveling goal in the decisive duel with Brno. Paradoxically, however, the Spartan triumphs of the 50th missed the fateful flight with teammate, Frantisek Tikal, with which later formed the famous defensive pair. "We picked up side by side for eight years, four years in the national team. It is impossible to forget. He started next to me, I ended alongside him. Whether we played how we played, whether any of us had collected the blame on the goal or the total failure among us has never been heard a bad word, we never blame anything.

With Frantisek Tikal had previously split the role. "He was a defensive type, stayed behind because I played forward. After I started as a hockey center forward, "said the defender, which balances the league after two seasons stopped at number 86 And although the goals scored column. Gut also took part in nine World Championships and three Olympics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kings Of the Ice, p. 322
The first player Czech hockey experts described as a "defensive forward," Karel Gut loved to make dating moves that weren't very popular with coaches. But with 35 goals in 114 international matches to his credit, he hasn't yet been outperformed by any other defenseman. Part of the reason for his versatility may be that he started out as a forward and was retrained as a defenseman...

Two years later, however, he appeared with Spartak after all. He spent 11 seasons with that team playing beside some of the greatest names in Czech hockey and at one point forming a defensive duo with Frantisek Tikal. "When I went on the attack, he covered my back."
http://www.radio.cz/fr/rubrique/celebres/-karel-gut-

Quote:
Besides being great skater, Gut had a natural talent he has parlayed with a taste for coaching and a considerable mental strength. The center of the attack, he goes to the rear lines to become one of the best defenders in the history of Czechoslovak ice hockey.

In 1955, K. Gut was named best defender at the World Championships in West Germany. The elite defender became captain of the national team and will remain so until 1960. As a player, K. Gut involved six times at the World Championships, Olympics and the 1952, 1956 and 1960. In 1959, K. Gut is playing its 100th international match in Prague. The Czechs play against Canada and get third place. K. Gut ended his career after a league game, late in the season 1963-1964, in Kladno. Then aged thirty-seven, he began coaching career.
http://translate.google.com/translat...=0CFMQ7gEwAzgK

Quote:
His hockey career, Karel Gut combined for just a moment with Tatra Smichov, the successor team LTC Prague. He worked there from 1951-53, when he noticed his performances in Prague and Sparta, where Gut continued in a rich career. In the 50s he was captain of the team and together with Frantisek Tikal created legendary defensive pair. He was a defender, who often rode into breakaways and attacked, as evidenced by the number goals 124 in domestic league and national team.


Last edited by vecens24: 08-17-2012 at 08:34 PM.
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08-07-2012, 10:42 AM
  #142
VanIslander
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Gut was 2nd on our shortlist. Why Tikal consistently is drafted so far ahead of him is a mystery. There is more on Gut, one of those guys I've come across in my readings and really should make more notes/references of! Gawd, where is a resident Czechoslovakian scholar when you need one?!


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08-07-2012, 10:42 AM
  #143
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Translation

The various internet translation services(free) are more than adequate for hockey related text.

Will give specific sites if board rules allow.

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08-07-2012, 10:44 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
The various internet translation services(free) are more than adequate for hockey related text.

Will give specific sites if board rules allow.
Oh yeah I know how to get those. Google Translate actually works pretty well most of the time. I just straight copy and pasted that bio.

EDIT: Speaking of which, I did translate and edit those three articles into VanI's bio. Hopefully we'll be able to dig more up.


Last edited by vecens24: 08-07-2012 at 11:25 AM.
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08-07-2012, 11:50 AM
  #145
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Connecticut selects D James Stewart

I think he's the one standing on the right

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08-07-2012, 11:57 AM
  #146
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A minor procedural suggestion for future drafts: start the double-pick rounds after Round 20. That allows everyone a shot at completing their basic lineup before players start to fly off the board at an accelerated pace.

Humbly submitted.

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08-07-2012, 12:47 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Gut was 2nd on our shortlist. Why Tikal consistently is drafted so far ahead of him is a mystery. There is more on Gut, one of those guys I've come across in my readings and really should make more notes/references of! Gawd, where is a resident Czechoslovakian scholar when you need one?!

Tikal was likely the 2nd best defenseman in Europe (after Ragulin) in the first half of the 1960s, and there was a minority opinion at the time that he was better than Ragulin. So he stood out more versus other European defensemen than Gut and he did it against better competiton than Gut faced in the 1950s

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08-07-2012, 12:49 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
A minor procedural suggestion for future drafts: start the double-pick rounds after Round 20. That allows everyone a shot at completing their basic lineup before players start to fly off the board at an accelerated pace.

Humbly submitted.
The best reason for leaving it as is that "we've always done it this way.".

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08-07-2012, 01:32 PM
  #149
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World

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Tikal was likely the 2nd best defenseman in Europe (after Ragulin) in the first half of the 1960s, and there was a minority opinion at the time that he was better than Ragulin. So he stood out more versus other European defensemen than Gut and he did it against better competiton than Gut faced in the 1950s
On the world stage we are looking at Senior hockey in Canada or 4th tier pro hockey in the USA level of good defensemen given who played in the WC. Harry Sinden was considered a good defenseman at the world's.

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08-07-2012, 01:42 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
On the world stage we are looking at Senior hockey in Canada or 4th tier pro hockey in the USA level of good defensemen given who played in the WC. Harry Sinden was considered a good defenseman at the world's.
I think the true star European players from the time (guys like Tumba) deserve to be recognized for being dominant against the competiton. But I agree with you that some GMs here are a little too forgiving towards the second tier European standouts of the era


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