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Old
08-14-2012, 02:01 PM
  #101
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I didn't like Kunitz staying with Geno and Neal last year when Sid came back and I'll like it way less if he stays with them this year.
Yep it would be stupid. The battle in camp should be for Geno's left wing.

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Old
08-15-2012, 10:16 AM
  #102
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I guess we see things differently. The one open spot is for a skilled guy, a scorer...preferably both. Kunitz and Dupuis play the same role on their lines, so I'd like to see them split up.

The guy who plays with Crosby and Dupuis could have bigger upside than Kunitz. I suppose Tangradi fits well with Malkin and Neal but there's no defensive presence there and Geno would probably be forced to play too much in his own end. Besides, Bylsma doesn't like Tangradi and nothing he does this training camp will change that. This organization (rightly or wrongly) views Tangradi as a bottom sixer.

That opening is going to go to someone else.

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08-15-2012, 10:39 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I guess we see things differently. The one open spot is for a skilled guy, a scorer...preferably both. Kunitz and Dupuis play the same role on their lines, so I'd like to see them split up.

The guy who plays with Crosby and Dupuis could have bigger upside than Kunitz. I suppose Tangradi fits well with Malkin and Neal but there's no defensive presence there and Geno would probably be forced to play too much in his own end. Besides, Bylsma doesn't like Tangradi and nothing he does this training camp will change that. This organization (rightly or wrongly) views Tangradi as a bottom sixer.

That opening is going to go to someone else.
if we had someone else I would agree with you. I just really hope TK doesn't become that someone else.

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08-15-2012, 10:52 AM
  #104
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Every lineup that's been posted makes me realize more and more that we are all being a bit foolish thinking that we don't need another top 6 fwd.

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08-15-2012, 08:27 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
Every lineup that's been posted makes me realize more and more that we are all being a bit foolish thinking that we don't need another top 6 fwd.
I think its more of what lines we have at this point. I think a trade to upgrade is inevitable at this point, and just a matter of when and for who.

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08-15-2012, 08:44 PM
  #106
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You've definitely got to limit Cooke's top line minutes. Just have a wing rotation of Dupuis, Cooke, and Tangradi for the top 3 lines. It will work itself out.

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis/Cooke/Tangradi
Dupuis/Cooke/Tangradi - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis/Cooke/Tangradi - Sutter - Kennedy
Jeffrey/Glass - Vitale - Adams

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Old
08-15-2012, 09:10 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunitz View Post
You've definitely got to limit Cooke's top line minutes. Just have a wing rotation of Dupuis, Cooke, and Tangradi for the top 3 lines. It will work itself out.

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis/Cooke/Tangradi
Dupuis/Cooke/Tangradi - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis/Cooke/Tangradi - Sutter - Kennedy
Jeffrey/Glass - Vitale - Adams
Damn that's downright logical

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08-16-2012, 08:11 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunitz View Post
You've definitely got to limit Cooke's top line minutes. Just have a wing rotation of Dupuis, Cooke, and Tangradi for the top 3 lines. It will work itself out.

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis/Cooke/Tangradi
Dupuis/Cooke/Tangradi - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis/Cooke/Tangradi - Sutter - Kennedy
Jeffrey/Glass - Vitale - Adams
Tangradi getting top line minutes and Jeffrey fighting for top 12? Don't understand Kennedy's relegation to 3rd line specialist either (relative to our current lineup). A 3rd line Kennedy will outscore a 1st line Tangradi.

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08-16-2012, 08:31 AM
  #109
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Malking-Crosby-Neal
Kunitz-Sutter-Dupuis
Cooke-Jeffrey-Kennedy


Last edited by GermanTitov: 08-16-2012 at 08:39 AM.
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Old
08-16-2012, 08:36 AM
  #110
Le Magnifique 66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
if we had someone else I would agree with you. I just really hope TK doesn't become that someone else.
I have a feeling TK is the one that will be bumped up to the top 2 lines

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08-16-2012, 09:53 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
Tangradi getting top line minutes and Jeffrey fighting for top 12? Don't understand Kennedy's relegation to 3rd line specialist either (relative to our current lineup). A 3rd line Kennedy will outscore a 1st line Tangradi.
I look at it this way. Tangradi with Sid and TK on the third line will give us more total offense than TK with Sid and Tangradi on the third line. TK is better at creating his own offense but he is just a terrible fit with either of our top centers.

I still think you are underrating what Tangradi can become. Full season with Sid or Geno and I predict he'd finish around 40 points this year.

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08-16-2012, 10:13 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I look at it this way. Tangradi with Sid and TK on the third line will give us more total offense than TK with Sid and Tangradi on the third line. TK is better at creating his own offense but he is just a terrible fit with either of our top centers.

I still think you are underrating what Tangradi can become. Full season with Sid or Geno and I predict he'd finish around 40 points this year.
If anyone plays a full season with Sid/Geno and has only 40 points to show for it they should be scratched for the playoffs.

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08-16-2012, 10:15 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by GermanTitov View Post
Malking-Crosby-Neal
Kunitz-Sutter-Dupuis
Cooke-Jeffrey-Kennedy
No. Just no. Malkin is a center, not a winger. The occasional shift is one thing, but as a line ... no.

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Old
08-16-2012, 10:19 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
If anyone plays a full season with Sid/Geno and has only 40 points to show for it they should be scratched for the playoffs.
Well I doubt he gets much powerplay time. Kunitz had 43 even strength points last year. All-Star winger James Neal had 51. 35 ES points would put him in the company of Dustin Brown and Shane Doan.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 08-16-2012 at 10:24 AM.
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Old
08-16-2012, 12:37 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Well I doubt he gets much powerplay time. Kunitz had 43 even strength points last year. All-Star winger James Neal had 51. 35 ES points would put him in the company of Dustin Brown and Shane Doan.
Since you brought up the number of points he may score, I assumed you meant total points. If Tangradi is playing on either of the top 2 lines it would be hard to imagine a scenario in which he wasn't on the 2nd PP unit. Whether he can produce on that unit remains to be seen. 40 ES points?!? Good luck to him. I don't think Brown or Doan are good comparables since they never played with Crosby/Malkin.

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Old
08-16-2012, 12:41 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
Since you brought up the number of points he may score, I assumed you meant total points. If Tangradi is playing on either of the top 2 lines it would be hard to imagine a scenario in which he wasn't on the 2nd PP unit. Whether he can produce on that unit remains to be seen. 40 ES points?!? Good luck to him. I don't think Brown or Doan are good comparables since they never played with Crosby/Malkin.
I think around 40 total is about right. He will probably be on the 2nd unit. The 2nd unit barely plays. I'd say somewhere around 30-35 ES points and 5-10 PP points is a pretty reasonable prediction for him. Put TK in the same situation and I would expect similar. Probably a few more goals and a few less assists.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 08-16-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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08-16-2012, 12:47 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I think around 40 total is about right. He will probably be on the 2nd unit. The 2nd unit barely plays. I'd say somewhere around 30-35 ES points and 5-10 PP points is a pretty reasonable prediction for him. Put TK in the same situation and I would expect similar. Probably a few more goals and a few less assists. Around 5 PP points on the 2nd unit. TK could probably peak around 45 points with Sid.
And I'll repeat what I said earlier in that scoring 40 total points while playing a full season with Crosby/Malkin is totally unacceptable.

Kennedy already had a 45 point season without Crosby/Malkin. How could 45 points be his peak?

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08-16-2012, 12:48 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
And I'll repeat what I said earlier in that scoring 40 total points while playing a full season with Crosby/Malkin is totally unacceptable.
because of a lack of powerplay points? What do you think TK could put up with Sid? Keeping in mind he wouldn't be on the first powerplay either.

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08-16-2012, 12:52 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
And I'll repeat what I said earlier in that scoring 40 total points while playing a full season with Crosby/Malkin is totally unacceptable.

Kennedy already had a 45 point season without Crosby/Malkin. How could 45 points be his peak?
because his points inflated mostly due to his powerplay time. Which he won't be getting even if he's Sid's wing. He had 14 powerplay points when he hit 45 points. His next highest was 4 in 2008.

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08-16-2012, 01:00 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
because his points inflated mostly due to his powerplay time. Which he won't be getting even if he's Sid's wing. He had 14 powerplay points when he hit 45 points. His next highest was 4 in 2008.
Well, you just have an answer for everything now don't ya

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Old
08-16-2012, 01:00 PM
  #121
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
Well, you just have an answer for everything now don't ya
only the obvious ones

I've said it a few times now. Short term I'm sure TK is the better option there. In the first half of the season, I bet he'd outscore Tangradi by a fair margin. But Tangradi has the chance to actually improve into a legitimate top 6 option. TK is never going to do that. He doesn't have the skill to make up for his lack of size. Tangradi might never become a good top 6 guy either, but as long as the chance is there I think we should see what we can get out of him. If we put TK in that spot in February because Tangradi just isn't cutting it, I think he'll be just as good then as he would be if he played in that spot all season.

At the same time, TK is a better fit on our 3rd line. He can create his own offense better than Tangradi. He's a faster skater. And he has years of experience playing on a defensive NHL line. Tangradi would probably just be a bad fit on that third line. I think Jeffrey would be better there than Tangradi actually.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 08-16-2012 at 01:10 PM.
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08-16-2012, 01:13 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
only the obvious ones

I've said it a few times now. Short term I'm sure TK is the better option there. In the first half of the season, I bet he'd outscore Tangradi by a fair margin. But Tangradi has the chance to actually improve into a legitimate top 6 option. TK is never going to do that. He doesn't have the skill to make up for his lack of size. Tangradi might never become a good top 6 guy either, but as long as the chance is there I think we should see what we can get out of him. If we put TK in that spot in February because Tangradi just isn't cutting it, I think he'll be just as good then as he would be if he played in that spot all season.

At the same time, TK is a better fit on our 3rd line. He can create his own offense better than Tangradi. He's a faster skater. And he has years of experience playing on a defensive NHL line.
Regarding TK, I could very easily see myself agreeing with your assessment of his ceiling. I'm trying to remain optimistic though, driven in part by me fear of ET, that Kennedy has a little more in the tank that Crosby/Malkin could bring out. I'm not even really a TK fan, but I'm trying to accept the fact that he is one of the top 6 wingers for next season and making the best of a potentially bleak situation.

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Old
08-16-2012, 01:20 PM
  #123
Ogrezilla
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I have more fear of TK up their than Tangradi. I'd rather put Kunitz with Sid and Dupuis and put Cooke with Malkin and Neal. I really don't like TK in the top 6. His game just clashes with Sid and Malkin.

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08-16-2012, 04:54 PM
  #124
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Funny how having one more top 6 forward would make the entire lineup come together much more easily. Gotta work with the hand you're dealt I guess.

Tangradi - Malkin - Neal
Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Cooke - Sutter - Kennedy
Glass - Vitale - Adams

That first line LW spot is literally wide open in my opinion. I'd also like to see Jeffrey find a spot in the lineup somewhere.

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Old
08-18-2012, 05:00 PM
  #125
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I'd like to see something like
Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis/Cooke (limiting both top line mins)
Tangradi-Malkin-Neal (assuming Tangradi proves it in camp)
Dupuis/Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Jeffery

Letang-Martin (PLEASE BOUNCE BACK)
Orpik-Despres
Niskanen-Engellend (I really like this combo)

Fleury (50-60 games)
Vokoun (20-30 games)

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