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Old
02-03-2013, 01:36 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Looking over the talent pool CBJ has a lot of Defensemen. If you can score a LATE 1st for one of those extra dmen You should consider it. Ryan Murray should be ready for heavy contact work by mid April and that's an extra body to add to the d-corp and push some of the lower level talent out for picks.

If you are projecting, #5 is the Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan range.

Projecting #7, Ristolainen, Pulock, Nichushkin, Shinkaruk

#14, Domi, Erne, Mantha, Horvat.

An extra late pick could score you a Lazar.

All I care about as a Preds fan. Knock Detroit the **** out of the playoffs, everything else will come to place.
Murray won't be doing anything for like 6 months per the front office here...but he should be good to go for training camp in the fall

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02-03-2013, 01:44 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
I think we are good enough to finish around 10th, but that wouldn't be good for the future of this organization. We need to continue to play hard and build for the future.
Agreed. I know Viqsi rails on the 'One true savior' approach but I would counter with a '3 wise men of hockey' approach.

First Ryan Murray, at WORST he can be your AHL-NHL bounce D-man. At best, Paired with the d-man du jour you have on the bottom pairing.

Turn the top 3 1sts into high 2 1sts if the price is right. Use those 2 forward in the mix next year.

I think you guys are too good for the dream team of McKinneon and Drouin but there is a LOT this draft and you guys have the most lottery tickets.

I really want you guys to go to the East. 1) It just makes sense. 2) You guys scare the HELL out of me.

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02-03-2013, 02:59 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
The best case scenario would be some of the defensemen go earlier than expected in the top 10, dropping a few of the forwards- like what happened last year that allowed Filip Forsberg and Grigorenko to drop. Robert Hägg could be this year's Hampus Lindholm. They are very similar players. Gigantic OHL defenseman Nikita Zadorov might be another one to go top 10.

So, the hope would be Nichushkin or Shinkaruk would be there at #11. I'm not sure how fans would feel if they drafted a Russian, but Anisimov might make fans forget Zherdev and Filatov and the team is far more Russian friendly now.

Wennberg is #11 on MacKenzie's list and and wouldn't be surprised if he ends up going top 10. I hate every year hyping the latest prospect from Djurgården, but this kid has been producing all season and making it look easy. He's not all that flashy, but he has a great playmaking ability to turn nothing into a goal. He doesn't have Zibanejad's defensive awareness or aggressiveness, but he's more offensively gifted than Zibanejad (both DIF products).
How much you have seen of Hägg?

Looked to have pretty good skating and puck moving ability but very raw at WJCs.

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02-03-2013, 03:11 PM
  #604
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After watching last night's game, who do you guys like in the 11-13 spot? (yet hopeful)
Pulock, Shinkaruk, etc ... very good skill guys available in that range.

To answer the topic of the hour: Keep the draft picks, try to stockpile any more we can. One question I ask is: What about Artem Anisimov? He's a restricted free agent after this season; do we re-sign him and keep him as part of our future core, or, do we try to trade him before the draft? I don't know that he nets us another 1st rounder, but he could land us another prospect or pick. Naturally, this all depends on perceived value - if the Jackets think he's worth whatever he's asking, then they will be keeping him.

We have an interesting lineup, full of guys that would be very valuable to teams making stretch playoff runs. I think that we have to remain competitive, but if an offer we can't resist comes along on one of our glut second/third line players, we have to take the deal.

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02-03-2013, 03:21 PM
  #605
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Picked a bad day to pose the AA question. I'm pretty sure the majority would say no way. I think it depends. If he is asking for a ridiculous amount and the offer is good I say take it. I prefer to envision his future as a great third liner for the Jackets. Not that he is a third liner I just dream of the day when the top 6 doesn't have space for him.

Overall I agree that we have some options at the trade deadline and draft day to build for the future.

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02-03-2013, 03:23 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Pulock, Shinkaruk, etc ... very good skill guys available in that range.

To answer the topic of the hour: Keep the draft picks, try to stockpile any more we can. One question I ask is: What about Artem Anisimov? He's a restricted free agent after this season; do we re-sign him and keep him as part of our future core, or, do we try to trade him before the draft? I don't know that he nets us another 1st rounder, but he could land us another prospect or pick. Naturally, this all depends on perceived value - if the Jackets think he's worth whatever he's asking, then they will be keeping him.

We have an interesting lineup, full of guys that would be very valuable to teams making stretch playoff runs. I think that we have to remain competitive, but if an offer we can't resist comes along on one of our glut second/third line players, we have to take the deal.
If he doesn't net a first-rounder (at minimum), then don't even consider trading him.

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02-03-2013, 03:59 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Pulock, Shinkaruk, etc ... very good skill guys available in that range.

To answer the topic of the hour: Keep the draft picks, try to stockpile any more we can. One question I ask is: What about Artem Anisimov? He's a restricted free agent after this season; do we re-sign him and keep him as part of our future core, or, do we try to trade him before the draft? I don't know that he nets us another 1st rounder, but he could land us another prospect or pick. Naturally, this all depends on perceived value - if the Jackets think he's worth whatever he's asking, then they will be keeping him.

We have an interesting lineup, full of guys that would be very valuable to teams making stretch playoff runs. I think that we have to remain competitive, but if an offer we can't resist comes along on one of our glut second/third line players, we have to take the deal.
No sir (re:Ansimov). Good younger player, lot of skill, good start.

I'd rather dump Umby's old azz and hefty salary and use the money to resign Artie.

If we could get a 2nd rounder for him I'd take it and then maybe try to jump back in round 1 if there is a player there we like. Thoughts?

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02-03-2013, 04:10 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
I'm a stats cruncher, sports futurist, and overall stat geek. As a Preds fan, you guys terrify me. Why, when Howson made the Nash deal and the Foligno deal, he made a deal that lead to this coming out of my mouth.

"Oh, he made a David Poile deal.....****!"


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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Defensively, you're at 20th, not God awful but not a black hole of suck. Offensively, that's where your black hole of suck comes from. 28th, not as bad as Nashville's but still.
That'd be because we've had the same problem Nashville has had of late - the guys aren't actually playing the system for the full 60, and we don't have enough offensive talent yet to steal games regardless when that happens.

Last night, of course, was very different (and that's why it was awesome ). But no team plays at the top of its game every night. So, yeah, we still need to add top-end talent there. Don't upgrade, add - which pretty much rules out about 90-99% of trade offers (and pisses off folks at T&R ).

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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
So the question remains; do you trade the 1st to get high quality talent for the playoffs or hold the line and draft 3 1sts in one of the better classes, MAYBE, of this generation?

As of right now: LA's pick is #5. CBJ #7 (But closer to the playoffs than #1), NYR #14.

My personal opinion, hold the line. This is not your year. Get (Hopefully) 2 top 10 picks and then relocated to the Southeast. This is not the year to push for a cup. It's a half season and all the haters will mock it because you won a cup in a short season and you will have the metaphorical asterisk.

What do you guy want?
We've pretty consistently maintained (at least in discussions on T&R, and also generally here) that the real hope is to hold on to the picks we have and trust to get good guys. Reasons for that trust vary wildly (altho most folks assume "JD will not steer us wrong", which is probably fair), but by and large that's been consensus.

...mostly because I seem to have developed this habit of tearing the throats out of anyone who dares suggest trading up.

And besides, 13 years of karmic imbalance has to be rectified somehow.

* * *
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Pulock, Shinkaruk, etc ... very good skill guys available in that range.

To answer the topic of the hour: Keep the draft picks, try to stockpile any more we can. One question I ask is: What about Artem Anisimov? He's a restricted free agent after this season; do we re-sign him and keep him as part of our future core, or, do we try to trade him before the draft? I don't know that he nets us another 1st rounder, but he could land us another prospect or pick. Naturally, this all depends on perceived value - if the Jackets think he's worth whatever he's asking, then they will be keeping him.

We have an interesting lineup, full of guys that would be very valuable to teams making stretch playoff runs. I think that we have to remain competitive, but if an offer we can't resist comes along on one of our glut second/third line players, we have to take the deal.
Per longstanding Rangers fan testimony, he's very useful even when he's not scoring, so I would retain him if possible. Kind of see him as our Vermette replacement in that regard ('cause he sure as heck needed replacing ).

* * *
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
No sir (re:Ansimov). Good younger player, lot of skill, good start.

I'd rather dump Umby's old azz and hefty salary and use the money to resign Artie.

If we could get a 2nd rounder for him I'd take it and then maybe try to jump back in round 1 if there is a player there we like. Thoughts?
Umby wouldn't - and shouldn't - be traded for a 2nd. Wouldn't because that's too much salary for someone to take back by itself, and shouldn't because despite his current slump and the resulting hatedom he's still a useful player. Soon as we have enough talent depth to keep him no higher than the second line, he should be fine.

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Old
02-03-2013, 04:17 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post




That'd be because we've had the same problem Nashville has had of late - the guys aren't actually playing the system for the full 60, and we don't have enough offensive talent yet to steal games regardless when that happens.

Last night, of course, was very different (and that's why it was awesome ). But no team plays at the top of its game every night. So, yeah, we still need to add top-end talent there. Don't upgrade, add - which pretty much rules out about 90-99% of trade offers (and pisses off folks at T&R ).



We've pretty consistently maintained (at least in discussions on T&R, and also generally here) that the real hope is to hold on to the picks we have and trust to get good guys. Reasons for that trust vary wildly (altho most folks assume "JD will not steer us wrong", which is probably fair), but by and large that's been consensus.

...mostly because I seem to have developed this habit of tearing the throats out of anyone who dares suggest trading up.

And besides, 13 years of karmic imbalance has to be rectified somehow.

* * *


Per longstanding Rangers fan testimony, he's very useful even when he's not scoring, so I would retain him if possible. Kind of see him as our Vermette replacement in that regard ('cause he sure as heck needed replacing ).

* * *


Umby wouldn't - and shouldn't - be traded for a 2nd. Wouldn't because that's too much salary for someone to take back by itself, and shouldn't because despite his current slump and the resulting hatedom he's still a useful player. Soon as we have enough talent depth to keep him no higher than the second line, he should be fine.



? How many more years do you see Umby playing? I don't see a lot.

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02-03-2013, 04:26 PM
  #610
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How much you have seen of Hägg?

Looked to have pretty good skating and puck moving ability but very raw at WJCs.
I haven't seen much of him, other than the WJC where he didn't look like he was quite ready to play at that level.

However, he's already been called up to MODO at age 17 over older prospects including Ludvig Byström who was drafted in the 2nd round by the Stars last year. MODO's coach, Ulf Samuelsson, thinks quite highly of him which is saying a lot.

Hägg will be at the U18 Five Nations tournament next week and that should be a good opportunity for him.

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02-03-2013, 04:40 PM
  #611
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? How many more years do you see Umby playing? I don't see a lot.
If you mean playing at that capacity - two or three after this season, possibly more if fortune smiles. The term on that contract is a little absurd - but that's not a now problem.

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02-03-2013, 04:48 PM
  #612
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If you mean playing at that capacity - two or three after this season, possibly more if fortune smiles. The term on that contract is a little absurd - but that's not a now problem.
okay.....just wondering.

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02-03-2013, 04:50 PM
  #613
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Personally I have the first round of the draft broken into about 4 groups.

Group 1 (Mackinnon, Jones) 1,2
Group 2 (Barkov, Lindholm, Drouin, Monahan, Shinkaruk, 4 other guys like Ristolainen and Pulock) 3-12
Group 3 (Domi, Erne, Mantha, Nurse and a bunch of others) 13-early 20's
Group 4 (The rest i.e. Lazar, Rychel) late first early second.

If we are in the 4-12 range I say that we move up to take one of the guys we like as I feel that they are of similar quality and moving up/down would not cost nearly as much as moving up to Group 1 (The price of which I predict will be ridiculous in the extreme.) If we can move for up for a later pick/prospect (i.e. Savard) we would be silly not to go and get our guy.

As far as acquiring more assets for the 2013 draft at this point we are down to shipping Umby and his bloated salary out, or shipping out the enigma also known as Brassard (Given my wording I'm pretty sure you know where I stand on these two trade Ideas ) I am hopeful we might be able to send a D-man like Tyutin out and get another first round pick+ given the inflated market as well as get some other draft picks and prospects by moving the aforementioned forwards.

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02-03-2013, 04:58 PM
  #614
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Didn't Howson let go of the teams scouts after the draft this past offseason? So having 3 1st round picks should be a pretty good barometer of their talent right?

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02-03-2013, 05:05 PM
  #615
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perhaps not for this thread, but kinda is...with the Canucks cap issues next year are you willing to trade as a basis for a trade one of the 1sts for Ryan Kesler? (no i'm not taking into account the Umby issues, nor do i care about them for this)

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02-03-2013, 05:52 PM
  #616
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perhaps not for this thread, but kinda is...with the Canucks cap issues next year are you willing to trade as a basis for a trade one of the 1sts for Ryan Kesler? (no i'm not taking into account the Umby issues, nor do i care about them for this)
No. I'm not sure he is the kind of guy we are looking. A bit of a prima donna?

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02-03-2013, 05:55 PM
  #617
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Didn't Howson let go of the teams scouts after the draft this past offseason? So having 3 1st round picks should be a pretty good barometer of their talent right?
From everything I've heard, pretty much every scout is and always has been on a progression of one-year contracts, with the occasional two-year contract thrown in. The difference is that most of them simply expire on July 1, and it's uncommon to see anyone go before that point.

I'd imagine that it was a combination of a desire to move on (from both sides) as well as a professional courtesy (to allow them a few extra days to make calls and field offers). As far as why it actually became a story, I'd imagine that it's simply finding something somewhat uncommon and then filtering that through the usual anti-Columbus garbage that the hockey media revolves around.

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02-03-2013, 05:56 PM
  #618
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If you mean playing at that capacity - two or three after this season, possibly more if fortune smiles. The term on that contract is a little absurd - but that's not a now problem.
The 25 goal a year capacity or the "where's Umbie?" capacity?

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02-03-2013, 06:02 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Pulock, Shinkaruk, etc ... very good skill guys available in that range.

To answer the topic of the hour: Keep the draft picks, try to stockpile any more we can. One question I ask is: What about Artem Anisimov? He's a restricted free agent after this season; do we re-sign him and keep him as part of our future core, or, do we try to trade him before the draft? I don't know that he nets us another 1st rounder, but he could land us another prospect or pick. Naturally, this all depends on perceived value - if the Jackets think he's worth whatever he's asking, then they will be keeping him.

We have an interesting lineup, full of guys that would be very valuable to teams making stretch playoff runs. I think that we have to remain competitive, but if an offer we can't resist comes along on one of our glut second/third line players, we have to take the deal.
A team would have to offer a lot for me to trade Anisimov. We just don't have enough skill to be trading one of the few guys on our team who has some. I have no problem trading guys like R.J., Brassard, etc.... though.

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02-03-2013, 06:03 PM
  #620
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No sir (re:Ansimov). Good younger player, lot of skill, good start.

I'd rather dump Umby's old azz and hefty salary and use the money to resign Artie.

If we could get a 2nd rounder for him I'd take it and then maybe try to jump back in round 1 if there is a player there we like. Thoughts?
I'd take anything for R.J. He is way overpaid.

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02-03-2013, 06:05 PM
  #621
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A team would have to offer a lot for me to trade Anisimov. We just don't have enough skill to be trading one of the few guys on our team who has some. I have no problem trading guys like R.J., Brassard, etc.... though.
Yep....That's where I'm at.

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02-03-2013, 06:15 PM
  #622
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The 25 goal a year capacity or the "where's Umbie?" capacity?
20-25 goals per year. "Where's Umby" is as variable as Ohio weather.

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02-03-2013, 06:18 PM
  #623
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20-25 goals per year. "Where's Umby" is as variable as Ohio weather. :)
Maybe Umby is just old and that's why he plays much better towards the end of the year (March, April). The arthritis is just too much right now lol....

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02-04-2013, 06:06 PM
  #624
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He doesn't look to be in shape

not willing to go into the corners like he has in the past, or maybe just too slow to get there in time. I dunno. The issue is finding a partner to dance, and I'm not sure how much interest 18 draws right now. If he starts getting some gritty goals fortunes may change.

Wouldn't think of trading Artem, just cause we haven't seen that kind of sniping in the past doesn't mean I can't get used to it eh? Johnson, AA & Tin Tin are pretty much the building blocks I'd keep with our goalies.

If someone wanted to part with Cory Schneider for our 1st next year & Mason I could definitely be convinced, just saying

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02-05-2013, 09:57 PM
  #625
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Big game vs. Cal-gary Thursday. Could be for the league basement and a two game swing.

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