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Trade Rumor and Proposal Thread Part II

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Old
08-13-2012, 10:05 PM
  #101
Bryanbryoil
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Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
I suppose that's true but now we're looking at pretty insane hypotheticals. Nothing in Benn's past has even hinted that he has a desire to play in Edmonton so I don't really think it's realistic to consider that an option.

Let's be honest here: Justin Schultz was one of the first big fish we've nabbed in the last two decades and I still think the biggest factor behind his decision was playing on a young team where he could get playing time and be allowed to make some mistakes.
IMO the reality is that it'd need to be some crackpot idea like the one that I've put forward for them to even consider moving Benn in the first place.

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08-13-2012, 10:07 PM
  #102
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IMO the reality is that it'd need to be some crackpot idea like the one that I've put forward for them to even consider moving Benn in the first place.
Not necessarily. If the team disagrees with Benn's idea of what his value is, they could certainly float him out there looking at potential offers. However, in that event, he has maximum value and thus you're going to need to pay in quality assets.

In the case of the Oilers, the only way I see that working out is Yakupov. Boy though, move Yakupov for a more proven player like Kane or Benn and sign a veteran top 4 guy like Roszival and this team looks playoff ready.

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08-13-2012, 10:14 PM
  #103
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Trading RNH would be a debacle of massive proportions. Don't even go there.
The Oilers are going to be in big trouble capwise once RNH has a chance to be a free agent as Eberle, Hall and RNH are top players who can score 20+ goals yearly for Edmonton meaning that they will command fare market value and I believe they each deserve 4 million plus as they have shown in their first year they can do anything that the Oilers have asked of them. If Yukopov (sp) does the same and can score 20+ per year the Oilers will not be able to keep all of them.

A fan wrote on tsn.ca to an article about Hall http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=403030

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The 'points per game' column is a little misleading as Skinner put up superior numbers in his rookie season (0.77 points/game) but even so there's no question that he's near the bottom of this list in terms of offense generated when the extension was signed. The fact that his new contract's cap hit eclipses that of players like Bobby Ryan and John Tavares should not be surprising – although his numbers are inferior, a rising cap for the league as a whole means that he actually costs less as a percentage of his team's total cap room than either player. Hall and Eberle both out-performed Skinner in terms of offensive production last season; Hall by a significant margin and Eberle by an even wider one. Both players, if signed today, would undoubtedly command more money than Carolina's young star just earned. Report this comment!
Basically the same could be said about Eberle and RNH and if Yukopov proves to be able to score 20+ per year it will be expensive to keep them all signed to long term contracts as they will want fare market value. I have not seen many Oilers taken a discount to stay an Oiler.

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08-13-2012, 10:21 PM
  #104
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I'm a HUGE Tyler Ennis fan, it would be cool to target him, but more than likely we aren't targeting an RFA, I think EDM is relaxing while talking with Taylor Hall's agency and Jordan Eberle's agency about extensions.

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08-13-2012, 10:21 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by scoringmachine View Post
The Oilers are going to be in big trouble capwise once RNH has a chance to be a free agent as Eberle, Hall and RNH are top players who can score 20+ goals yearly for Edmonton meaning that they will command fare market value and I believe they each deserve 4 million plus as they have shown in their first year they can do anything that the Oilers have asked of them. If Yukopov (sp) does the same and can score 20+ per year the Oilers will not be able to keep all of them.

A fan wrote on tsn.ca to an article about Hall http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=403030



Basically the same could be said about Eberle and RNH and if Yukopov proves to be able to score 20+ per year it will be expensive to keep them all signed to long term contracts as they will want fare market value. I have not seen many Oilers taken a discount to stay an Oiler.
So what's the cap at? $30 million? We could sign all 4 for $6 million or so and be fine.

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08-13-2012, 10:22 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
I'm a HUGE Tyler Ennis fan, it would be cool to target him, but more than likely we aren't targeting an RFA, I think EDM is relaxing while talking with Taylor Hall's agency and Jordan Eberle's agency about extensions.
Is he strong on his skates? The last thing that we need is another small player that's weak.

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08-13-2012, 10:27 PM
  #107
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The gap between Ennis and Gagner is not large enough to justify giving up the assets it would take to get Buffalo to part with him.

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08-13-2012, 10:37 PM
  #108
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The gap between Ennis and Gagner is not large enough to justify giving up the assets it would take to get Buffalo to part with him.
Pretty much.

We need to upgrade on defense, size, and overall quality on Gagner if we are giving up assets to find a 2C, and Ennis simply doesn't improve any of those categories by enough of a margin, if at all.

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08-13-2012, 10:38 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
Pretty much.

We need to upgrade on defense, size, and overall quality on Gagner if we are giving up assets to find a 2C, and Ennis simply doesn't improve any of those categories by enough of a margin, if at all.
Unless Ennis is much stronger on his skates or much better offensively, it's just running in place IMO.

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08-13-2012, 10:52 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Unless Ennis is much stronger on his skates or much better offensively, it's just running in place IMO.
I watched him a lot in the W, and he probably has a bit more strength on his skates, but he's just as bad as Gagner defending the cycle and he gets knocked off the puck pretty easily against bigger centres.

He has a quicker first step though, so at times he can create more offense than Gagner off the rush, but it's not worth the price for the slight upgrade.

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08-13-2012, 11:03 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I watched him a lot in the W, and he probably has a bit more strength on his skates, but he's just as bad as Gagner defending the cycle and he gets knocked off the puck pretty easily against bigger centres.

He has a quicker first step though, so at times he can create more offense than Gagner off the rush, but it's not worth the price for the slight upgrade.
Basically unless it'd be a straight up trade it makes little sense. Even then it's the devil your know vs. the devil you don't.

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08-13-2012, 11:39 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Basically unless it'd be a straight up trade it makes little sense. Even then it's the devil your know vs. the devil you don't.
But Ennis is so young still...

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08-13-2012, 11:45 PM
  #113
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But Ennis is so young still...
I know, those two months just give Ennis so much more potential to grow and imprve compared to Gagner!

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08-14-2012, 12:22 AM
  #114
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Ahh yes, other team's fans telling us how unfortunate we are that we'll lose one of our young superstars.

First off, even if they both sign long-term at $6M each, it still only adds up to $24M. That's only an $11.5M gain on what we are spending on them this year given the huge size of cap hit that #1 picks get. To put that in perspective, we could almost afford to add that right now and that's with Souray hitting us for $1.5M this season and Khabibulin at $3.75M.

Hall and Eberle aren't due for a raise until 2013-14 - interestingly enough, that's when Gagner's $3.2M and Whitney's $4M come off the books. Nugent-Hopkins isn't up for a raise until 2014/15 - interestingly enough, that's when Hemsky's $5M comes off the books. Yakupov isn't due a raise until 2015-16 - interestingly enough, that's when Horcoff's $5.5M comes off the books.

Tambellini has the contracts balanced well. The Oilers do not have any cap trouble whatsoever and if we want to, we can easily afford to bring back all four players under the cap. What no one ever seems to mention is that ***IF*** all four of our young guns are making $6M+ a season, that means they have all developed into pretty much point/game stars in the NHL. If that's the case, we have a wealth of riches at forward unlike what any other team in the NHL has had in recent memory. Even the 2003-04 Lightning squad only had 3 players above 79 points and the 4th, Lecavalier, was at 66.

If all four develop like expected, we suddenly have a lot more options available to us. If Yakupov is making $6M, he's a legit 35+ goal scorer and his value in a trade is worth significantly more than it is now. Maybe in three years we decide to restructure the payroll and move a young star in Yakupov (who has star-power value now) for a defenceman making a similar contract.

I love the cries from teams around the league that we have to restructure our team NOW or we'll never be able to keep it together. That's utter garbage and I'm thankful that Tambellini has created a salary structure where we can say with complete certainty that we're not going to have an issue paying to keep our stars.
And it's not like everyone else that we have makes peanuts. Horcoff $5.5, Hemsky $5, Whitney $4.?, Schultz' $3.75 each, Khabby $3.75, Gagner $3.2, etc.

Ditch Horcoff's hit when the time comes for a player that deserves that kind of coin, Khabby will be off the hook so our goalie tandem will make less, Whitney if he doesn't bounce back hits the pavement, then we start moving guys like Klefbom in who makes less $. We are far from having troubles, look at how much Pitt has invested in Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Fleury, Neal, Orpik and Martin, that's a total of $17.4 for Malkin and Crosby alone, at $6 million per for our kids that's $18 million for 3 of them. The rest of the guys make $22.25 million. That's Damn near $40 million ($39.65 million to be exact) for 7 players. So if we give our guys $6 million each that leaves us $15.65 million to sign our top 7 if we decide to have a similar salary structure, and this is before Letang gets his big payday. Then they have 6 guys that make between $1.8 and $3.75 million. I think we'll be just fine unless the big 4 earn Crosby $.

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08-14-2012, 01:12 AM
  #115
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I wasn't suggesting that we go after Ennis, as only a Gagner for Ennis swap would make sense (and even then it's just small C for small C) but Ennis has sick hands and he had 27 points in his last 26 games, not to mention he's from Edmonton. I'm a fan.

Logically, only Benn and the defense RFA's would make sense IF they targeted an RFA

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08-14-2012, 01:14 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
And it's not like everyone else that we have makes peanuts. Horcoff $5.5, Hemsky $5, Whitney $4.?, Schultz' $3.75 each, Khabby $3.75, Gagner $3.2, etc.

Ditch Horcoff's hit when the time comes for a player that deserves that kind of coin, Khabby will be off the hook so our goalie tandem will make less, Whitney if he doesn't bounce back hits the pavement, then we start moving guys like Klefbom in who makes less $. We are far from having troubles, look at how much Pitt has invested in Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Fleury, Neal, Orpik and Martin, that's a total of $17.4 for Malkin and Crosby alone, at $6 million per for our kids that's $18 million for 3 of them. The rest of the guys make $22.25 million. That's Damn near $40 million ($39.65 million to be exact) for 7 players. So if we give our guys $6 million each that leaves us $15.65 million to sign our top 7 if we decide to have a similar salary structure, and this is before Letang gets his big payday. Then they have 6 guys that make between $1.8 and $3.75 million. I think we'll be just fine unless the big 4 earn Crosby $.
I was bored so I just made a thread detailing all of this.

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08-14-2012, 01:43 AM
  #117
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I agree... the Oilers will have no trouble signing their big 4 (big 5 if Schultz develops as expected).

They also have an ace in the hole with Katz. Other fanbases have to realize that the Oilers are one of the healthier teams in the NHL financially AND have one of the richest owners.

I can certainly see the scenario where they use any means possible to make cap space available if indeed they have too many top players who are good enough to be commanding top dollars. As other have said... that's a GOOD problems to have.

Sorry to disappoint the fans from other teams but this team won't be forced to rip all its best pieces apart because of the salary cap no matter how much other people would like them to.

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08-14-2012, 02:19 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by scoringmachine View Post
The Oilers are going to be in big trouble capwise once RNH has a chance to be a free agent as Eberle, Hall and RNH are top players who can score 20+ goals yearly for Edmonton meaning that they will command fare market value and I believe they each deserve 4 million plus as they have shown in their first year they can do anything that the Oilers have asked of them. If Yukopov (sp) does the same and can score 20+ per year the Oilers will not be able to keep all of them.

A fan wrote on tsn.ca to an article about Hall http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=403030



Basically the same could be said about Eberle and RNH and if Yukopov proves to be able to score 20+ per year it will be expensive to keep them all signed to long term contracts as they will want fare market value. I have not seen many Oilers taken a discount to stay an Oiler.
Those people obviously have not seen the Oilers cap. We got MORE than enough room to sign all 4 and still have enough for the rest of the team. Tambo structured the contracts perfectly to the point that each big contract right now (Horcoff, Hemsky, Whitney, Khabibulin) would be off the books at or before each kid get's their raise. We have nothing to worry about and we'll be competing for years with these guys. So you can forget your RNH/Yakupov/Eberle/Hall to ______ for _______ fantasy dreams.

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08-14-2012, 06:05 AM
  #119
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The Oilers are going to be in big trouble capwise once RNH has a chance to be a free agent as Eberle, Hall and RNH are top players who can score 20+ goals yearly for Edmonton meaning that they will command fare market value and I believe they each deserve 4 million plus as they have shown in their first year they can do anything that the Oilers have asked of them. If Yukopov (sp) does the same and can score 20+ per year the Oilers will not be able to keep all of them.

A fan wrote on tsn.ca to an article about Hall http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=403030



Basically the same could be said about Eberle and RNH and if Yukopov proves to be able to score 20+ per year it will be expensive to keep them all signed to long term contracts as they will want fare market value. I have not seen many Oilers taken a discount to stay an Oiler.

Pittsburgh has $26M invested in their top 4 forwards. That's an average of $6.5M per. They have a $5M dollar defenseman and a $5M goalie. They also have $10M in cap space.

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08-14-2012, 09:13 AM
  #120
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Pittsburgh has $26M invested in their top 4 forwards. That's an average of $6.5M per. They have a $5M dollar defenseman and a $5M goalie. They also have $10M in cap space.
Exactly.

Even in the worst case scenario, you go all in for 2-3 years like Chicago did and if need be try to rebuild your depth with cheap/young players before you let one of your top 4 walk (hasn't really worked out perfectly for them yet but they have a cup to show for it).

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08-14-2012, 09:19 AM
  #121
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Exactly.

Even in the worst case scenario, you go all in for 2-3 years like Chicago did and if need be try to rebuild your depth with cheap/young players before you let one of your top 4 walk (hasn't really worked out perfectly for them yet but they have a cup to show for it).
We should be damn happy if we win the cup, forget this having a dynasty crap. If you can win the cup and be in the playoffs for years you take it and run.

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08-14-2012, 09:27 AM
  #122
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We should be damn happy if we win the cup, forget this having a dynasty crap. If you can win the cup and be in the playoffs for years you take it and run.
Agree 100%.

Similar discussion on the Team's morning show this morning, regarding the Nationals shutting Strasburg down before playoffs to manage his innings pitched on the year and avoid possible long term wear on his arm. Strudwick was saying as the best team in the league, you keep your best pitcher in for playoffs (risking possible long term effects) to try and win a championship. Nielson was saying that if Strasburg stays healthy, they could be in the playoffs every year due to his regular season performance. Obviously baseball is a little different because they only pitch 1 in every 4 or 5 games but still.

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08-14-2012, 09:37 AM
  #123
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Agree 100%.

Similar discussion on the Team's morning show this morning, regarding the Nationals shutting Strasburg down before playoffs to manage his innings pitched on the year and avoid possible long term wear on his arm. Strudwick was saying as the best team in the league, you keep your best pitcher in for playoffs (risking possible long term effects) to try and win a championship. Nielson was saying that if Strasburg stays healthy, they could be in the playoffs every year due to his regular season performance. Obviously baseball is a little different because they only pitch 1 in every 4 or 5 games but still.
There was talk last week or the week before on this on one of the American shows. I don't know what to say as I don't know what the recovery of a Tommy John injury is like.

The thing is Baseball IMO is a whole hell of a lot harder to win. Unless of course you have some committment from ownership.

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08-14-2012, 09:46 AM
  #124
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Really like Pacioretty's new deal. 6 years at 4.5mil. Even if he slips to 20g-20a he'll be a decent contract.

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08-14-2012, 09:51 AM
  #125
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Really like Pacioretty's new deal. 6 years at 4.5mil. Even if he slips to 20g-20a he'll be a decent contract.
I think it's a great value contract for the Canadiens. They signed him to almost the identical 6 yr contract that Hemsky signed, 6 summers ago!! The Oilers need a Pacioretty type player.

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