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2012 Off Season Thread - Part dreiundzwanzig: Boring Summer edition

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08-08-2012, 07:55 PM
  #301
Til the End of Time
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
Ya. that's just what we need. A guy to go out and target the other teams star players and hurt them. WTF?
???

im confused. what is wrong with trying to punish and hurt other teams star players? im not talking about blatantly dirty plays.

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08-08-2012, 07:56 PM
  #302
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WTF? Ya. that's just what we need. A guy to go out and target the other teams star players and hurt them.
If it's done in the scope of play and within the rules, then yes, we do need more of that. Or would you prefer other teams' stars are comfortable out there?

I don't think he was advocating cheap, dirty play; something Engelland doesn't have a history of anyway.

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08-08-2012, 08:05 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
???

im confused. what is wrong with trying to punish and hurt other teams star players? im not talking about blatantly dirty plays.
Engo doesn't go on the ice against stars so he doesn't fill that role.

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08-08-2012, 08:06 PM
  #304
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Engo doesn't go on the ice against stars so he doesn't fill that role.
Sure he does. Especially in the regular season. We can't control the match-ups every game.

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08-08-2012, 08:08 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Engo doesn't go on the ice against stars so he doesn't fill that role.
youre being obstinate.

i recall at least one game where he was specifically matched up against AO. i also remember him delivering a fantastic hit against giroux (not sure if playoffs or regular season).

dont know how to embed, but here is link to giroux hit. engo saw him in a vulnerable position and made him pay. pens dont have enough of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCjct17reb0

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08-08-2012, 08:10 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
youre being obstinate.

i recall at least one game where he was specifically matched up against AO. i also remember him delivering a fantastic hit against giroux (not sure if playoffs or regular season).
I have been defending Engo the rest of this thread. That post was actually the opposite of me being obstinate.

and come on, Ovi isn't a top guy anymore

how about this. We don't WANT him going against other team's top players.

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08-08-2012, 08:12 PM
  #307
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You can't be a full-time NHL defenseman and not find yourself matched up on the ice against star players from time to time. Come on, it's impossible.

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08-08-2012, 08:13 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
you asked me for something Engelland can do that Bortuzzo doesn't do. I gave it to you. He also has proven that he can play in the NHL. Hopefully Bortuzzo does the same. I would love to see both of them on the bottom pairing by the end of the year with us trading Martin or Niskanen for a forward. That would be a nice big defense if we have something like

Orpik-Letang
Niskanen-Despres
Bortuzzo-Engelland
Strait
Despres and Bortuzzo are listed at 6'4", Orpik and Engelland are listed at 6'2". Niskanen is listed at 6'1" and Letang is listed at 6'0" that would be a big defencive core.

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08-08-2012, 08:14 PM
  #309
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good lord I'm sorry. We do our best to keep him away from most star players. It's a nice bonus when he does get hits on them when he's forced to play against them, but his role in the NHL will never be to play against stars with regularity.

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08-08-2012, 08:15 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
good lord I'm sorry. We do our best to keep him away from most star players. It's a nice bonus when he does get hits on them when he's forced to play against them, but his role in the NHL will never be to play against stars.
Stop being wrong on the internet, bro.

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08-08-2012, 08:16 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
Stop being wrong on the internet, bro.
I've been on the side of the people who just got mad at me this entire time too

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08-08-2012, 08:16 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
good lord I'm sorry. We do our best to keep him away from most star players. It's a nice bonus when he does get hits on them when he's forced to play against them, but his role in the NHL will never be to play against stars.
agreed, but when hes out there against them, he tries to punish/hit/maybe hurt them. it would be ideal if the pens had a top pairing defense to do that routinely against stars, but such dmen are rare. having a bottom pairing guy to do that is a good thing to have.

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08-08-2012, 08:16 PM
  #313
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Engelland was frequently matched up with the lesser lights of the league. His qualcomp was a clear 5th for Pens' defensemen last year, ahead of only Niskaenen (his frequent partner) and Lovejoy. There was a substantial gap in qualcomp between Letang, Martin, Michalek and Orpik and the bottom 3. I do believe that Engelland is 5th in most advanced defensive stats.

He is what he is. A solid 3rd-pairing defensemen. I don't see there being anthing more than a neglible difference if Engelland were replaced by either a Strait or Bortuzzo, regardless of their playing styles, not that I'm particularly advocating such a move.

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08-08-2012, 08:18 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
agreed, but when hes out there against them, he tries to punish/hit/maybe hurt them. it would be ideal if the pens had a top pairing defense to do that routinely against stars, but such dmen are rare. having a bottom pairing guy to do that is a good thing to have.
I agree. I was just pointing out that what he does to star players is a very small part of why he's valuable considering how little he goes against them. Orpik is the kind of guy that has major value because he can punish star players all game.

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08-08-2012, 08:18 PM
  #315
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I've been on the side of the people who just got mad at me this entire time too
I'm one of them

vanderbeekhigh5.gif

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08-08-2012, 08:19 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
I'm one of them

vanderbeekhigh5.gif
I know you are.

its ok broseph

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08-08-2012, 08:23 PM
  #317
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When does training camp start again? I need some new **** to discuss.

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08-08-2012, 08:25 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
When does training camp start again? I need some new **** to discuss.
not soon enough

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08-08-2012, 08:27 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
youre being obstinate.

i recall at least one game where he was specifically matched up against AO. i also remember him delivering a fantastic hit against giroux (not sure if playoffs or regular season).

dont know how to embed, but here is link to giroux hit. engo saw him in a vulnerable position and made him pay. pens dont have enough of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCjct17reb0
Nice video, Scott Hartnell is a coward. He goes after Deryk Engelland (even though it was a clean hit on Giroux), You would think Hartnell would of challenged Engelland but no it was Engelland who challenges Hartnell and then Hartnell declines the invitation, That's pathetic.

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08-08-2012, 08:29 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by MichiganWolverines View Post
Nice video, Scott Hartnell is a coward. He goes after Deryk Engelland (even though it was a clean hit on Giroux), You would think Hartnell would of challenged Engelland but no it was Engelland who challenges Hartnell and then Hartnell declines the invitation, That's pathetic.
I'm not much for the "you need to drop the gloves" thing, but if you are the one to start a scuffle then ya you need to drop the gloves

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08-08-2012, 08:34 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I'm not much for the "you need to drop the gloves" thing, but if you are the one to start a scuffle then ya you need to drop the gloves
Yeah I agree, i'm sick of seeing fights over clean hits. That's why I hate the bruins.

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08-08-2012, 08:34 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
If the decision is: lose Bortuzzo for nothing (or trade him) or sit Engelland, then see ya, Bort. I may be very, very wrong, but that's where I sit right now.
Horrible asset management to potentially lose a 23 yr old D who is NHL ready (and one would think that due to his age there's still some upside there) to play a 30 yr old 3rd pairing D with little upside (game will only marginally improve). The regular season is there for a reason. I'd gladly waive Engo and play the crap out of Strait and Bort. If they don't work out, play Despres or Dumoulin. We have a ton of D prospects, and we need to start giving them icetime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
I have no idea where your confidence in this assertion comes from. None at all. And he can't do everything Engelland does, he's about 5 pounds bigger at best (and 2 inches taller, making him less compact)
If TSN is to be believed, Engo is 6-2, 202, while Bort is 6-4, 215. That is a noticeable difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
yeah just to add, the penguins need a blueliner that will target the oppositions star players and go out of their way to hit/hurt them.

orpik doesnt seem to do that anymore. and i literally cant think of any other guy in the organization that will do that, aside from engelland.
Engelland does have that ability, however none of us particularly want him on the ice against the other teams star forwards. So regardless that he has this ability, it doesn't mean a lot when we don't trust him to be on the ice to punish star players. As for the comment about being cheap, I don't think anyone hinted at that. Playing tough and physical against other teams top players (within the rules) is something everyone should strive for. Some are just better at it than others. But regardless of how good one is (or isn't) if they're not on the ice, it doesn't really matter.

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So the plan is to hold back blue chip prospects for guys like strait and bourtuzzo only because they are waived eligible? It's a tough spot to be in because you dont want to lose either guy for nothing but they aren't worth much, if anything, in a trade.
Who are we holding back? While some have advocated keeping Despres in the minors for a while, most have said keep 8 D, and dress 7 and rotate 2 of Strait, Bort and Engo until they can either write someone off and risk sending them to WBS or trade them for something.

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08-08-2012, 08:40 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post

Engelland does have that ability, however none of us particularly want him on the ice against the other teams star forwards. So regardless that he has this ability, it doesn't mean a lot when we don't trust him to be on the ice to punish star players. As for the comment about being cheap, I don't think anyone hinted at that. Playing tough and physical against other teams top players (within the rules) is something everyone should strive for. Some are just better at it than others. But regardless of how good one is (or isn't) if they're not on the ice, it doesn't really matter.
but he does find himself out against the other teams top players, to some degree. i also think its a good thing to have a slightly "dirty" dman that is willing to walk the line between clean and dirty, and occasionally step over that line. its a moderately valuable skill, one that engo can bring.

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08-08-2012, 08:41 PM
  #324
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Horrible asset management to potentially lose a 23 yr old D who is NHL ready (and one would think that due to his age there's still some upside there) to play a 30 yr old 3rd pairing D with little upside (game will only marginally improve). The regular season is there for a reason. I'd gladly waive Engo and play the crap out of Strait and Bort. If they don't work out, play Despres or Dumoulin. We have a ton of D prospects, and we need to start giving them icetime.
I just don't think Bortuzzo is anything special. Being NHL ready doesn't mean he's going to succeed when he gets there. Despres will already be playing, IMO, and then we're banking on Dumoulin? We'd still be waiving Strait or Bortuzzo in that scenario anyway. And then we've lost one of them plus Engelland (who I don't think has a chance in hell of being waived).

I don't think we'll be carrying 8D.

Quote:
If TSN is to be believed, Engo is 6-2, 202, while Bort is 6-4, 215. That is a noticeable difference.
Yeah, that wasn't what hockeydb said, but who knows. That is a noticeable difference if true. Doesn't mean he's as physical, though. Look at Ryan Whitney's measurables.

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08-08-2012, 08:43 PM
  #325
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Who are we holding back? While some have advocated keeping Despres in the minors for a while, most have said keep 8 D, and dress 7 and rotate 2 of Strait, Bort and Engo until they can either write someone off and risk sending them to WBS or trade them for something.
He was asking about what will happen if Morrow plays like one of our top 6 D at camp. It's a hypothetical, but its not an unreasonable one actually.

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