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Old
01-30-2013, 01:42 PM
  #526
Crede777
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Columbus needs to take an idiot proof player. Right now there are two, maybe three in Mackinnon, Jones, and maybe Barkov. I say maybe because there's always an inherent factor of uncertainty when drafting a European player.

You can't count on the draft to fill needs of the team. You have to take the best player available at that point in time regardless of position. If Mackinnon is gone, draft Jones and let the 7 best defensemen be our defensemen. Trade or send down the excess. Later rounds are when you draft for need and you need to rely on development, trades, or free agency to fill needs.

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01-30-2013, 02:33 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Columbus needs to take an idiot proof player. Right now there are two, maybe three in Mackinnon, Jones, and maybe Barkov. I say maybe because there's always an inherent factor of uncertainty when drafting a European player.

You can't count on the draft to fill needs of the team. You have to take the best player available at that point in time regardless of position. If Mackinnon is gone, draft Jones and let the 7 best defensemen be our defensemen. Trade or send down the excess. Later rounds are when you draft for need and you need to rely on development, trades, or free agency to fill needs.
Great take. So true! I just hope this draft has less knucklehead risk than prior ones.

Then again the 2003 draft produced the stars of stars except for one pick

Nickolai Zherdev (European lol)

Go figure.

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01-30-2013, 03:43 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Why would we want to do that. Let them pick Jones at 1 if they want him. I am not trading anything to move from 2 to 1. I only do that if there is a huge difference in the player who will go 1 and the player who will go 2. IMO, there isn't.
I understand what your saying, but lets say for some stupid reason, Edmonton somehow wins the lottery again, and we are at #2. They need defense bad, and we need offense bad. They may have Mckinnon as their top player, but if they need D, they can squeeze something out of us, and still get a Jones, and at same point, we give up a little, and get what we really need. Just saying it could be a possibility.

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01-30-2013, 03:56 PM
  #529
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Having said that above, I cant imagine a scenario, where JD doesnt convert some of our assets to aquire scoring. For example, say we draft second, and we draft Jones. Can you imagine a scenario where Ryan Murray, and Seth Jones both make the Jackets next fall ? Then you have John Moore, Tim Erixon, David Savard, plus Wiz, Jack, Nikitin, and Tyutin. That would be 9 defenseman. So even if we draft Jones, some players would have to be shipped out for scoring. Guess what I'm saying is that people panicking over the fact that we may draft Jones, have to look at the big picture. Maybe we would ship out a Ryan Murray for Scoring ? the thing to remember is that we have Jd. Sit back and relax, were heading north.

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01-30-2013, 05:00 PM
  #530
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Right now the only way I would trade if we landed a top 3 pick is if we get an absolutely ridiculous offer to move. (i.e Philly offers us Couturier and their 1st round pick, provided they end up in the top 10)

Mackinnon and Jones are both really special players. Both would be major game changers for the franchise. I feel that if we can get one of these two our rebuild will be shortened by a considerable amount of time. (Mack giving us the a true #1C prospect who is a finisher, Jones giving us a potential #1 D-man and freeing us up to move other Defensive assets to get scoring help)

Personally, my guess is that we will try to acquire more assets this trade deadline and at the draft, moving guys like Bassard, Umberger (I know NTC), Tyutin, etc. to pick up more draft picks in the first 60 or packaged with the picks we have to move up.

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01-30-2013, 05:10 PM
  #531
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Right now the only way I would trade if we landed a top 3 pick is if we get an absolutely ridiculous offer to move. (i.e Philly offers us Giroux and their 1st round pick, provided they end up in the 3-5 spots)

Mackinnon and Jones are both really special players. Both would be major game changers for the franchise. I feel that if we can get one of these two our rebuild will be shortened by a considerable amount of time. (Mack giving us the a true #1C prospect who is a finisher, Jones giving us a potential #1 D-man and freeing us up to move other Defensive assets to get scoring help)

Personally, my guess is that we will try to acquire more assets this trade deadline and at the draft, moving guys like Bassard, Umberger (I know NTC), Tyutin, etc. to pick up more draft picks in the first 60 or packaged with the picks we have to move up.
Fixed philly's offer for you. And I hope you are right about moving some (lots) of guys at the deadline although I'm not sure any of them outside of a D would bring a 2nd.

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01-30-2013, 05:16 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Jacks Johnson View Post
I understand what your saying, but lets say for some stupid reason, Edmonton somehow wins the lottery again, and we are at #2. They need defense bad, and we need offense bad. They may have Mckinnon as their top player, but if they need D, they can squeeze something out of us, and still get a Jones, and at same point, we give up a little, and get what we really need. Just saying it could be a possibility.
Let them take the D if they really want him. Otherwise, they can take can take another forward and we can take Jones. I know some are okay with trading something to move up and I understand that. I just don't think there is enough of a difference between the 2 to make me want to give up anything to move up 1 spot.

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01-30-2013, 05:43 PM
  #533
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Fixed philly's offer for you. And I hope you are right about moving some (lots) of guys at the deadline although I'm not sure any of them outside of a D would bring a 2nd.
Yeah, I think Giroux is a bit much, but I see your point . As to the trading of players, if you look at our February/March schedule it's pretty rough and we will likely be sellers at the deadline. if you look at teams around the league the biggest thing teams are looking for are Defense and secondary scoring. Guys like Tyutin/Nikitn are going to likely fetch at least a first round pick, while a guy like Brassard may very well be able to command that much to a team such as the wild may be willing to pay a first.

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01-30-2013, 08:25 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Why would we want to do that. Let them pick Jones at 1 if they want him. I am not trading anything to move from 2 to 1. I only do that if there is a huge difference in the player who will go 1 and the player who will go 2. IMO, there isn't.
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I don't think the team picking 1st would do that.
Agreed, on both points.

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01-30-2013, 10:16 PM
  #535
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TSN Midseason Rankings

TSN released their mid-season draft rankings today, with Seth Jones leading the pack:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=414864
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9840

Quote:
"To be honest, it's really, really close between these two (Jones and MacKinnon). I said MacKinnon in December but Jones was real close for me and I say Jones now but MacKinnon is real close. I think it will probably come down to a positional thing. If the team picking first needs a defenceman, they'll take Jones and if they need a No. 1 centre they'll take MacKinnon. I could see these two flip-flopping all the way to the draft."
Further enthusing my point. Seth is getting better and better as the year wears on, and while I had MacKinnon as a distant first at the start of the year, the gap is now so close that it's one or the other. We land one of these kids, and our turn around will be quick.

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01-30-2013, 10:49 PM
  #536
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Franchises have been in the NHL for 40 years & not won

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I'm not suggesting that teams other than Nashville don't have a top defensive pair. I merely suggest if the goal of a franchise is to win a stanley cup, it makes little sense to model your franchise after one that hasn't ever done it before, regardless of if they have been more successful as a franchise than us or not.
Lord Stanley's Cup

Nashville's record is something like 20-2 against us in Nashville. They win by having a shutdown d. You don't see David Poille or Trotz picking a Picard, Brule or Zherdev.

Weber, Suter, Klein, Ellis, Rinne maybe, but not very many offensive bums.

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01-30-2013, 11:01 PM
  #537
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(Leafs Fan, Come in Peace)

Wow, I have a feeling that the slow start of LA will get you guys a top 20 pick. IMO Columbus can rebuild your entire team in this one draft.

No offence, but you guys should get a top 5 pick (top 3 most likely) then add a top 20 pick and another between 20-30.

first pick -> Jones/MacKinnon/Drouin/Barkov

second pick -> Erne/Mantha/Nurse/Pulock

Third pick -> Gauthier/Lazar/Compher/Rychel


If, and that's a BIG if, you get (Barkov, Pulock, Rychel)

Stock the cupboard, maybe draft Furcale to get some G depth.

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01-30-2013, 11:23 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! View Post
Lord Stanley's Cup

Nashville's record is something like 20-2 against us in Nashville. They win by having a shutdown d. You don't see David Poille or Trotz picking a Picard, Brule or Zherdev.

Weber, Suter, Klein, Ellis, Rinne maybe, but not very many offensive bums.
Great, they can consistently beat one of the worst run franchises in all of professional sports. Is that really all we desire now?

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01-31-2013, 05:41 AM
  #539
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Lots of interesting comments in McKenzie's rankings.

Sore Loser quoted what I believe is the most pertinent issue for the Jackets. Imo we need a #1 center more than a defenseman.

Another interesting point is that Jones is 11 months older than MacK.

Here's the link again

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=414864

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01-31-2013, 09:35 AM
  #540
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Watched Nichushkin playing in the KHL yesterday. This 17 years old kid is gonna be elite power forward, very strong on his skates with a lot of offensive tools. At the WJC he made Seth Jones look bad. Last week his goal was named 2nd best in the KHL (Nichushkin's goal is at 2:48):



And just last night he scored another highlights reel goal and looked better than Kuznetsov in general:


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01-31-2013, 10:17 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
TSN released their mid-season draft rankings today, with Seth Jones leading the pack:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=414864
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9840



Further enthusing my point. Seth is getting better and better as the year wears on, and while I had MacKinnon as a distant first at the start of the year, the gap is now so close that it's one or the other. We land one of these kids, and our turn around will be quick.
? for you.

Would MacKinnon/Barkov be NHL ready if we drafted them. Like Ryan Murray? Or more like a typical 1st rounder? Interested in your thoughts here.

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01-31-2013, 10:51 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
? for you.

Would MacKinnon/Barkov be NHL ready if we drafted them. Like Ryan Murray? Or more like a typical 1st rounder? Interested in your thoughts here.
While not as knowledgeable as SL i'll throw in my two cents. IMO, both Mack and Barkov (and Jones for that matter) are a"NHL Ready". Both players have the physical tools even though they are two of the youngest players in this years draft. Both are strong on the puck and their offensive skills are elite (Mack's speed could put him into the top tier of skating from day one and combined with his shot...Damn. Barkov on the other hand has the huge body and hockey IQ to break defenses apart, while still being a scoring threat himself with an underrated wrister). Maybe most importantly both kids are amongst the best defensive forwards in this draft, which is often the reason that players can't stick with the team.

I honestly can't see a way that Mackinnon doesn't make a team after he is drafted, on most teams now he could step in and be a #2C and if he can handle it he could come the immediate #1C (CBJ, Winnipeg, Phoenix). My only questions with Barkov is the change to North American ice and his skating (not bad, but might cause issues).

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01-31-2013, 10:55 AM
  #543
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
While not as knowledgeable as SL i'll throw in my two cents. IMO, both Mack and Barkov (and Jones for that matter) are a"NHL Ready". Both players have the physical tools even though they are two of the youngest players in this years draft. Both are strong on the puck and their offensive skills are elite (Mack's speed could put him into the top tier of skating from day one and combined with his shot...Damn. Barkov on the other hand has the huge body and hockey IQ to break defenses apart, while still being a scoring threat himself with an underrated wrister). Maybe most importantly both kids are amongst the best defensive forwards in this draft, which is often the reason that players can't stick with the team.

I honestly can't see a way that Mackinnon doesn't make a team after he is drafted, on most teams now he could step in and be a #2C and if he can handle it he could come the immediate #1C (CBJ, Winnipeg, Phoenix). My only questions with Barkov is the change to North American ice and his skating (not bad, but might cause issues).
Thanks man....We gotta get Mackinnon! This town is dying for a superstar.

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01-31-2013, 11:24 AM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Thanks man....We gotta get Mackinnon! This town is dying for a superstar.
Yeah, the more I watch Mack the more it seems like he has the potential to be one of the next big offensive stars. If we get the chance to draft him he would automatically bring an entirely new dimension to this team.

If we drafted him he would be, IMO:
1. the fastest player on the team
2. the best skater on the team
3. probably the best release on the team/best finisher on the team.

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01-31-2013, 11:39 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Yeah, the more I watch Mack the more it seems like he has the potential to be one of the next big offensive stars. If we get the chance to draft him he would automatically bring an entirely new dimension to this team.

If we drafted him he would be, IMO:
1. the fastest player on the team
2. the best skater on the team
3. probably the best release on the team/best finisher on the team.
Jeez...I hear you man. That would be awesome.

It's worth tanking a half season for imo...but building a winning culture is equally important. I just hope we don't end up in no man's land 17-27 in the standings. As a Browns fan I have seen the mediocrity cycle before where we still don't finish low enough to land one of the few blue chippers.

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01-31-2013, 11:55 AM
  #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Jeez...I hear you man. That would be awesome.

It's worth tanking a half season for imo...but building a winning culture is equally important. I just hope we don't end up in no man's land 17-27 in the standings. As a Browns fan I have seen the mediocrity cycle before where we still don't finish low enough to land one of the few blue chippers.
i feel like that's what we've been doing the last 10 years, hasn't actually worked out for us very well so far.

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01-31-2013, 12:08 PM
  #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Would MacKinnon/Barkov be NHL ready if we drafted them. Like Ryan Murray? Or more like a typical 1st rounder? Interested in your thoughts here.
Both MacKinnon and Barkov will only turn 18 at the beginning of training camp. MacKinnon has nothing left to prove in juniors and Barkov is already one of the top scorers in the Finnish Elite League.

With Barkov, he's defensively one of the best players on his team and is dominating in Finland in faceoffs.

However, they are very young and I think expectations might be a little high that they can easily step into the NHL, especially Barkov. I could see him needing to have some time to adjust. He's also still growing (he's a very big kid) and at time he's seemed just exhausted in games this season. It's not conditioning level. It's expecting kids who are still growing to play 80+ games in a season against grown men.

Neither Barkov or MacKinnon dominated in the WJC, so I think expectations need to be lowered that either can just step into the NHL and put up huge points or be the savior of a franchise immediately.


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Old
01-31-2013, 12:33 PM
  #548
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i feel like that's what we've been doing the last 10 years, hasn't actually worked out for us very well so far.
Besides last year when have we had a top two pick since Rick Nash?

That's just it. We haven't been doing that at all.

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01-31-2013, 12:44 PM
  #549
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Besides last year when have we had a top two pick since Rick Nash?

That's just it. We haven't been doing that at all.
We didn't even get a top two pick from the standings, we had to trade for it lol

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01-31-2013, 12:47 PM
  #550
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Let's say we end up with one lottery pick, and two non lotto picks.

Hypothetic situation: 6th, 23rd, 28th

Do you try to trade up to 1st at the cost of all three?
Even if it was possible (re: my earlier frothing rants on the subject), I wouldn't want to.

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Stock the cupboard, maybe draft Furcale to get some G depth.
This made me giggle.

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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Jeez...I hear you man. That would be awesome.

It's worth tanking a half season for imo...but building a winning culture is equally important. I just hope we don't end up in no man's land 17-27 in the standings. As a Browns fan I have seen the mediocrity cycle before where we still don't finish low enough to land one of the few blue chippers.
No. No tanking. Never tanking. Tanking destroys team cohesion. Tanking screws any attempt to build chemistry and character.

Tanking is for the faithless, the honorless, and the Edmonton Oilers.

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