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2012 Canada-Russia Challenge

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08-14-2012, 09:14 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Not true...

He should join the camp now that the challenge is over. He'll stay in Quebec until the Sabres rookie camp... or until the new CBA!
Well, a lot of teams seem to invite rookies first and have veterans report later on.

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08-14-2012, 09:28 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Well, a lot of teams seem to invite rookies first and have veterans report later on.
Absolutely not. Some veterans aren't playing in inter-squad games when there are too much players for two teams but they're at the camp anyway.

I don't know about the OHL or WHL but in the QMJHL, everybody has to report first day of camp. Sometimes there are exceptions though (Euro's visa hasn't been accepted yet, player in an international competition).

As an example, there are 5 players missing at the Remparts camp:

Grigorenko (Can-Rus challenge)
Erne (U18 Ivan Hlinka)
Duclair (U18 Ivan Hlinka)
Rioux (U20 France)
Kucherov (injured, expected on Aug. 15th)

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08-14-2012, 09:32 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Absolutely not. Some veterans aren't playing in inter-squad games when there are too much players for two teams but they're at the camp anyway.

I don't know about the OHL or WHL but in the QMJHL, everybody has to report first day of camp. Sometimes there are exceptions though (Euro's visa hasn't been accepted yet, player in an international competition).

As an example, there are 5 players missing at the Remparts camp:

Grigorenko (Can-Rus challenge)
Erne (U18 Ivan Hlinka)
Duclair (U18 Ivan Hlinka)
Rioux (U20 France)
Kucherov (injured, expected on Aug. 15th)
And here's a counter-example:
Quote:
The Mooseheads will welcome close to 30 rookies to Cole Harbour Place on Wednesday August 15th to Sunday, August 19th. The Mooseheads rookies will battle the Cape Breton Screaming Eagles rookies in two pre-season games, Saturday August 18th at the Halifax Forum and Sunday, August 19th at Cape Breton University. The Mooseheads veterans will report to Camp Monday, August 20th. There will be no training camp intra-squad games this season.
http://www.halifaxmooseheads.ca/arti...re-season-info

I've seen a few teams do it that way.

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08-14-2012, 09:43 PM
  #129
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I said in the QMJHL, but I meant in Quebec (province).

In Quebec, the main reason is Cegep (school), which starts next Monday and kids have to know by then where they're going to play because they can't register elsewhere once school has started. There are no Cegeps in the Maritimes. That's why most main camps for Quebec teams started yesterday and most camps in the Maritimes will start later. Camps would probably start at the end of August if it wasn't for school.

Remparts team should be decided by Sunday.

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08-14-2012, 09:47 PM
  #130
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Seeing how Grigs defensive awareness seems to be very good, maybe a 3rd line role with Ott and Leino or Gerbe could work next season.

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08-14-2012, 09:56 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
I said in the QMJHL, but I meant in Quebec (province).

In Quebec, the main reason is Cegep (school), which starts next Monday and kids have to know by then where they're going to play because they can't register elsewhere once school has started. There are no Cegeps in the Maritimes. That's why most main camps for Quebec teams started yesterday and most camps in the Maritimes will start later. Camps would probably start at the end of August if it wasn't for school.

Remparts team should be decided by Sunday.
Ah yes, that makes more sense then and you're obviously correct.

I like that Cégep starts so early.
It's a charming quirk of the Q and it means that there's hockey earlier.

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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Seeing how Grigs defensive awareness seems to be very good, maybe a 3rd line role with Ott and Leino or Gerbe could work next season.
No reason to throw him into the NHL right away just to have him be play a role that they are almost assuredly not grooming him for (defensive center).

The best place for him next season has always been QC.

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08-14-2012, 10:03 PM
  #132
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Meh, he was very underwhelming but it's just some exhibition series. Still, I would've been much happier if he got more than 1 point.

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08-14-2012, 10:11 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Meh, he was very underwhelming but it's just some exhibition series. Still, I would've been much happier if he got more than 1 point.
Last year in the Q, people were all talking about how Charles Hudon outplayed Grigorenko in the Ivan Hlinka and how he would challenge him for top pick from the Q. Hudon even said Grigs was invisible.

Grigs had 85 pts and Hudon a disappointment with 66 pts (had 60 the year before), Grigs was a 1st round pick and Hudon a 5th round pick.

Hudon just outplayed Grigo again.

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08-15-2012, 12:21 AM
  #134
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I can't wait to see grigs in training camp. I would be absolutely shocked if he didn't play at least 9 games with the sabres this year. His vision is unreal and I loved his defensive play. I want to see him play with NHLers I really think he can show a lot more with better players around him!

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08-15-2012, 12:24 AM
  #135
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Leino-Grigorenko-Pommers is something I'd like to see in preseason/ 9 game try out

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08-15-2012, 05:04 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Last year in the Q, people were all talking about how Charles Hudon outplayed Grigorenko in the Ivan Hlinka and how he would challenge him for top pick from the Q. Hudon even said Grigs was invisible.

Grigs had 85 pts and Hudon a disappointment with 66 pts (had 60 the year before), Grigs was a 1st round pick and Hudon a 5th round pick.

Hudon just outplayed Grigo again.

Funny thing I saw Hudon skating sided by side with Grigorenko,Hudon was saying something. Hudon's a yapper isn't he.

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08-15-2012, 05:11 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Ah yes, that makes more sense then and you're obviously correct.

I like that Cégep starts so early.
It's a charming quirk of the Q and it means that there's hockey earlier.

No reason to throw him into the NHL right away just to have him be play a role that they are almost assuredly not grooming him for (defensive center).

The best place for him next season has always been QC.
Yeah, hopefully his game can go to another level in Quebec. He just doesn't look ready yet. I hope they don't try to use the expiring of the CHL agreement to stick him in Rochester.

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08-15-2012, 05:58 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Tra La La View Post
Funny thing I saw Hudon skating sided by side with Grigorenko,Hudon was saying something. Hudon's a yapper isn't he.
Big yapper yes.

First pre-season game they played against each other last year, Grigorenko nailed him pretty hard.


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08-15-2012, 08:21 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Ah yes, that makes more sense then and you're obviously correct.

I like that Cégep starts so early.
It's a charming quirk of the Q and it means that there's hockey earlier.

No reason to throw him into the NHL right away just to have him be play a role that they are almost assuredly not grooming him for (defensive center).

The best place for him next season has always been QC.
That makes absolutely no sense at all. Under Lindy Ruff´s system the forwards are held accountable for defensive play. Having Grigorenko on the third line learning the defensive system is the perfect place for him. Where you expecting him to center the first line game 1??? You can´t teach skill but you can teach defence. Same as Couturier, being able to see if Grigs can handle a defensive role while his offensive capabilities mature is where I see Grigs playing.

In Fact could I go as far as saying that could of been his assignment(To work on defensive positioning) in the Challenge? Possible.

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08-15-2012, 08:57 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by sonnEbunny View Post
I can't wait to see grigs in training camp. I would be absolutely shocked if he didn't play at least 9 games with the sabres this year. His vision is unreal and I loved his defensive play. I want to see him play with NHLers I really think he can show a lot more with better players around him!
This. I think a lot more of those passes he was making end up in the back of the net with NHLers as linemates. His decision-making was quick and largely good. A few turnovers here and there, but good backchecking. Good positioning defensively, doesn't look like he'll be a liability in his own end once he gets a good grasp of Ruff's system. I think he'd be a good fit between Leino and Pommer...I think that could be a strong puck-possession line, but we'll see how he does at training camp.
Another year of seasoning in the Q may end up being what he gets, but I think he's shown enough to get a long look at camp and probably his 9-game tryout.

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08-15-2012, 02:20 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Tra La La View Post
Yeah, hopefully his game can go to another level in Quebec. He just doesn't look ready yet. I hope they don't try to use the expiring of the CHL agreement to stick him in Rochester.
Nothing will happen with that.
The AHL will still honor CHL player contracts and the only exceptions would be for players with junior eligibility remaining that have already played in the NHL (Nugent-Hopkins).

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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
That makes absolutely no sense at all. Under Lindy Ruff´s system the forwards are held accountable for defensive play. Having Grigorenko on the third line learning the defensive system is the perfect place for him. Where you expecting him to center the first line game 1??? You can´t teach skill but you can teach defence. Same as Couturier, being able to see if Grigs can handle a defensive role while his offensive capabilities mature is where I see Grigs playing.

In Fact could I go as far as saying that could of been his assignment(To work on defensive positioning) in the Challenge? Possible.
Couturier was drafted for his defensive prowess and his offensive prowess.
Grigorenko was drafted only for his offensive prowess.

Couturier made the NHL at 18 because he's been elite defensively for years.
Grigorenko only found out where his defensive zone was this past season.
There's no comparison.

Grigorenko was drafted to be an offensive player and he needs to develop where he'll be able to play that role.
Just because he learned how to play some defense over the past season doesn't mean he's ready for the NHL.

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08-15-2012, 04:31 PM
  #142
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Had some technical issues of course but here's the final game:


The first period video might look a bit weird because I had to resample it.
It was all jittery because I wasn't able to convert it to variable frame rate in a way that my video editor likes (timecodes were messed up somehow).
I didn't want to resample it but after messing with it for a long time I decided it wasn't worth trying to figure out.

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08-15-2012, 05:20 PM
  #143
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Full game 4 on demand. http://watch.tsn.ca/hockey-canada-ev...llenge-game-4/

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08-15-2012, 05:21 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Had some technical issues of course but here's the final game:


The first period video might look a bit weird because I had to resample it.
It was all jittery because I wasn't able to convert it to variable frame rate in a way that my video editor likes (timecodes were messed up somehow).
I didn't want to resample it but after messing with it for a long time I decided it wasn't worth trying to figure out.
Thanks. I'm not up to watching the full game again. I'm gonna watch your cut up in a bit though

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08-16-2012, 02:17 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Nothing will happen with that.
The AHL will still honor CHL player contracts and the only exceptions would be for players with junior eligibility remaining that have already played in the NHL (Nugent-Hopkins).

Couturier was drafted for his defensive prowess and his offensive prowess.
Grigorenko was drafted only for his offensive prowess.

Couturier made the NHL at 18 because he's been elite defensively for years.
Grigorenko only found out where his defensive zone was this past season.
There's no comparison.

Grigorenko was drafted to be an offensive player and he needs to develop where he'll be able to play that role.
Just because he learned how to play some defense over the past season doesn't mean he's ready for the NHL.
RIGHT, and who decides that? Lindy Ruff fielding calls from you is he? Not to mentioned you just proved my point, defence can be taught, skill cant


Last edited by heartsabres*: 08-16-2012 at 02:24 AM.
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08-16-2012, 02:59 AM
  #146
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RIGHT, and who decides that? Lindy Ruff fielding calls from you is he? Not to mentioned you just proved my point, defence can be taught, skill cant
What good is there putting Grigorenko out there against top lines? He's not ready for that sort of defensive assignment yet, if anyone is going there out of the G men, it would be Girgensons. Either keep Grigorenko in a scoring role on our team or put him in the Q.

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08-16-2012, 10:17 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
What good is there putting Grigorenko out there against top lines? He's not ready for that sort of defensive assignment yet, if anyone is going there out of the G men, it would be Girgensons. Either keep Grigorenko in a scoring role on our team or put him in the Q.
And Next year, people will still question whether or not he's ready to defend NHL players. Regardless of how well he does. His defensive ability will always be questioned. We drafted him for his Offensive game.

I think some people drink too much of Ruff's Kool Aid and expect EVERY player to be good Defensively AND Offensively. I understand you need to have some defensive ability, but if it hampers your offensive players' abilities then whats the point. Sure you might be able to stop many teams from scoring goals but if you're putting trust into playing a ton of 2-1 and 3-2 games, you might find yourself on the wrong side of the score more often than you might hope.

I'm with the people who say to start him THIS year. The problem with some of the people, is that they put too high of expectations. He has to learn sometime. I'd rather have his offensive game for us to use this year and let him have his growing pains.

If you put him with guys like Pominville and say Ott, he would have two players that would allow him to play HIS game much like Foligno allows Ennis and Stafford to play their game.

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