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Sean Couturier for Oliver Ekman-Larsson

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08-06-2012, 01:35 PM
  #1
FlyingHigh13
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Sean Couturier for Oliver Ekman-Larsson

Just a thought. I know there is not much reason for this deal to happen but just wanted to gage how valuable people believe Couterier is. OEL impressed me during Phoenix's run during the postseason. As a flyers fan, I think this would be fair for both sides, phillys got a ton offensive depth/firepower and Phoenix is in need of top six forwards or offensive talent in general. Don't think schenn will move either due to the acquisition of Luke Schenn.

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08-06-2012, 01:37 PM
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I hope Phoenix fans are not wandering by our board, because they will ask for Giroux.......

People are delusional on the OEL love right now. Yes he had a pretty good season for a young defender, but that doesn't mean he will be a multiple Norris winner and Hall of Famer. Keith Yandle is still the number 1 in Phoenix until OEL over takes him, which he did not do last year. Yes he is getting better, but still has ways to go to be a franchise defender.

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08-06-2012, 01:42 PM
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OEL is such a freaking stud. Easily the next Andrej Meszaros. We should hurry and trade Timonen + Bourdon + 1st for him.


(Those confused see August 29th, 2008.)

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08-06-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
OEL is such a freaking stud. Easily the next Andrej Meszaros. We should hurry and trade Timonen + Bourdon + 1st for him.


(Those confused see August 29th, 2008.)
I might do that

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08-06-2012, 02:10 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I hope Phoenix fans are not wandering by our board, because they will ask for Giroux.......

People are delusional on the OEL love right now. Yes he had a pretty good season for a young defender, but that doesn't mean he will be a multiple Norris winner and Hall of Famer. Keith Yandle is still the number 1 in Phoenix until OEL over takes him, which he did not do last year. Yes he is getting better, but still has ways to go to be a franchise defender.
Would I argue that people are overhyping Couts as well. I do not think he was the sole reason Malkin didnt do much in the postseason/gets too much credit for that. Plus, he didn't score all that much, although some of that is the fact that he did not get great minutes/great linemates. Couts could be a solid two way stud forward like a zetterberg, but just a solid TWF ala David legwand. All comes down to who ya think has a better chance of becoming a star.

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08-06-2012, 02:14 PM
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I swallow hard and do this deal. Phoenix does not. Pretty straight forward.

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08-06-2012, 02:17 PM
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Sean Couturier should and probably is untouchable. 1st line caliber centers are the hardest thing to acquire in the league. You typically have to choose in the top 10 in the draft to get them, especially if they have any size. There is this popular myth around that you need a Norris caliber defenseman to win a Stanley Cup. However I can name 2 teams since the lockout that had unspectacular defensemen and won a Stanley Cup in Pittsburgh and Carolina. I cannot find a winner without a stud center, and more than likely two.

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08-06-2012, 02:24 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
People are delusional on the OEL love right now. Yes he had a pretty good season for a young defender, but that doesn't mean he will be a multiple Norris winner and Hall of Famer. Keith Yandle is still the number 1 in Phoenix until OEL over takes him, which he did not do last year. Yes he is getting better, but still has ways to go to be a franchise defender.
How do you define overtaking him? Let's look at the playoffs as an example since they are the most recent body of work to analyze when assessing whether one player has "overtaken" another, whatever that means.

TOI/G
OEL - 25:46 (32.2 sft/g)
Yandle - 21:27 (27.5 sft/g)

Corsi rel QoC
OEL - 3.012
Yandle - -1.261

Offensive Start %/Offensive Finish %
OEL - 42/52.1
Yandle - 55.9/55.9

Yandle was used as an offensive specialist in the playoffs (a better version of Michael Del Zotto). OEL played the tougher defensive minutes against tougher opponents. He had a better defensive playoffs (statistically) then beastmode Coburn.

By season's end, OEL was the number 1 defenseman in Phoenix.

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08-06-2012, 02:32 PM
  #9
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No.

Couturier is exactly what the flyers need. He fills a very basic need on this team. You win cups with players like Couturier. He already has off the charts defensive ability, and he was as slow as a sloth last year. A year of power skating lessons, while maturing offensively. This guy is going to be elite. Very, very elite.

He can shut down the best players in the world, while putting up points. If you don't understand how rare this is, you should make a list of all the players in the NHL that can do it.

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08-06-2012, 02:33 PM
  #10
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Umm If we put Couts+Meszarov+1st pickS (Maybe two or more?) is there any possible to get both , Yandle and OEL ?

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08-06-2012, 02:40 PM
  #11
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Umm If we put Couts+Meszarov+1st pickS (Maybe two or more?) is there any possible to get both , Yandle and OEL ?
No. It's not.

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08-06-2012, 02:56 PM
  #12
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I reluctantly do this deal as we really need a cornerstone defencemen to build around/with. We tend to draft well with good forwards but fail at D.

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08-06-2012, 04:38 PM
  #13
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OEL is much, much more valuable as it stands right now. He's was a top pairing defenseman the second half last year at worst, and a legit #1 in some eyes(including mine). As much potential as Coots showed shutting down the leading scorer in the NHL, he doesn't have as much value as OEL.

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08-06-2012, 04:50 PM
  #14
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If we didn't include Couts in a deal for Weber, it ain't gonna happen here.

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08-06-2012, 04:51 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
OEL is much, much more valuable as it stands right now. He's was a top pairing defenseman the second half last year at worst, and a legit #1 in some eyes(including mine). As much potential as Coots showed shutting down the leading scorer in the NHL, he doesn't have as much value as OEL.
It still doesn't make sense to do the deal. Couturier is 2 years younger than OEL, with room to improve his game tremendously.

It's comparing apples and oranges. First line centres will always return more value than first pairing defenseman. It's how it's always been.

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Old
08-06-2012, 05:01 PM
  #16
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eh, Phoenix fans can overhype their guy. does it really matter?
every fanbase does it with their own young players and prospects. I am sure people who dont like the Flyers think Flyer fans overhype Couturier.
That said i dont think either team does this trade


Last edited by GoneFullHextall: 08-06-2012 at 05:31 PM. Reason: fixing typos
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08-06-2012, 05:20 PM
  #17
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I still wouldn't do it.

OEL has shown some fantastic stuff.

Cooter has shown some unbelieveable stuff.

I'd rather Homer die at his desk, bloody ear next to a phone, trying to swap multiple lesser assets for a young #1 defenseman, than trade away a stud blue chip prospect.

... unless I'm throwing out proposals just to see what hockey information bounces back.

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08-06-2012, 05:29 PM
  #18
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I would have traded Couturier for Weber and I would probably trade him for OEL. People are getting way too high on Couturier I think.

Then again a year from now once Couturier only puts up around 30-35 points (which is fine for a 19 year old) people will say his ceiling is an above average 3rd line center and he will be underrated again.

On HF you are only as good as your last 40 games.

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08-06-2012, 05:32 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
How do you define overtaking him? Let's look at the playoffs as an example since they are the most recent body of work to analyze when assessing whether one player has "overtaken" another, whatever that means.

TOI/G
OEL - 25:46 (32.2 sft/g)
Yandle - 21:27 (27.5 sft/g)

Corsi rel QoC
OEL - 3.012
Yandle - -1.261

Offensive Start %/Offensive Finish %
OEL - 42/52.1
Yandle - 55.9/55.9

Yandle was used as an offensive specialist in the playoffs (a better version of Michael Del Zotto). OEL played the tougher defensive minutes against tougher opponents. He had a better defensive playoffs (statistically) then beastmode Coburn.

By season's end, OEL was the number 1 defenseman in Phoenix.
2011-12

TOI/60
Yandle - 17.91
OEL - 17.66
Coburn - 17.49
Timonen - 13.29

Corsi rel QoC
Timonen - 1.220
Coburn - 1.079
OEL - 0.817
Yandle - -0.073

OFFstart% --> OFFfinish%
OEL - 48.5 --> 50.2 = 1.7
Coburn - 50.2 --> 48.3 = -1.9
Timonen - 53.6 --> 50.9 = -2.7
Yandle - 55.0 --> 51.3 = -3.7




Also..."Beastmode" Coburn played minutes in the playoffs basically as tough as OEL. He had a 2.945 Corsi rel QoC vs. OEL's 3.012. On top of that "Beastmode" Coburn was playing roughly 2 minutes more per game in the playoffs without getting ANY PP time. You want to talk to me about who is getting the tough minutes?

Right now, Coburn is a better defenseman than OEL.

Older than OEL? Sure, but let's not pretend OEL is some glorious gift to hockey. He's not Weber. A more offensive Coburn is who Phoenix wants OEL to be in 6 years when he catches up to Coburn's age. Even so, like all young defensemen, there will be growing pains and slumps along the way.


Last edited by CS: 08-06-2012 at 05:42 PM.
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Old
08-06-2012, 05:45 PM
  #20
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Sean Couturier isnt Jordan Staal yet either.

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08-06-2012, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Sean Couturier isnt Jordan Staal yet either.
Doesn't matter. Neither side should want to do this.

In this kind of deal it's better to keep the one you know.

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08-06-2012, 05:53 PM
  #22
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Doesn't matter. Neither side should want to do this.

In this kind of deal it's better to keep the one you know.
exactly.
I still dont think the Flyers can afford to trade any more forwards for defenseman.

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08-06-2012, 07:37 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Sean Couturier should and probably is untouchable. 1st line caliber centers are the hardest thing to acquire in the league. You typically have to choose in the top 10 in the draft to get them, especially if they have any size. There is this popular myth around that you need a Norris caliber defenseman to win a Stanley Cup. However I can name 2 teams since the lockout that had unspectacular defensemen and won a Stanley Cup in Pittsburgh and Carolina. I cannot find a winner without a stud center, and more than likely two.
Calling Wesley "unspectacular" is an insult. "Unspectacular" defensemen don't last 20 years in the NHL with 1400+ games played. No he's not Norris caliber, but he's closer to that than he is to being an "unspectacular" player. Same for Sergei Gonchar.

Who was the stud center on the Devils cup teams? Gomez? Madden? Arnott?

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08-06-2012, 07:55 PM
  #24
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I'd rather trade both schenns for OEL than Couts. I think Couts can be a Vincent Lecavalier type player.

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08-06-2012, 08:39 PM
  #25
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I'd rather trade both schenns for OEL than Couts. I think Couts can be a Vincent Lecavalier type player.
Which version of Vinny, though?

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