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red wings needs defense and forwards

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Old
08-06-2012, 02:30 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
We don't have any stud Americans to trade and fleece a Canadian market with

I guess Howard but we kind of need that guy.
I mean, I could put up with losing Howard if it meant something like what Boston got with Seguin and Hamilton.

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08-06-2012, 02:32 AM
  #102
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Higher on him than I am on Mika Zibanejad for instance. Although I have pretty big amount of praise for Silfverberg because I have seen him a lot more. Great hockey sense and guy just loves to score. I wish we could trick Ottawa into whatever trade it took to get him reunited with Jarnkrok.
BM is a good hockey man i dont care what people say about him ,he knows how to draft and has an eye for tallent,he was a wing not too long ago after allAs far as Zbad goes i see the projected numbers for him being close to the same as what i said for silfverberg but that is his bar.The intagables are what make his worth

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08-06-2012, 02:35 AM
  #103
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BM is a good hockey man i dont care what people say about him ,he knows how to draft and has an eye for tallent,he was a wing not too long ago after all
Early 90's although Devellano and a young head of scouting named Ken Holland made those calls.

Although the good news on Bryan Murray is the next GM has always won the big prize right after he left.

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08-06-2012, 02:38 AM
  #104
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Ok reload it is ,this is all i meant .Can i say you need shoot more than one bullet on the defense then on the defense and you wont get mad
My observation on Detroit's defense is that people are blowing things way out of proportion.

Kronwall, as I've already said, is a good top pairing guy IMO. Is he an elite, number one defender? No. But then, there aren't many of those.

Replacing Lidstrom isn't gonna happen. We could've gotten Weber, and it STILL wouldn't have been "Replacing Lidstrom". Anybody who has that expectation was going to be disappointed no matter what.

Replacing Stuart? People fail to realize he was already replaced. Quincey was clearly acquired because Holland knew Stuart was on his way out. Is it a downgrade? Some people seem to think so, I don't think it's all that different. Quincey is less physical and more offensive. Both give me headaches when I would watch them **** it up, so it's not all that different.

Ericsson is a guy that I've hated for awhile, but after coming back from his wrist injury, he stepped his game up a lot. If he doesn't take a step back again, I think he'll fit in as a top four guy.

Realistically, Kronwall/White/Ericsson/Quincey isn't amongst the league's best, but it's not amongst the league's worst either, and honestly one of those guys is just keeping Smith's seat warm in the top four.

It's blown out of proportion IMO. You see a legend walk away and the typical response is to run around like a chicken with your head cut off. Obviously, you've taken a hit, but it's still not all that bad.

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08-06-2012, 02:41 AM
  #105
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Early 90's although Devellano and a young head of scouting named Ken Holland made those calls.
Yep ,for sure .But iam very pleased with the job he has done since he has been with ottawa and hope he passes his skills on to his nefew Tim

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08-06-2012, 02:43 AM
  #106
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Early 90's although Devellano and a young head of scouting named Ken Holland made those calls.

Although the good news on Bryan Murray is the next GM has always won the big prize right after he left.
He hasnt been known as a finisher all though i would like to see him get his do .He has built or had a hand in building some impressive teams .He is a pretty low key manager without a huge ego

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08-06-2012, 02:45 AM
  #107
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Just an idea worth throwing out there though. The general opinion is that the new CBA will see a decrease in the salary cap (Whether it goes into affect this year or next year).

A rumor went out not too long ago that Red Wings' execs expect it to go down by $10M. Much of which has to do with the NHL's interest in re-defining what is considered "Hockey-Related Revenue".

I can assure you, if the cap goes down by that much, (Or even $5M) Ken Holland is going to be grinning from ear to ear.

Most teams would have to move something unless an amnesty buyout option is given. Either way, Holland wins. Most teams either wont have cap space or won't be spending because they're a floor team.

In other words, if the cap drops and teams have to scramble to make it under, Holland could be one of the few people able to fish in a pond that would be getting much bigger.

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08-06-2012, 02:47 AM
  #108
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My observation on Detroit's defense is that people are blowing things way out of proportion.

Kronwall, as I've already said, is a good top pairing guy IMO. Is he an elite, number one defender? No. But then, there aren't many of those.

Replacing Lidstrom isn't gonna happen. We could've gotten Weber, and it STILL wouldn't have been "Replacing Lidstrom". Anybody who has that expectation was going to be disappointed no matter what.

Replacing Stuart? People fail to realize he was already replaced. Quincey was clearly acquired because Holland knew Stuart was on his way out. Is it a downgrade? Some people seem to think so, I don't think it's all that different. Quincey is less physical and more offensive. Both give me headaches when I would watch them **** it up, so it's not all that different.

Ericsson is a guy that I've hated for awhile, but after coming back from his wrist injury, he stepped his game up a lot. If he doesn't take a step back again, I think he'll fit in as a top four guy.

Realistically, Kronwall/White/Ericsson/Quincey isn't amongst the league's best, but it's not amongst the league's worst either, and honestly one of those guys is just keeping Smith's seat warm in the top four.

It's blown out of proportion IMO. You see a legend walk away and the typical response is to run around like a chicken with your head cut off. Obviously, you've taken a hit, but it's still not all that bad.
I get what you are saying and its probably true ,but iam only looking at it from the other big western teams perspective.These are the teams that detroit will have to go through if they are to make any headway in the west .Teams like STL,LA and to some extent teams like nash,chicago and van .These all have bluelines greater than or pretty much on par with detroits its pretty daunting imho

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08-06-2012, 02:48 AM
  #109
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Just an idea worth throwing out there though. The general opinion is that the new CBA will see a decrease in the salary cap (Whether it goes into affect this year or next year).

A rumor went out not too long ago that Red Wings' execs expect it to go down by $10M. Much of which has to do with the NHL's interest in re-defining what is considered "Hockey-Related Revenue".

I can assure you, if the cap goes down by that much, (Or even $5M) Ken Holland is going to be grinning from ear to ear.

Most teams would have to move something unless an amnesty buyout option is given. Either way, Holland wins. Most teams either wont have cap space or won't be spending because they're a floor team.

In other words, if the cap drops and teams have to scramble to make it under, Holland could be one of the few people able to fish in a pond that would be getting much bigger.
Same we are 4 million under right now

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08-06-2012, 02:49 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Just an idea worth throwing out there though. The general opinion is that the new CBA will see a decrease in the salary cap (Whether it goes into affect this year or next year).

A rumor went out not too long ago that Red Wings' execs expect it to go down by $10M. Much of which has to do with the NHL's interest in re-defining what is considered "Hockey-Related Revenue".

I can assure you, if the cap goes down by that much, (Or even $5M) Ken Holland is going to be grinning from ear to ear.

Most teams would have to move something unless an amnesty buyout option is given. Either way, Holland wins. Most teams either wont have cap space or won't be spending because they're a floor team.

In other words, if the cap drops and teams have to scramble to make it under, Holland could be one of the few people able to fish in a pond that would be getting much bigger.
Those are pretty big ifs for me especially with Fehr across the negotiation tables. There will be no hockey if that is truly what they ask for and don't budge.

I am glad the Wings have not pursued and put cap space towards marginal talents. But for me the cap situation is why Filppula and Howard have not signed extensions, the Wings hope to get them in a cheaper environment in my opinion.

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08-06-2012, 02:52 AM
  #111
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Those are pretty big ifs for me especially with Fehr across the negotiation tables. There will be no hockey if that is truly what they ask for and don't budge.

I am glad the Wings have not pursued and put cap space towards marginal talents. But for me the cap situation is why Filppula and Howard have not signed extensions, the Wings hope to get them in a cheaper environment in my opinion.
Agreed these monster long term ufa deals are scary .As Holland said in an interview on XM if you make a mistake you are out of it for a decade

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08-06-2012, 02:53 AM
  #112
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I get what you are saying and its probably true ,but iam only looking at it from the other big western teams perspective.These are the teams that detroit will have to go through if they are to make any headway in the west .Teams like STL,LA and to some extent teams like nash,chicago and van .These all have bluelines greater than or pretty much on par with detroits its pretty daunting imho
Wouldn't put Nashville's blue line up with Detroit's (Although they've got a good deal of defensive prospects with Ellis and Blum as well as Josi) and their offense certainly isn't on par. IMO, the playoffs in the West has 7 of the same teams as last year. Nashville's out, Minnesota's in.

Chicago has a better top two than Detroit, but IMO Detroit has a better 3-6.

My concern with Detroit is panic moves. I would much rather be a "Probable playoff team" that wouldn't be a Cup favorite for the next 2-3 years, than make panic moves to improve the team for the next five years, and sell off what is going to carry us along for the next 10-15 years.

Which is part of the reason why I don't understand why Holland would make such a stupid offer for Rick Nash.

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08-06-2012, 02:57 AM
  #113
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Wouldn't put Nashville's blue line up with Detroit's (Although they've got a good deal of defensive prospects with Ellis and Blum as well as Josi) and their offense certainly isn't on par. IMO, the playoffs in the West has 7 of the same teams as last year. Nashville's out, Minnesota's in.

Chicago has a better top two than Detroit, but IMO Detroit has a better 3-6.

My concern with Detroit is panic moves. I would much rather be a "Probable playoff team" that wouldn't be a Cup favorite for the next 2-3 years, than make panic moves to improve the team for the next five years, and sell off what is going to carry us along for the next 10-15 years.

Which is part of the reason why I don't understand why Holland would make such a stupid offer for Rick Nash.
Holland and Babcock fell in love with him in Vancouver. I also am not sure they didn't do it just to look aggressive at that point knowing that it would be public but never accepted by Columbus. Find it interesting they are rumored to have inquired about Yandle but nothing now in a week plus on that. I don't think he is as ready to deal as some think, it is just quelling the rather annoying part of our fan-base that is demanding action right now.

He has said at length since the cap went in to anybody that was listening he would stock the farm system really deep and develop from within. If the right deals or UFA became available they would make approaches. But Holland isn't a panic guy and when he does make moves they usually come lightening quick and without anybody even knowing he dipped his toe in the water on that player.

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08-06-2012, 02:57 AM
  #114
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Those are pretty big ifs for me especially with Fehr across the negotiation tables. There will be no hockey if that is truly what they ask for and don't budge.
Fehr's all bark in my opinion. He's not going up against Selig this time. Like him or not, Bettman's a very smart guy. (Not hockey smart, business smart)

Fehr doesn't stand all that great of a chance when the NFL and NBA just got deals in their favor and most NHL teams are losing money. Even if the definition of Hockey-Related Revenue stayed the same, a 50/50 split with a $100M revenue increase would bring the cap down to $64M next season.

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08-06-2012, 02:59 AM
  #115
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Holland and Babcock fell in love with him in Vancouver. I also am not sure they didn't do it just to look aggressive at that point knowing that it would be public but never accepted by Columbus. Find it interesting they are rumored to have inquired about Yandle but nothing now in a week plus on that. I don't think he is as ready to deal as some think, it is just quelling the rather annoying part of our fan-base that is demanding action right now.
If we trade for Yandle I'll throw up. We need to improve on our defense. Defensively, he's might not even be better than Kindl. The guy is a turnover machine that couldn't hit his way out of a wet-paper bag. Doesn't even kill penalties. He's no help to us. If we needed an offensive defender, sure, he'd be good. We don't.

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08-06-2012, 03:05 AM
  #116
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If we trade for Yandle I'll throw up. We need to improve on our defense. Defensively, he's might not even be better than Kindl. The guy is a turnover machine that couldn't hit his way out of a wet-paper bag. Doesn't even kill penalties. He's no help to us. If we needed an offensive defender, sure, he'd be good. We don't.
Shared a similar opinion on him not to long ago. The facts are right around the time Detroit got rejected on Nash, Holland went wheels up to Western Canada for the last three weeks of this summer to his summer home. Now sure he could do deals from there, but I took that as a big sign he was content and comments since have gone along those lines. They will sign a seventh d-man or trade some of the bottom six forwards for a depth D guy. Either way he is not interested in the current deals by most accounts and does not see the point in just overpaying whoever at this point. I am fine with that, keep the system in tact, it is the smart strategy as far as I am concerned and it looks like you feel the same way.

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08-06-2012, 06:45 AM
  #117
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Ellerby is available from Florida. Drafted 10th in the first round in 2007, he is now 6'4" over 216 pounds, skates very well, hits and played well in 2010 when paired with Kulikov, but was odd man out last season. Needs to improve his decision making, but definite top 4 potential. Cats would be looking for RW prospect or picks.

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08-06-2012, 07:52 AM
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Ellerby is available from Florida. Drafted 10th in the first round in 2007, he is now 6'4" over 216 pounds, skates very well, hits and played well in 2010 when paired with Kulikov, but was odd man out last season. Needs to improve his decision making, but definite top 4 potential. Cats would be looking for RW prospect or picks.
How much?

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08-06-2012, 10:07 AM
  #119
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Leopold for Frk?

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08-06-2012, 10:18 AM
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Leopold for Frk?
No one wants Leo. Just bury him in the minors already. He doesn't fit any needs for us. We want a big mean defender.

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08-06-2012, 10:18 AM
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Leopold for Frk?
We aren't trading a kid we drafted like 6 weeks ago.

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08-06-2012, 02:15 PM
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This thread turned into Detroit's prospect bashing thread. I understand why Red Wings fans feel optimistic, they have the best prospect pool they've seen in 15-20 years...

Red Wings might have a few more down years, but they'll bounce back and be the class of the league in a couple years. That's how their upper management 'retool'. We've seen this in the Yzerman / Shanahan transition.

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08-06-2012, 04:09 PM
  #123
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My observation on Detroit's defense is that people are blowing things way out of proportion.

Replacing Stuart? People fail to realize he was already replaced. Quincey was clearly acquired because Holland knew Stuart was on his way out. Is it a downgrade? Some people seem to think so, I don't think it's all that different. Quincey is less physical and more offensive. Both give me headaches when I would watch them **** it up, so it's not all that different.

Ericsson is a guy that I've hated for awhile, but after coming back from his wrist injury, he stepped his game up a lot. If he doesn't take a step back again, I think he'll fit in as a top four guy.

Realistically, Kronwall/White/Ericsson/Quincey isn't amongst the league's best, but it's not amongst the league's worst either, and honestly one of those guys is just keeping Smith's seat warm in the top four.
You're right. The chicken little syndrome has blown up with lidstrom's retirement. Early on, I admit, I even had it.

Quincey only replaces Stuart as a warm body. They don't play the same style. We've got plenty of PMDs. We need at least 1 shutdown stay at home Dman. Quincey and Ericsson both are borderline to decent 2nd pair guys on this team. I don't care what Quincey did elsewhere. E has to prove he can maintain or continue to develop into a solid top 4. Kindl's another to me, that needs to show me a lot before I'm comfortable with him as a regular in the line up.

You're right. We're solidly in the middle of the pack right now. I really hope Smith comes in tears it up. With no other changes, I see Smith anchoring 2nd pair before the end of the year, if not sooner. Currently he's the game changer. Does he rise to what on paper, is some challenge? Hope so

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08-06-2012, 04:11 PM
  #124
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This thread turned into Detroit's prospect bashing thread. I understand why Red Wings fans feel optimistic, they have the best prospect pool they've seen in 15-20 years...

Red Wings might have a few more down years, but they'll bounce back and be the class of the league in a couple years. That's how their upper management 'retool'. We've seen this in the Yzerman / Shanahan transition.
Detroit's prospect pool for wingers is quite good. Jurco,Frk,Tvrdon, all interest me.

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08-06-2012, 06:04 PM
  #125
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Don't need forwards, don't want forwards.
We're looking at the distinct possibility of having 2 of Bertuzzi, Cleary and Samuelsson in the top 6 given Babcock's love for those 3- that's not screaming quality to me.

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