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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Ryan O'Reilly

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Old
08-10-2012, 09:31 AM
  #101
Nihiliste
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This is silly, it would take a truly retarded offer sheet to get RoR out of denver.

As for why he remains unsigned, recall that the Avs often have left RFAs unsigned going into september. They don't really tend to be in a hurry.

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08-10-2012, 09:53 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by DavidBL View Post
RoR won't be traded now not because he is worth so much, but because he is worth so little. Colorado won't be able to get a good return for him because he is relatively unproven. As such he is worth more to the team on it rather than a trade piece. If he does get moved it is likely because Colorado feels his Salary demands don't fit the pay structure for the teams future. As a rebuilding team, it could make sense to move him for a player that better fits a 3rd line center role while also adding Prospects/picks to make depth stronger. Wasn't Colorado ranked like 24th in the league in prospect quality recently by ESPN? Honestly though I think all of this spells the end of Stastny's time in Colorado rather than RoR's. It would be easier to maximize Stastny's value over the other two while continuing to build for the future as well as stabilizing the top 6 center position.
Best paragraph in the entire thread.

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08-10-2012, 05:50 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
@ seanlinden: you might stop posting or you just embarass yourself even further.

You are saying that the Avs should take a horrible Leafs offer which would add more salary than a matched ROR-offersheet because they are presumably a budget team which could not afford to match a high Leafs offersheet and that essentialy cap dump+ depth winger + spare dman + 1st is better than the offersheet compensation.

Yeah sure.....
Avs would match in an instant. And even if not they would accept the offer sheet compensation. Either way they would probably offersheet any half decent Leafs RFA from now until Burke is fired....

I mean Burke almost got into a fight over one of his players getting offersheeted. I know that it had to to with him getting blindsided but there is just no way that he would offersheet ROR. Especially when he has probably an eye on Stastny.

Another sticking point would be that ROR does not seem like the guy who would screw the Avs over. He will wear atleast an A soon and he has great chemistry with the guys. I don't see him wanting to leave.

So you should better go back to proposing ridiculous Stastny to TOR proposals again. At least you could always reason that his father wants Paul out and that he has such a burden of a contract and that the Avs can't wait to get rid of his big salary....
I'm simply saying that the Leafs offer is better than the offer sheet compensation, and in a market that is cash liquid like today's, a player like O'Reilly's trade value is going to be close to his offer sheet compensation.

I'm not also not saying that the Leafs will be the team to offer sheet O'Reilly, but it's ludicrous to think that he doesn't have at least some offers on the table. There's 29 teams in this league that didn't have RoR last year. Probably over 1/2 right now could easily accommodate him at $4m+, some at $5m. There's a ton of money to be spent, and not a lot of players to spend it on.

It's not about screwing the Avs over, it's about doing what's best for him. Either the Avs pay him his fair market value in a highly liquid market like this one, or he signs an offer sheet. Those are the only 2 options that make sense for him.

As for the Avs matching... I don't think I've seen a single Avs fan post that they'd be willing to match a $5m short term offer sheet on O'Reilly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
They should've signed Leino and a bunch of other mediocre players just to show they're willing to spend without thinking about what future brings in terms of contract extensions to their young players, possible cap reduction in the new CBA etc. Terrific logic.



If you think that Avs will let him go for a 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder there's no helping you, it would take a trully insane offer sheet to pry Radar out of Denver.
So he's worth $5m to you?

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08-10-2012, 05:53 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I'm simply saying that the Leafs offer is better than the offer sheet compensation, and in a market that is cash liquid like today's, a player like O'Reilly's trade value is going to be close to his offer sheet compensation.

I'm not also not saying that the Leafs will be the team to offer sheet O'Reilly, but it's ludicrous to think that he doesn't have at least some offers on the table. It's not about screwing the Avs over, it's about doing what's best for him. Either the Avs pay him his fair market value in a highly liquid market like this one, or he signs an offer sheet. Those are the only 2 options that make sense for him.

As for the Avs matching... I don't think I've seen a single Avs fan post that they'd be willing to match a $5m short term offer sheet on O'Reilly.



So he's worth $5m to you?
Avs will match a 15mil 3year offer without a doubt, that's pretty obvious to anyone who bothers to think about it for more than a couple of seconds.

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08-10-2012, 05:54 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
As for the Avs matching... I don't think I've seen a single Avs fan post that they'd be willing to match a $5m short term offer sheet on O'Reilly.
Easy match. Duchene and Stastny are more expendable than O'Reilly. Make it a long-term deal over 10 years, that'd work out better in the long run.

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Old
08-10-2012, 06:05 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Avs will match a 15mil 3year offer without a doubt, that's pretty obvious to anyone who bothers to think about it for more than a couple of seconds.
What about 2 years at $5.5m?

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08-10-2012, 06:06 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I'm simply saying that the Leafs offer is better than the offer sheet compensation, and in a market that is cash liquid like today's, a player like O'Reilly's trade value is going to be close to his offer sheet compensation.

I'm not also not saying that the Leafs will be the team to offer sheet O'Reilly, but it's ludicrous to think that he doesn't have at least some offers on the table. There's 29 teams in this league that didn't have RoR last year. Probably over 1/2 right now could easily accommodate him at $4m+, some at $5m. There's a ton of money to be spent, and not a lot of players to spend it on.

It's not about screwing the Avs over, it's about doing what's best for him. Either the Avs pay him his fair market value in a highly liquid market like this one, or he signs an offer sheet. Those are the only 2 options that make sense for him.

As for the Avs matching... I don't think I've seen a single Avs fan post that they'd be willing to match a $5m short term offer sheet on O'Reilly.



So he's worth $5m to you?
He is not really worth 5 M right now. We still would not let him go for the offersheet compensation.... He is an integral part of our team. If he gets offersheeted we will hold a grudge against the offersheeting team and maybe down the line he could get traded for full value if management can not get over him signing an offersheet (they did with Sakic...).

You are spinning it the way you want in order to justify your horrible trade proposals. I guess you would not find more than one Avs fan who would be happy letting ROR leave for the offer sheet compensation. Everyone will call for Sherman's and Lacroix's head if they would not match an offersheet. Especially if its under 5.5M and a short contract. If you want to offer 6.5 M over 10 years it gets interesting. Otherwise we will match and hopefully offersheet any decent RFA that team has....

And your trade to me is even worse than the offer sheet compensation of a 1st 2nd and 3rd or even a 1st and 3rd.
It adds salary and the only piece of value for us would be Franson which I value at a 3rd. So all in all we will not let ROR get away and your proposal is beyond horrible.

Edit: 2yrs at 5.5 M is an easy match. And if you add in Franson re-signing we have ROR at less money on our roster than it would cost us accepting your horrible proposal...

And no to Hodgson + 2nd

ROR is younger and better than Hodgson....

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Old
08-10-2012, 06:07 PM
  #108
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Hodgson + 2nd

for

ROR

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Old
08-10-2012, 06:10 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
What about 2 years at $5.5m?
You don't get it do you? Why would Colorado allow O'Reilly to walk away for that when:

a) it doesn't hurt the Avs in the long run cap wise

b) O'Reilly is worth much more than 1st and a 3rd round pick


The only way Avs let Radar walk is if someone offers him a 50mil 10 year deal and no one is dumb enough to offer him that.

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Old
08-10-2012, 06:10 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
He is not really worth 5 M right now. We still would not let him go for the offersheet compensation.... He is an integral part of our team. If he gets offersheeted we will hold a grudge against the offersheeting team and maybe down the line he could get traded for full value if management can not get over him signing an offersheet (they did with Sakic...).

You are spinning it the way you want in order to justify your horrible trade proposals. I guess you would not find more than one Avs fan who would be happy letting ROR leave for the offer sheet compensation. Everyone will call for Sherman and Lacroix head if they would not match an offersheet. Especially if its under 5.5M and a short contract. If you want to offer 6.5 M over 10 years it gets interesting. Otherwise we will match and hopefully offersheet any decent RFA that team has....

And your trade to me is even worse than the offer sheet compensation of a 1st 2nd and 3rd or even a 1st and 3rd.
It adds salary and the only piece of value for us would be Franson which I value at a 3rd. So all in all we will not let ROR get away and your proposal is beyond horrible.

Edit: 2yrs at 5.5 M is an easy match. And if you add in Franson re-signing we have ROR at less money on our roster than it would cost us accepting your horrible proposal...
If you wouldn't let him go for the offer sheet compensation, then by definition he is worth that money to you... so where's the breaking point on a 2 year deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
You don't get it do you? Why would Colorado allow O'Reilly to walk away for that when:

a) it doesn't hurt the Avs in the long run cap wise

b) O'Reilly is worth much more than 1st and a 3rd round pick


The only way Avs let Radar walk is if someone offers him a 50mil 10 year deal and no one is dumb enough to offer him that.
Because Colorado, like a significant chunk of the teams in this league, have a budget. O'Reilly fits in at one point and not at another, I'm simply trying to find out what that breaking point is.

A long term deal would be exactly what the Avs should want. A short term deal is much less desirable because they have to go back to the negotiating table with a $5m+ qualifying offer and set that example for guys like Duchene.

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Old
08-10-2012, 06:12 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Hodgson + 2nd

for

ROR
Don't want Hodgson at all.

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08-10-2012, 06:13 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
If you wouldn't let him go for the offer sheet compensation, then by definition he is worth that money to you... so where's the breaking point on a 2 year deal?
He is probably not worth 5m....but he is certainly worth more than the compensation 5m would get us. Don't see how you do not get that. Anyways, Avs have cap, and a 2 year deal would not screw us long term. I think we would match anything that a sane GM would offer.

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08-10-2012, 06:13 PM
  #113
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Uh... no-one's going to offersheet O'Reilly. Any offersheet of reasonable value would be matched, and any that wouldn't be matched by us wouldn't be made in the first place.

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08-10-2012, 06:14 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Hodgson + 2nd

for

ROR
Hodgson? Huge no thanks. Don't want him at all TBH. Especially not for O'Reilly.

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08-10-2012, 06:14 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Because Colorado, like a significant chunk of the teams in this league, have a budget. O'Reilly fits in at one point and not at another, I'm simply trying to find out what that breaking point is.
I guess you know more about Avs budget than Josh Kroenke.

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08-10-2012, 06:14 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Because Colorado, like a significant chunk of the teams in this league, have a budget. O'Reilly fits in at one point and not at another, I'm simply trying to find out what that breaking point is.
It's significantly below the combined salary for Connelly and MacArthur or above what Burke would be willing to offer sheet him for, collapsing your entire awkward hypothetical scenario.

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08-10-2012, 06:14 PM
  #117
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Don't want Hodgson at all.
Why not?

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08-10-2012, 06:15 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
It's significantly below the combined salary for Connelly and MacArthur or what Burke would be willing to offer sheet him for, collapsing your entire awkward hypothetical scenario.
Good point.

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08-10-2012, 06:16 PM
  #119
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Why not?
Did you miss his hissy fits in Vancouver?

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08-10-2012, 06:17 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by The Shermanator View Post
O'Reilly and Reilly can't be on the same team. What a nightmare for commentators.
O'Reilly passes to.. oh Reilly! how'd he lose the puck like that? Oh Reilly...



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08-10-2012, 06:25 PM
  #121
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
It's significantly below the combined salary for Connelly and MacArthur or above what Burke would be willing to offer sheet him for, collapsing your entire awkward hypothetical scenario.
Ok so we're getting somewhere... Connolly and MacArthur's combined salary is $7.25m.... it's significantly below that...

Is it in the 6s or the 5s on a 2 year deal? Or more specifically, is it above or below the $6.26m threshold? What is the point at which the Avs say "We're not paying RoR X.X million on a 2 year deal".


Last edited by seanlinden: 08-10-2012 at 06:31 PM.
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08-10-2012, 06:32 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Ok so we're getting somewhere... Connolly and MacArthur's combined salary is $7.25m.... it's significantly below that...

Is it in the 6s or the 5s on a 2 year deal? Or more specifically, is it above or below the $6.26m threshold?
It is above. But I would expect ROR to be traded soon because he tried to screw the Avs over.

There is no way they would let him go on a short term contract for small offer sheet compensation or for a lousy trade offer. They could not sell that to the fan base. No way.

At least you realize how bad your trade offer was...

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08-10-2012, 06:37 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
It is above. But I would expect ROR to be traded soon because he tried to screw the Avs over.

There is no way they would let him go on a short term contract for small offer sheet compensation or for a lousy trade offer. They could not sell that to the fan base. No way.

At least you realize how bad your trade offer was...
What is this about screwing the Avs over?? These aren't children. O'Reilly's gotta look out for his own good, put the foot on the other shoe and consider how by your definition, the Avs are screwing him over by giving him any less than $6.26m.

So it's above, we've now established what it would require to trade him in your opinion -- 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd.

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08-10-2012, 06:37 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Ok so we're getting somewhere... Connolly and MacArthur's combined salary is $7.25m.... it's significantly below that...

Is it in the 6s or the 5s on a 2 year deal? Or more specifically, is it above or below the $6.26m threshold?
You're not getting "somewhere" since your basic hypothetical example is ridiculous. Burke or anyone else isn't going to offer sheet O'Reilly to a contract Avs won't match.

But to entertain you, if Toronto offered sheeted O'Reilly to a deal with $6.3M year cap hit and compensation of two firsts, a second and a third Avs might decide not to match. Who knows. But Burke won't offer a contract like that and Avs will sign O'Reilly for a contract with much lower cap hit soon, so it's not all that interesting as a thought experiment.

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08-10-2012, 06:38 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
You're not getting "somewhere" since your basic hypothetical example is ridiculous. Burke or anyone else isn't going to offer sheet O'Reilly to a contract Avs won't match.

But to entertain you, if Toronto offered sheeted O'Reilly to a deal with $6.3M year cap hit and compensation of two firsts, a second and a third Avs might decide not to match. Who knows. But Burke won't offer a contract like that and Avs will sign O'Reilly for a contract with much lower cap hit soon, so it's not all that interesting as a thought experiment.
Actually we have -- we've found that the Avs would be willing to part with O'Reilly for that price -- so that by definition is his approximate trade value to the Avs.

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