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Devils sign Bobby Butler

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Old
08-10-2012, 11:32 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missionhockey View Post
7 pages about a depth waiver wire signing. Must be the off season.
harrold got more last year, carter also got more. maybe there's something to this. guys let's get it to 25 and he'll win the richard.

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08-10-2012, 11:42 AM
  #177
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His brother jacked me up one time when I played Marlboro. Like the signing though worst case he's in the AHL tearing it up, god knows we need goal scoring down there

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Old
08-10-2012, 11:45 AM
  #178
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Cant complain about this. Low risk and could benefit us alot if he can turn his **** around. Hopefully he comes prepared for camp and ready to compete for his spot.

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Old
08-10-2012, 11:49 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missionhockey View Post
7 pages about a depth waiver wire signing. Must be the off season.
Nope, just a typical day on HF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
Yeah but this guy is most likely going to get a real opportunity to compete for a spot.

I like that....I like the fact that someone isn't just going to get a spot out of necessity.

Any layers of competition you can add is definitely a good thing and worthy of discussion IMO
Couldn`t agree more.

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08-10-2012, 12:05 PM
  #180
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It is kind of weird people are talking about his defensively inability when he was one the best players on the Sens +/- last season. Maybe the Sens fans are referring to his first season? But that wouldn’t be very fair to a rookie? Figuring out the D game in your first NHL season isn't the easiest thing to do...I would cut him slack their or at least point to the significant improvement from 1st year to second year.

GP +/-
Filip Kuba 73 26
Daniel Alfredsson 75 16
Erik Karlsson 81 16
Chris Phillips 80 12
Kyle Turris 49 12
Erik Condra 81 11
Jason Spezza 80 11
Bobby Butler 56 8
Jim O'Brien 28 6
Zack Smith 81 4
Milan Michalek 77 4
Peter Regin 10 3
Jesse Winchester 32 2
Nick Foligno 82 2
Nikita Filatov 9 1
Ben Bishop 10 0
Robin Lehner 5 0
Matt Gilroy 14 0
Matt Carkner 29 0
Alex Auld 14 0
Craig Anderson 63 0
Rob Klinkhammer 15 0
Andre Petersson 1 0
Mike Hoffman 1 -1
Mark Borowiecki 2 -1
Brian Lee 35 -2
Kaspars Daugavins 65 -2
Mika Zibanejad 9 -3
Sergei Gonchar 74 -4
Jared Cowen 82 -4
Colin Greening 82 -4
Zenon Konopka 55 -4
Stephane Da Costa22 -9
Chris Neil 72 -10
David Rundblad 24 -11

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:08 PM
  #181
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Butler
Career Totals 94 16 21 37 -9


Tedenby
Career Totals 101 9 19 28 -12

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:25 PM
  #182
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I can't quote Jim because he is blocked (done for me lol) but I completely agree (for once)

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:33 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
Butler
Career Totals 94 16 21 37 -9


Tedenby
Career Totals 101 9 19 28 -12
Boom.

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:34 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
Butler
Career Totals 94 16 21 37 -9


Tedenby
Career Totals 101 9 19 28 -12
you are correct.

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Old
08-10-2012, 12:36 PM
  #185
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Old
08-10-2012, 01:05 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
It is kind of weird people are talking about his defensively inability when he was one the best players on the Sens +/- last season. Maybe the Sens fans are referring to his first season? But that wouldn’t be very fair to a rookie? Figuring out the D game in your first NHL season isn't the easiest thing to do...I would cut him slack their or at least point to the significant improvement from 1st year to second year.

GP +/-
Filip Kuba 73 26
Daniel Alfredsson 75 16
Erik Karlsson 81 16
Chris Phillips 80 12
Kyle Turris 49 12
Erik Condra 81 11
Jason Spezza 80 11
Bobby Butler 56 8
Jim O'Brien 28 6
Zack Smith 81 4
Milan Michalek 77 4
Peter Regin 10 3
Jesse Winchester 32 2
Nick Foligno 82 2
Nikita Filatov 9 1
Ben Bishop 10 0
Robin Lehner 5 0
Matt Gilroy 14 0
Matt Carkner 29 0
Alex Auld 14 0
Craig Anderson 63 0
Rob Klinkhammer 15 0
Andre Petersson 1 0
Mike Hoffman 1 -1
Mark Borowiecki 2 -1
Brian Lee 35 -2
Kaspars Daugavins 65 -2
Mika Zibanejad 9 -3
Sergei Gonchar 74 -4
Jared Cowen 82 -4
Colin Greening 82 -4
Zenon Konopka 55 -4
Stephane Da Costa22 -9
Chris Neil 72 -10
David Rundblad 24 -11
+/- is not a good indicator of defensive ability and is highly susceptible to quality of comp., quality of teammates, and randomness.

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08-10-2012, 01:35 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
+/- is not a good indicator of defensive ability and is highly susceptible to quality of comp., quality of teammates, and randomness.
In relationship to median of the team it is not insignificant. There is a reason why certain players are at the top of their team every single year and others are at the bottom.

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Old
08-10-2012, 01:37 PM
  #188
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And I would have to assume playing on a line with Spezza increased the quality of his competition not the other way around.

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Old
08-10-2012, 01:49 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
In relationship to median of the team it is not insignificant. There is a reason why certain players are at the top of their team every single year and others are at the bottom.
First of all, plus minus is not a defensive statistic. It is a broad measure of aggregate production when a player is on the ice.

Secondly, the median of the team is not at all relevant when players have different roles, different positions, play on different lines, and face different competition.

And that's not even factoring in randomness. Think about it - say that 40 goals are scored for, and 40 goals against at ES when a right winger is on the ice over a full season. A difference of five goals for and five goals against can turn that player from 0 to +10 or -10, a big swing. But 10 goals is only 12.5% of all goals that were scored when the player was on the ice during that season. I'm willing to bet that most players had little to no impact on at least 12.5% of the goals that were scored while they are on the ice over a full season.

Some will say that the GF and GA the player's didn't have an impact on will "even out" over a full season. For most it will. But there are like 700 players in the NHL. So while it might even out for most, a lot of guys will be on the disproportionate end of lucky or unlucky in regards to their +/-.

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Old
08-10-2012, 01:57 PM
  #190
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Old
08-10-2012, 02:06 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Secondly, the median of the team is not at all relevant when players have different roles, different positions, play on different lines, and face different competition.
If this were true your first liners have the quality of competition would frequently be at the bottom or at the very least randomly sprinkled throughout the teams rankings every year...but this is never true a guy like Alfredsson is consistently at the top of his team rankings while a guy like Neil is consistently at the bottom.

Neil is 100 percent going to on the ice for more goal against than Alfredsson is next season or any season you care to look at..that is not even a question. Alfie will have more ice vs better competition and still be on the ice for less goals.... there is nothing random about that.

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Old
08-10-2012, 02:59 PM
  #192
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I'd be really curious to see Neil's qualcomp and zone start % in comparison to Alfie's.

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08-10-2012, 03:19 PM
  #193
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Despite its shortcomings, in certain cases plus/minus can tell us quite a bit about an individual. Comparing plus/minus between teammates can be extremely informative.

In 2007-08, Mike Richards led all Flyers forwards at plus-14. In stark contrast, fellow center Danny Briere was a brutal minus-22. When there is that large of a discrepancy between two players, especially on a good team (the Flyers finished sixth that season), you can say something about the relative abilities of each player. Considering Richards scored 75 points and Briere scored 72 that season, the difference was likely defensive.
I like this article...

http://thegoodpoint.com/2012/03/nhl-...nus-statistic/

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Old
08-10-2012, 03:24 PM
  #194
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For those wondering Butler's Qualcomp in 2010-2011 was -.027 and Qualteam was .102.

In 2011-12 his Qualcomp was -.024 and Qualteam was -.004.

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08-10-2012, 04:42 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Richey View Post
For those wondering Butler's Qualcomp in 2010-2011 was -.027 and Qualteam was .102.

In 2011-12 his Qualcomp was -.024 and Qualteam was -.004.
And if I recall from another post or article in this thread, he saw less starts in the offensive zone once he was removed from a line with Spezza, but that's to be expected.

The fact is, we know this kid can play. He looked very good on a line with one of the best playmaking centers in the NHL, and that's also not surprising, but it beats him NOT looking good on Spezza's wing.

So we know he can play and look good with good players. That's a good sign. But we ALSO know he's not going to be allowed to float on the Devils, just like Kovalchuk and Henrique and Tedenby and Josefson had to learn how to play a 200 foot game before they could be trusted. Butler won't be any different.

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Old
08-10-2012, 04:50 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
If this were true your first liners have the quality of competition would frequently be at the bottom or at the very least randomly sprinkled throughout the teams rankings every year...but this is never true a guy like Alfredsson is consistently at the top of his team rankings while a guy like Neil is consistently at the bottom.
Again, you're not recognizing that +/- is not a defensive statistic, it is a measure of overall production. 1st liners who face tough competition might concede more goals when they're on the ice, but they also score more, evening out their +/-.

Quote:
Neil is 100 percent going to on the ice for more goal against than Alfredsson is next season or any season you care to look at..that is not even a question. Alfie will have more ice vs better competition and still be on the ice for less goals.... there is nothing random about that.
The statistic is even strength goals against per 60 minutes of ice time. The lower the better.

Neil (11-12): 2.71
Alfredsson (11-12): 2.29

Neil (10-11): 2.69
Alfredsson (10-11): 3.49

Neil (09-10): 2.35
Alfredsson (09-10): 2.70

Neil (08-09): 2.70
Alfredsson (08-09): 2.88

Haha, care to amend your statement?

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Old
08-10-2012, 04:53 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KovyLove View Post
While I conceed that Richards probably faced tougher competition than Briere, plus minus is inherently random.

Just take a look at 10-11, when Briere was 9 goals better than Richards. Or 09-10 when they had the same plus minus. What happened those years? Is Richards just selectively better than Briere defensively?

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Old
08-10-2012, 06:30 PM
  #198
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Atleast he is a RW. No more LW

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08-10-2012, 06:51 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Haha, care to amend your statement?
I should've checked with behindthenet first.

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Old
08-10-2012, 07:09 PM
  #200
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I think plus minus is THE best stat to look at


at least if you know the players situation

forexample, two players on the same team get the same amount of points, higher plus minus is better

if a player who basically never scores goals is a minus 9, thats pretty impressive


just like in that article

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