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The 2012 Canada-Russia Challenge

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Old
08-18-2012, 01:22 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Which you already admitted you are incorrect by naming only 3 players out of 22 that in your opinion are not better than Grabo, despite all 3 having better stats, your claim that Grabo was better. Look at the bolded part of your comment. Better than Getzlaf? No one a sane head on this board would say Grabo would heve led Anaheim in scoring in the playoffs when they won the cup or is better than Getzlaf. Nevermind say Grabo has more intangbles than Ryan. Debunk #1.
4 players that he is better than. 3 players he is equal to. No, not all have better stats. And that is discussing #1 and #2 centers. That means he is better than or equal to multiple centers on Stanley Cup finalists, exactly as I said.

And actually the statement that you made is that we can't be a cup-contender with him. Multiple other cup-contenders have not made the finals yet, so there are even more to add to that list.

As for your Getzlaf comment, no, nobody would say he is better than Getzlaf now. He is not better than Getzlaf now. But Getzlaf was not better in his first year.

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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I don't even know what you are talking about, you asked for stats, I produced them. Changing goalposts by now saying it isn't an exact science, blah, blah, blah..Very clear you lost this point, even for Horcoff and Stoll who both have more intangles and points than Grabo ever has. Debunk #2
You did not provide stats. You provided points (that weren't even all right) that don't even prove your point. Grabovski beats many of them in the year they won the cup.

Also, wasn't it you who said points don't tell the whole story?

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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Every? We know this was debunked in my post. Debunk #3
No, it wasn't. Your statistical evidence (points) did not even prove your point. Not to mention you ignored every piece of statistical evidence except one.

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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
All of 3 you named out of 22 names in which I provided, in your opinion, not fact as you stated and not statistically as you wrongly claimed.
7. And of course it wasn't fact. You can't ask an opinion question and then get mad when they give you an opinion. And actually, some of the research that makes it more factual was already done on previous pages, which you also ignored because it didn't fit your faulty agenda.

If anybody is hitting the mat, it's you. Face first.

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08-18-2012, 01:27 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by agreen23 View Post
Pot calling the kettle black?
He asks an opinion question, he gets an opinion answer. And unlike him, facts were brought up much earlier in this thread now that he ignored, which support this statement.

They all bring similar points, similar intangibles, similar defence, similar styles of play. The only difference is that Zajac and Krejci have got better quality line-mates and more minutes.

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08-18-2012, 02:21 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
He asks an opinion question, he gets an opinion answer. And unlike him, facts were brought up much earlier in this thread now that he ignored, which support this statement.

They all bring similar points, similar intangibles, similar defence, similar styles of play. The only difference is that Zajac and Krejci have got better quality line-mates and more minutes.
First off I dont get why you arguing over their "first year." Grabo is 28, he is not a rookie. And if you'd really like to go down that road: Grabo's first full year (25 years old) he received 16:13 min and scored 48 points. Krejci's first full year (22 years old) he received 16:52 min and scored 73 points...

While Grabo is 2 years older both he and Krejci have had 4 full seasons in the NHL. Grabo has had zero 60+ point seasons while Krejci has reached that mark 3/4 seasons including a 70 point season.

Krejci's career year came when playing less than 17 minutes a night. Grabo's career year came playing 19:22 minutes a night which is about 30 seconds more than Krejci has ever averaged in a season.

In Grabo's career year (2010-11) he got more ice time yet Krejci still outscored him. Over their enitire careers, Krejci has averaged only 20 more seconds of ice time.

According to you, Looch is just a "third line grinder with stone hands" so he is not exactly playing with more talent.

Has Grabo ever been top 6 in Selke voting? Nope. Has he ever lead his team or the entire playoffs in points? No. Krejci has the rare ability to rise to the occasion. Think it is a coincidence Krejci gets hurt in game 4 against the Flyers and we blow a 3-0 lead in the series?

They do not bring similar points, defense nor intangibles.

Is this enough factual information for you?

Being better than Zajac is much more debatable but I do not care enough to argue that point as well.

This does not mean Grabo is a bad player. I actually think he is your second most important forward behind Kessel. Good 2 way game and he plays in all situations. I just dont see how you can conclude that hes better than Krejci.


Last edited by agreen23: 08-18-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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Old
08-18-2012, 02:55 PM
  #879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agreen23 View Post
First off I dont get why you arguing over their "first year." Grabo is 28, he is not a rookie. And if you'd really like to go down that road: Grabo's first full year (25 years old) he received 16:13 min and scored 48 points. Krejci's first full year (22 years old) he received 16:52 min and scored 73 points...

While Grabo is 2 years older both he and Krejci have had 4 full seasons in the NHL. Grabo has had zero 60+ point seasons while Krejci has reached that mark 3/4 seasons including a 70 point season.

Krejci's career year came when playing less than 17 minutes a night. Grabo's career year came playing 19:22 minutes a night which is about 30 seconds more than Krejci has ever averaged in a season.

In Grabo's career year (2010-11) he got more ice time yet Krejci still outscored him. Over their enitire careers, Krejci has averaged only 20 more seconds of ice time.

According to you, Looch is just a "third line grinder with stone hands" so he is not exactly playing with more talent.

Has Grabo ever been top 6 in Selke voting? Nope. Has he ever lead his team or the entire playoffs in points? No. Krejci has the rare ability to rise to the occasion. Think it is a coincidence Krejci gets hurt in game 4 against the Flyers and we blow a 3-0 lead in the series?

They do not bring similar points, defense nor intangibles.

Is this enough factual information for you?

Being better than Zajac is much more debatable but I do not care enough to argue that point as well.

This does not mean Grabo is a bad player. I actually think he is your second most important forward behind Kessel. Good 2 way game and he plays in all situations. I just dont see how you can conclude that hes better than Krejci.
Thanks for saving me the time in responding, I'm not sure what he is arguing and I don't care. The goal posts change daily. IE. 1st year stats which wasn't even part of my original response.

Whydidijoin has tapped the mat.

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Old
08-18-2012, 02:59 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by agreen23 View Post
First off I dont get why you arguing over their "first year."
The only one for which I am discussing first year is Getzlaf, because the discussion was on centers on cup-finalists, and Anaheim was a cup-finalist the year that Getzlaf was in his first year.

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Originally Posted by agreen23 View Post
While Grabo is 2 years older both he and Krejci have had 4 full seasons in the NHL. Grabo has had zero 60+ point seasons while Krejci has reached that mark 3/4 seasons including a 70 point season.

Krejci's career year came when playing less than 17 minutes a night. Grabo's career year came playing 19:22 minutes a night which is about 30 seconds more than Krejci has ever averaged in a season.

In Grabo's career year (2010-11) he got more ice time yet Krejci still outscored him. Over their enitire careers, Krejci has averaged only 20 more seconds of ice time.
Nice twisting of stats, using 60 points as the cutoff, which Grabovski places just below and Krejci places just above.

Also ignoring that Krejci put up those numbers on a significantly better team with better line-mates in more offensive situations. Grabovski, even in his big year, was playing in shutdown situations.

Interactif was the one who said that you cant use points to determine who is the better player, and then used points to try and determine who was the better player.

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Originally Posted by agreen23 View Post
According to you, Looch is just a "third line grinder with stone hands" so he is not exactly playing with more talent.
Where did I say that? I have said that he is one of the dirtiest players in the league and I wouldn't want him on my team, but I don't ever remember saying he has stone hands.

And yes, he has been playing with more talent. And for every season except 2 seasons ago, embarrassingly so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agreen23 View Post
Has Grabo ever been top 6 in Selke voting? Nope. Has he ever lead his team or the entire playoffs in points? No. Krejci has the rare ability to rise to the occasion. Think it is a coincidence Krejci gets hurt in game 4 against the Flyers and we blow a 3-0 lead in the series?
Top-6 in Selke? Lol. That is not even close to a finalist. That can come from one Bruins fan voting for him. You obviously don't know how quickly the points drop off.

And has Grabovski ever been on a defensive team with a legitimate Selke candidate on the team? No.

Has Grabovski ever got a chance to show what he can do in the playoffs? No. Being alright in one season does not mean that he has a so-called rare ability to step his game up in big moments.

And Krejci is not the reason Boston blew a 3-0 series lead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agreen23 View Post
This does not mean Grabo is a bad player. I actually think he is your second most important forward behind Kessel. Good 2 way game and he plays in all situations. I just dont see how you can conclude that hes better than Krejci.
I said equal. Not better.

Even if Krejci is better, it is not by a significant amount. Not nearly enough to mean that Krejci as the number 1 center on a cup-winner, means that Grabovski cannot be a number 2 center on a cup-contender. Which is the entire discussion in progress.

I am not sure why you are arguing with me, when you essentially just agreed with the very same thing I am arguing.

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Old
08-18-2012, 03:10 PM
  #881
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This stupid hi-jacked thread is still open?

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Old
08-18-2012, 03:20 PM
  #882
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I don't know how one can claim Grabo is in the same class as Krejci and Getzlaf even with the new goal post argument of first year disclaimer.

Yoi don't have to be a GM to know no Hockey person would trade either straight up for Grabo when Grabo has never even played in 1 playoff game and the other 2 are proven #1C's, key contributers to a Stanley Cup winning team, both amongt the club leaders in Playoff scoring.
Quite a leap of logic.

Seems to me one argument(whydidijoin)is based on ifs and buts while the other is fact. Just Tap the mat plesse! Enough already, Grabo is a ok Center on this team but that's it he is not a Top 6 C for a cup contender based on what he has done in his career thus far.


Last edited by Interactif: 08-18-2012 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Add and Typed on BB
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Old
08-18-2012, 04:20 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by stish View Post
This stupid hi-jacked thread is still open?
A poster and I had a good discussion about Button this morning, this thread is still useful, I was done with Grabo until a poster decided he didn't want to let it go.

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Old
08-18-2012, 04:51 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
The only one for which I am discussing first year is Getzlaf, because the discussion was on centers on cup-finalists, and Anaheim was a cup-finalist the year that Getzlaf was in his first year.


Nice twisting of stats, using 60 points as the cutoff, which Grabovski places just below and Krejci places just above.

Also ignoring that Krejci put up those numbers on a significantly better team with better line-mates in more offensive situations. Grabovski, even in his big year, was playing in shutdown situations.

Interactif was the one who said that you cant use points to determine who is the better player, and then used points to try and determine who was the better player.


Where did I say that? I have said that he is one of the dirtiest players in the league and I wouldn't want him on my team, but I don't ever remember saying he has stone hands.

And yes, he has been playing with more talent. And for every season except 2 seasons ago, embarrassingly so.


Top-6 in Selke? Lol. That is not even close to a finalist. That can come from one Bruins fan voting for him. You obviously don't know how quickly the points drop off.

And has Grabovski ever been on a defensive team with a legitimate Selke candidate on the team? No.

Has Grabovski ever got a chance to show what he can do in the playoffs? No. Being alright in one season does not mean that he has a so-called rare ability to step his game up in big moments.

And Krejci is not the reason Boston blew a 3-0 series lead.


I said equal. Not better.

Even if Krejci is better, it is not by a significant amount. Not nearly enough to mean that Krejci as the number 1 center on a cup-winner, means that Grabovski cannot be a number 2 center on a cup-contender. Which is the entire discussion in progress.

I am not sure why you are arguing with me, when you essentially just agreed with the very same thing I am arguing.
I love how the defensive side of the game gets totally ignored in this debate where Krejci is definitively better then Grabovski.

You wouldnt want Lucic on your team? Give me a effing break. I would take this guy on my team anyday because he makes us a MUCH tougher team to play against and gives this team some backbone up front and hes not even that dirty. I'm guessing by this statement you're also not much a fan of Tyler Biggs because they essentially play a similar type game?

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