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Jeff Skinner Extension 6 years AAV of $5.725M

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Old
08-08-2012, 05:22 PM
  #276
redsox7327
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Almost fainted when I saw this. Wow. I hope Seguin, Rask, Lucic, and Marchand know they aren't negotiating with Carolina when there deals come up next year or they're going to be in for a bad time.

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08-08-2012, 05:24 PM
  #277
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It's a lot of money, high risk high reward.

If he continues at his pace, it's a fantastic deal for Carolina. If he declines... Yikes. Doubt he will, though. Pretty good deal.

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08-08-2012, 05:25 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by redsox7327 View Post
Almost fainted when I saw this. Wow. I hope Seguin, Rask, Lucic, and Marchand know they aren't negotiating with Carolina when there deals come up next year or they're going to be in for a bad time.
No, they're negotiating with a team that is using $5M in cap space on a goalie who isn't even going to play

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08-08-2012, 05:25 PM
  #279
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I hope the Oilers can get similar deals for Hall and Eberle.

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08-08-2012, 05:46 PM
  #280
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by redsox7327 View Post
Almost fainted when I saw this. Wow. I hope Seguin, Rask, Lucic, and Marchand know they aren't negotiating with Carolina when there deals come up next year or they're going to be in for a bad time.
I could see how Lucic and Marchand might be confused about who they are negotiating with, but Seguin seems like a pretty sharp kid so I'm relatively sure he'll know he's negotiating with Boston.

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08-08-2012, 05:53 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Karmanos didn't "sell half the team". His partner died and that percentage was sold to locals.
Karmanos bought Thewes' 49+% after he died from his estate and owned it after Thewes' death until those minority sales began last year. Karmanos owned 100% of the team and he made the sale and the money went to him (His company). Since he probably sold minority percentages at a price greater than their actual value, I'm sure he made some money off of the purchase from his former partner's estate.

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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
More money from more people > one dead guy's estate.
No, since Karmanos bought that part of the team from the estate. More money from more people minimizes Karmanos' risk back to what it was before his partner died, and he gets to keep the change on the sale(s) after paying off the money he likely borrowed to buy Thewes' 49+%.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the spending has increased now that he's minimized his risk. This is great news for Hurricane fans since the new minority holders on the hook for a while.

I don't think Skinner or some of the other players get their big contracts if that sale was not completed.

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08-08-2012, 05:58 PM
  #282
Boom Boom Anton
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Did it ever come out how much was sold to minority investors? I thought I read that it was in the 20-25% range, but I haven't seen anything official.

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08-08-2012, 06:01 PM
  #283
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Agreed, but conversely we've had 2 years of spending nothing

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08-08-2012, 06:07 PM
  #284
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It did come out, i think it was in the 30% range

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08-08-2012, 06:18 PM
  #285
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will this increase or decrease his trade value?

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08-08-2012, 06:19 PM
  #286
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staal-staal-skinner-semin....... great top 4 forwards

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08-08-2012, 06:25 PM
  #287
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Skinner's smile is worth a million bucks alone. Great face for a franchise.

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08-08-2012, 06:25 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by t0psh3lfclu7ch View Post
will this increase or decrease his trade value?
We aren't trading him, so it doesn't matter.

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Old
08-08-2012, 06:55 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post


The team that is barely over the cap just "screwed up the cap system". Don't pay any attention to the deals Parise and Suter got. Don't pay any attention to Philly's RFA offer to Weber. Don't pay any attention to the contracts given to guys like Gomez. Don't pay any attention to the cap circumventing deals to guys like Luongo and Kovalchuk.

Nope...this one deal is what screwed up the cap system.
Players don't care if a team is near or at the cap. They see comparable offers and force the team to deal with it.

Parise and Suter were UFA and been in the league 7-8 years. That is a LOT different than a 2 year sophomore, that doesn't have much history behind him.

If you can't see that this deal is one of the reasons why the NHL is pushing for a longer extension for rookies, then you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

The fact that a two year veteran is getting as much as a guy like Ryan Getzlaf is going to be really screw up the cap for a LOT of teams.

This is shifting toward; what have you done to what are you going to do type of contract. Paying for potential is risky and throws a huge wrench in contracts.

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08-08-2012, 06:57 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
We aren't trading him, so it doesn't matter.
but hypothetically, if Skinner were traded to the Edmonton Oilers for..say...Corey Potter....

how would the trade value of that contract play out?

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08-08-2012, 07:03 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Players don't care if a team is near or at the cap. They see comparable offers and force the team to deal with it.

Parise and Suter were UFA and been in the league 7-8 years. That is a LOT different than a 2 year sophomore, that doesn't have much history behind him.

If you can't see that this deal is one of the reasons why the NHL is pushing for a longer extension for rookies, then you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

The fact that a two year veteran is getting as much as a guy like Ryan Getzlaf is going to be really screw up the cap for a LOT of teams.

This is shifting toward; what have you done to what are you going to do type of contract. Paying for potential is risky and throws a huge wrench in contracts.
Offering your own homegrown a player a big contract screws it up for everyone how?

NHL wants longer contracts for rookies so they don't have to pay them jack **** for their prime years and when they hit 30 and start declining make even less.

Getzlaf will also be getting a big raise next year, so I think he'll be fine.

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08-08-2012, 07:14 PM
  #292
Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Players don't care if a team is near or at the cap. They see comparable offers and force the team to deal with it.
This happens ALL the time in the NHL, deal with it.

Quote:
Parise and Suter were UFA and been in the league 7-8 years. That is a LOT different than a 2 year sophomore, that doesn't have much history behind him.
So, they still have a much bigger impact on the overall salary structure and the cap than this deal does. Why do you think the NHL is trying to crack down on long term "cap circumvention" type contracts?

Quote:
The fact that a two year veteran is getting as much as a guy like Ryan Getzlaf is going to be really screw up the cap for a LOT of teams.
Maybe you should get your "FACTS" straight.
1) Skinner is making $900K this year and Getzlaf is making $6.125M
2) Skinner is making $4.35M next year and I bet Getzlaf makes a lot more than $6M next year.
3) Getzlaf signed his contract what? 5 years ago? Not exactly comparing apples and oranges now, is it?

Quote:
This is shifting toward; what have you done to what are you going to do type of contract. Paying for potential is risky and throws a huge wrench in contracts.
That doesn't throw a wrench in it, it's always been that way. How is this different than Yakupov with a $3.75M cap hit? or Seguin with a $3.6M cap hit, or Galchenyuk with a $3.3M cap hit? All of these were "what are you going to do" type of contracts...weren't they? Are you blaming those for "screwing up the cap" as well?

You really are delusional if you think this 1 contract is "screwing up the cap system" with all the other contracts out there.

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08-08-2012, 07:14 PM
  #293
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I like how people are praising Rutherford for signing Skinner....it's a re-signing on an RFA who wasn't even an RFA yet. Mike Milbury could've done the same and for less $ (okay bad example he would've traded him but you get the point). Players become RFA's and then they get re-signed, this happens in almost all notable cases with a few exceptions like Turris (which was not over $). Rutherford is just terrible at getting a good contract at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
That was Rutherford's whole plan. With this one contract he screwed over his division and much of his conference. Florida, Winnipeg, Washington all have RFAs coming up they'd prefer not to overpay. Now any rookie who is top 6 or top 4 caliber by the time of their 2nd contract is in the 6 million ballpark. Rutherford doesn't care since they're still a cap floor team or close to it and the only one this might fire back on him with in the near future is Faulk.

I'm willing to bet Skinner offered to sign for 4.75 and Rutherford bumped it up a mil
Yeah keep dreaming thinking he's smart enough to do that or it would work. Those other teams will get their RFA's signed because an RFA isn't gonna be able use Skinner's contract as leverage. They can even let Evander Kane go to arbitration and he won't be awarded more than this (or Benn who's put up Skinner's #'s two yrs in a row. I like Skinner more than Benn but an arbitrator would award Benn this much, not Skinner). They can as easily point to Perron's $3.8 M or Duchene's $3.5 M signings.

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08-08-2012, 07:35 PM
  #294
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Are people thinking that this contract kicks in this year? Cause that's the only way you can say it's an overpayment.

2012-2013: $900K
2013-2014: $4.75M
2014-2019: $6M

From watching this kid play every game and not just when my favorite team plays the Canes, I'm willing to bet in 2 years, he'll be worth $6M. And when he's in year 4-6 of that contract, he'll be at a bargain.

The kid has major talent and he will only continue to grow. For anyone who thinks he's reached his limit at 20 is insane.

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08-08-2012, 07:41 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Players don't care if a team is near or at the cap. They see comparable offers and force the team to deal with it.

Parise and Suter were UFA and been in the league 7-8 years. That is a LOT different than a 2 year sophomore, that doesn't have much history behind him.
Players to score 30 goals at age 18:

Bob Carpenter
Dale Hawerchuk
Brian Bellows
Steve Yzerman
Jimmy Carson
Trevor Linden
Sidney Crosby
Jeff Skinner

18 Year Olds to Play in the All Star Game
Steve Yzerman
Jeff Skinner

I'd say that there is plenty of history behind Jeff Skinner (and I think there was another mark he reached that was shared with 6 other HoF'ers and one random player. I can't remember what it was).

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08-08-2012, 07:42 PM
  #296
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I like how people are praising Rutherford for signing Skinner....it's a re-signing on an RFA who wasn't even an RFA yet. Mike Milbury could've done the same and for less $ (okay bad example he would've traded him but you get the point). Players become RFA's and then they get re-signed, this happens in almost all notable cases with a few exceptions like Turris (which was not over $). Rutherford is just terrible at getting a good contract at the end of the day.
Except for the contracts of J. Staal, Jokinen, Pitkanen, Tlusty, McBain, Harrison, Semin, and Skinner.

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08-08-2012, 08:10 PM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Players don't care if a team is near or at the cap. They see comparable offers and force the team to deal with it.

Parise and Suter were UFA and been in the league 7-8 years. That is a LOT different than a 2 year sophomore, that doesn't have much history behind him.

If you can't see that this deal is one of the reasons why the NHL is pushing for a longer extension for rookies, then you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

The fact that a two year veteran is getting as much as a guy like Ryan Getzlaf is going to be really screw up the cap for a LOT of teams.

This is shifting toward; what have you done to what are you going to do type of contract. Paying for potential is risky and throws a huge wrench in contracts.
So my salary floor team ****s up your salary cap team? Cry me a river

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Rutherford is just terrible at getting a good contract at the end of the day.
Voted most inaccurate statement of the day

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08-08-2012, 08:40 PM
  #298
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He's a 1st liner, not a bad deal like many are suggesting

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08-08-2012, 09:00 PM
  #299
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Offering your own homegrown a player a big contract screws it up for everyone how?
Drives up the price on the market. You don't think agents look at other teams and other players and go, what makes this guy better than my guy? That's the agent's job and you can better believe that it makes a huge difference. I can't wait until Hall, Eberle, Granlund, Seguin, Tarasenko are up for their 2nd contract. 6-7 million for a second year contract isn't going to be that far away.

Quote:
NHL wants longer contracts for rookies so they don't have to pay them jack **** for their prime years and when they hit 30 and start declining make even less.
And you wonder why some owners want that after seeing Skinner get a massive second contract?

Quote:
Getzlaf will also be getting a big raise next year, so I think he'll be fine.
Yes, and one of the reasons, is because of these contracts. It's oneupmanship at it's finest.

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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
This happens ALL the time in the NHL, deal with it.
It does and it's becoming and more ridiculous.

Quote:
So, they still have a much bigger impact on the overall salary structure and the cap than this deal does. Why do you think the NHL is trying to crack down on long term "cap circumvention" type contracts?
Because at least guys like Luongo and Parise have proved something in this league and have history behind them. There is a massive difference between a two year veteran and a seven year veteran in this league. At least you know what you're getting with the seven year veteran.

Spending a good chunk of your cap on unproven players is going to create issues.

Quote:
Maybe you should get your "FACTS" straight.
1) Skinner is making $900K this year and Getzlaf is making $6.125M
2) Skinner is making $4.35M next year and I bet Getzlaf makes a lot more than $6M next year.
Skinner's cap hit is still 5.72 next year and Getzlaf is 5.35.

Quote:
3) Getzlaf signed his contract what? 5 years ago? Not exactly comparing apples and oranges now, is it?
Actually it is. When teams are going to be forced to pay 6 to 8 million on a rookie in a few years...what are going to be saying then?

Quote:
That doesn't throw a wrench in it, it's always been that way. How is this different than Yakupov with a $3.75M cap hit? or Seguin with a $3.6M cap hit, or Galchenyuk with a $3.3M cap hit? All of these were "what are you going to do" type of contracts...weren't they? Are you blaming those for "screwing up the cap" as well?
Those are FIRST YEAR contracts. Those are structured. Teams have a set cap on their rookies. It's going to be interesting when they come up for their second contract.

Quote:
You really are delusional if you think this 1 contract is "screwing up the cap system" with all the other contracts out there.
It starts with one contract. Vanek, DiPietro, Luongo. It just goes from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
Players to score 30 goals at age 18:

Bob Carpenter
Dale Hawerchuk
Brian Bellows
Steve Yzerman
Jimmy Carson
Trevor Linden
Sidney Crosby
Jeff Skinner

18 Year Olds to Play in the All Star Game
Steve Yzerman
Jeff Skinner

I'd say that there is plenty of history behind Jeff Skinner (and I think there was another mark he reached that was shared with 6 other HoF'ers and one random player. I can't remember what it was).
There was history behind Minnesota's historic collapse last year as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Anton View Post
So my salary floor team ****s up your salary cap team? Cry me a river
Your team that can't attract free agents? That can't get to the floor because of their owner?

People whined about the Parise and Suter contracts but this second year contract does more damage than those two.

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08-08-2012, 09:16 PM
  #300
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post

It does and it's becoming and more ridiculous.
Great, you proved my point. This all started when you commented about the Canes wrecking the cap with this contract. Now you agree that this happens all the time and is becoming more ridiculous so therefore the Canes can't be wrecking the cap with this contract.

Quote:
Skinner's cap hit is still 5.72 next year and Getzlaf is 5.35.
Once again you are incorrect. Skinner's cap hit for 12/13 is $1.4M and Getzlaf's is $5.325M. See, $1.4M is less than $5.325M so Skinner is not making the same as Getzlaf. In 13/14, Skinner's salary is $4.35M and his cap hit is $5.7M. I can almost guarantee you that both Getzlaf's salary and Cap hit will be significantly more than Skinners as he is a UFA after this season and will cash in.

So, your comment that Skinner is getting as much as a guy like Ryan Getzlaf is factually incorrect.

Quote:
Actually it is. When teams are going to be forced to pay 6 to 8 million on a rookie in a few years...what are going to be saying then?
Easy, they can offer him a QO, take him to arbitration, use contracts other than Skinners as a comparison, etc.. Even so, you are still comparing apples and oranges comparing a contract signed 4-5 years ago to one signed today.


Quote:
Your team that can't attract free agents? That can't get to the floor because of their owner?

People whined about the Parise and Suter contracts but this second year contract does more damage than those two.
Translation. It's ok for my team to throw gobs of money at UFAs and drive up the market and I'll find some way to justify it. But when I see a contract I don't like, I'll

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