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Douglas Murray to Ottawa

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Old
08-06-2012, 05:44 PM
  #126
hateseed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Murray doesn't play that much 5-on-5, and Demers was only 1:30 behind Murray.

I picked a random team, Florida, and their top 4 were all over 20 min, like 4 min difference with the #5.

I picked another random team, Calgary, and their top 4 were all over 20 min, like 4 min difference with the #5.

I'm sure this is common in the NHL.
Common perhaps, but doesn't hold a lot of sand for the Sharks who have always loaded Boyle (25:34) with minutes (MOAR than Karlsson (25:19), @ 35! like-OMG) which doesn't even address that Vlassic (23:09) and Burns (22:32) both had big numbers as well. As stated, Murray's TOI was hindered by a freak injury that he mostly played through which affected his breathing...

Anyway, I don't think your TOI assumption is very useful, but on top of that don't find much use arguing the point anymore anyway. He's on the table, for a solid 3rd line winger-type. Take or leave him, but were happy to retain him.

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08-06-2012, 05:45 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I disagree. Who's pushing him? Colin White?
ES TOI/G 2010-2011
1. Dan Boyle
2. MEV
3. Douglas Murray

ES TOI/G 2011-2012
1. MEV
2. Dan Boyle
3. Brent Burns
4. Douglas Murray

Projected ES TOI/G 2012-2013
1. MEV
2. Dan Boyle
3. Brent Burns
4. Brad Stuart
5. Douglas Murray

Notice a pattern?

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Old
08-06-2012, 05:48 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hateseed View Post
Common perhaps, but doesn't hold a lot of sand for the Sharks who have always loaded Boyle with minutes (MOAR than Karlsson, @ 35! like-OMG) which doesn't even address that Vlassic and Burns both had big numbers as well. As stated, Murray's TOI was hindered by a freak injury that he mostly played through which affected his breathing...

Anyway, I don't think your TOI assumption is very useful, but on top of that don't find much use arguing the point anymore anyway. He's on the table, for a solid 3rd line winger-type. Take or leave him, but were happy to retain him.
OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
ES TOI/G 2010-2011
1. Dan Boyle
2. MEV
3. Douglas Murray

ES TOI/G 2011-2012
1. MEV
2. Dan Boyle
3. Brent Burns
4. Douglas Murray

Projected ES TOI/G 2012-2013
1. MEV
2. Dan Boyle
3. Brent Burns
4. Brad Stuart
5. Douglas Murray

Notice a pattern?
Yeah, and you just proved my point. SJ is souring on Murray in a big role and they keep pushing him down the depth chart by acquiring better defensemen than him. Now tell me how Murray is still a good top 4

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08-06-2012, 05:49 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
ES TOI/G 2010-2011
1. Dan Boyle
2. MEV
3. Douglas Murray

ES TOI/G 2011-2012
1. MEV
2. Dan Boyle
3. Brent Burns
4. Douglas Murray

Projected ES TOI/G 2012-2013
1. MEV
2. Dan Boyle
3. Brent Burns
4. Brad Stuart
5. Douglas Murray

Notice a pattern?
The pattern of us adding top-notch defensemen to our roster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Yeah, and you just proved my point. SJ is souring on Murray in a big role and they keep pushing him down the depth chart by acquiring better defensemen than him. Now tell me how Murray is still a good top 4
Burns fell in our lap for a drastic underpayment. You wouldn't take him if he was offered to you?

Stewart wanted to live with his family again and was basically gifted to us.

Two young D in our system (Braun and Demers) developed into NHL caliber D....

To assert that the Sharks went out of their way to replace Murray is silly. He played in our top-pair 2 seasons ago. Even odds he's a Shark next July...


Last edited by hateseed: 08-06-2012 at 05:56 PM.
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Old
08-06-2012, 05:51 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Yeah, and you just proved my point. SJ is souring on Murray in a big role and they keep pushing him down the depth chart by acquiring better defensemen than him
So anytime a team goes out and acquires a defenseman, they are souring on the players they push down on the depth chart?

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08-06-2012, 05:53 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Murray is not enough of an upgrade over Lundin to justify trading Greening. Methot adds enough $ to the 3rd pair without Murray thank you very much
You do realize that you're the only one who sees Methot playing on the 3rd pairing, right?

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08-06-2012, 05:55 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
So anytime a team goes out and acquires a defenseman, they are souring on the players they push down on the depth chart?
Well it looks fishy. Murray has a bad season, Sharks seek better top 4 in free agency.

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08-06-2012, 05:56 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukus View Post
You do realize that you're the only one who sees Methot playing on the 3rd pairing, right?
OK,

Murray is not enough of an upgrade over Lundin to justify trading Greening. Phillips adds enough $ to the 3rd pair without Murray thank you very much

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08-06-2012, 05:57 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Well it looks fishy. Murray has a bad season, Sharks seek better top 4 in free agency.
No, we didn't. Stewart asked Det to let him come play for a bitter rival in SJ so he could live with his family. With class, Det went out of their way to trade us his rights for essentially nothing (late pick).

Doug Wilson really broke his back manufacturing that one!

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08-06-2012, 05:59 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Well it looks fishy. Murray has a bad season, Sharks seek better top 4 in free agency.
You think we "sought" out Brad Stuart?

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08-06-2012, 06:01 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hateseed View Post
No, we didn't. Stewart asked Det to let him come play for a bitter rival in SJ so he could live with his family. With class, Det went out of their way to trade us his rights for essentially nothing (late pick).

Doug Wilson really broke his back manufacturing that one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
You think we "sought" out Brad Stuart?
All right guys, so you're telling me that you would be completely comfortable going into next season with

Vlasic - Boyle
Murray - Burns
Random terrible D such as Vandermeer/White - Demers
Braun

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08-06-2012, 06:05 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
All right guys, so you're telling me that you would be completely comfortable going into next season with

Vlasic - Boyle
Murray - Burns
Random terrible D such as Vandermeer/White - Demers
Braun
Fist off, it would be:
Vlasic - Burns
Murray/Braun - Boyle
Braun/Murray-Demers
Veteran pick-up or Current AHL'r

Second, without Stewart the Sharks MIGHT have sought someone out, but now were operating in three-degrees of conjecture. What's the point?

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08-06-2012, 06:07 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
All right guys, so you're telling me that you would be completely comfortable going into next season with

Vlasic - Boyle
Murray - Burns
Random terrible D such as Vandermeer/White - Demers
Braun
Vlasic - Burns
Murray - Boyle
Demers - Braun
Irwin

I would also be comfortable with a defensive core of

Weber - Suter
Karlsson - Chara
Keith - Seabrook
Vlasic

But that doesn't mean I've soured on Vlasic.

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08-06-2012, 06:09 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
Vlasic - Burns
Murray - Boyle
Demers - Braun
Irwin

I would also be comfortable with a defensive core of
Weber - Suter
Karlsson - Chara
Keith - Seabrook
Vlasic

But that doesn't mean I've soured on Vlasic.
Chara is too old, I would sit him for vlassic

/first-world problems

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08-06-2012, 06:10 PM
  #140
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Good luck with not winning the cup, you wouldn't have needed it.
Always a good way to concede an argument; make pointless remarks like this.

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08-06-2012, 06:12 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
Always a good way to concede an argument; make pointless remarks like this.
It's not pointless, it's pointing that that D corps won't bring you a cup anytime soon. An upgrade is/was needed.

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08-06-2012, 06:16 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
It's not pointless, it's pointing that that D corps won't bring you a cup anytime soon. An upgrade is/was needed.
It was pointless. Cup contenders should strive for a better-than-average defensive core. Being the 5th best defenseman on a cup contending team doesn't make you a 3rd pairing defenseman.

I'd be "comfortable" in the sense that I wouldn't waste the limited assets on defenseman when we have bigger holes to fill. The idea of being "comfortable" with your defense is too abstract because I would always strive for a better defensive core.

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08-06-2012, 06:29 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Ok. My mistake, didn't know Boyle had that extra year. However, we still get the older player for the term. But, that makes the deal a bit better.

Pretty good deal, although Ottawa is taking a pretty large risk, assuming Clowe doesnt resign, they have Spezza, Turris as top six players for next year.

Boyle would solve some organizational issues though, that is for sure but create a logjam in the back end.
Sure there's a risk Clowe goes to unrestricted, but I think Ottawa would have a very good chance to re-sign him should they offer him a reasonable deal. Depending on his season, I could see him signing around the 4.3-4.7 range (maybe 5 if he has a 70+ season) and, with what he brings to the table, be worth every penny.

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08-06-2012, 06:35 PM
  #144
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Telltale signs of losing an argument:

-overextended 'what-if' scenarios
-conveniently ignoring simple explanations as they are told
-asserting that x, y, and z will 'not win you a cup' (well, 29/30 d-squads will not win you a cup)

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08-06-2012, 06:54 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by sharkohol View Post
Telltale signs of losing an argument:

-overextended 'what-if' scenarios
-conveniently ignoring simple explanations as they are told
-asserting that x, y, and z will 'not win you a cup' (well, 29/30 d-squads will not win you a cup)
You forgot:
-Arguing Jared Cowen (-.288 Corsi Rel QoC, - player, #5 defenseman by TOI) was better than Douglas Murray last year (.755 Corsi Rel QoC, + player, #4 by TOI) - simply because one played 31 seconds a game more than the other on average.
-Arguing 10% isn't that much of a difference, but 2.8% is that much of a difference (the difference betwen Cowen and Murray's TOI).

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08-06-2012, 07:54 PM
  #146
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rumor is Murray is dating Tigers ex-wife.

After trading Fisher, we need some hot gfs/wives around SBP

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08-07-2012, 04:42 AM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
It's not that big of a deal. But, it's an indication that SJ is souring on him as a top 4. His minutes have gone down despite being worse on LD than ever. 18 min is starting to get pretty close to #5 D minutes vs top 4 D min.
18 mins was 4th on SJ and Ill bet him being injured had something to do with it. I dont know if you actually watched sharks games at all but we in Detroit have. Murray will upgrade your top-4.

Murray > Gonchar, Methot, Cowen (unless he makes a major jump in development)

That leaves Phillips and Karlsson.

The difference in ice time between Cowen and Murray is related to two things, Murrays injuries and the fact that SJ had Burns, Vlasic and Boyle which is a hell of a lot better than Kuba, Phillips and Gonchar (Karlsson is obviously better but does he offset having those three?).

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08-07-2012, 05:11 AM
  #148
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I think it would be a good fit, Murray for what i have seen from him he is quite good defensively, would make a good partner for Karlsson since Kuba left. Or help Cowen since he seemed pretty bad at times even compared to Karlsson defensively. But i think Ottawa should send draft pick + something instead of young forwards since they need them as much as Sharks.

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08-07-2012, 08:03 AM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSnow View Post
I think it would be a good fit, Murray for what i have seen from him he is quite good defensively, would make a good partner for Karlsson since Kuba left. Or help Cowen since he seemed pretty bad at times even compared to Karlsson defensively. But i think Ottawa should send draft pick + something instead of young forwards since they need them as much as Sharks.
We have no reason to trade Murray for picks and prospects.

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08-07-2012, 09:44 AM
  #150
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Thread is making my eyes bleed.

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