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Redwings and Flames in talks about Bouwmeester.

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Old
08-09-2012, 05:58 PM
  #176
Roof Daddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
Mike Peca played against Bouwmeester four or five times during his entire career and was a minus player during those games while Bouwmeester was a plus player. I think what Mike Peca has to say on the subject is as relevant as Mike Peca's broadcast career.
So you are suggesting Peca's assessment was wrong and JBO is tough to play against?

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:00 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
So you are suggesting Peca's assessment was wrong and JBO is tough to play against?
Peca is a moron.

He played 3 games against Bouw and was a -3 with 0 points. Bouw had 4 points and was a +3.

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08-09-2012, 06:01 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
So you are suggesting Peca's assessment was wrong and JBO is tough to play against?
If he has the puck in his own zone, he's impossible to play against. He just has to take two steps and he's LONG gone.

He's soft in front of his own net, which is a big hole, but he has many areas where he's VERY strong, and people arguing that have obviously never watched him play.

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:03 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Um no we are aren't. We are mostly saying we want him for cheap or not at all. Will we get him for cheap? Probably not, in wich case I hope we don't get him at all.
Bingo.

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08-09-2012, 06:03 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
You're wasting your breath. Red Wings fans are under the impression they're going to get Bouwmeester for cheap, let them keep thinking that.
At his current contract, he will be anything but cheap.
On the plus side for Calgary there are not many defencemen at his level on the market. On the negative side JBo carries a hefty salary for a defenceman who does not give you much offence. I don't think Calgary will get a huge return on him but they could get some decent assets.

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08-09-2012, 06:07 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Mikael Backlund View Post
Peca is a moron.

He played 3 games against Bouw and was a -3 with 0 points. Bouw had 4 points and was a +3.
Unless its a coincidence ( very possible ) how bad player then Peca is, when a lazy guy who is easy to play agaisnt, who turns the puck over constantly scores on you 3 times in 3 games

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:10 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Haha. This is such crap. Really, TSN? You actually posted an article based on an Mlive news post? The Mlive article itself was mentioning a supposed Calgary team source that was cited by the blogger who started this rumor.
THIS.

Its a garbage rumour. BUT even if the rumour was true...

Calgary fans think J-bo is overpaid but good. They will want a lot back in return (i.e. 1 of Filppula, Franzen, Nyquist, Smith, Helm)
Detroit fans are not willing to trade anyone good or anyone young, because we are too old ourselves.

2 old teams need every young player they have. Detroit just doesn't have the talent to trade to get him, without including useless garbage pieces. And Feaster won't take garbage for Jaybo, he needs some real return.

This trade would not happen in a million years. If I am feaster, everyone i ask for is a HARD NO from Holland. And for Holland, Jaybo is really not all that valuable! (He is only slightly better than Kyle Quincey)


Calgary also has a full roster, so it won't be a cap dump either.

This is just unadulterated B.S.
Neither team is willing to do this...

Here is how the phone call went.

"Hey Feaster, you want to dump jaybo for garbage picks to get capspace?"

"No, I need a good defenseman back and a forward
...
...
hello?"

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:17 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
last dying grasps of a once great dynasty.

only delaying the inevitable
Which is what, the prospect pool kicking in in full force in a year or two?

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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
I would cream my pants if thats the return.

Can Detroit make the pick for us?
Sure. Tomas McCollum.

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:27 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Which is what, the prospect pool kicking in in full force in a year or two?



Sure. Tomas McCollum.
Man I hated that pick back then and I still want a mulligan on it lol.

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Old
08-09-2012, 06:35 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
So you are suggesting Peca's assessment was wrong and JBO is tough to play against?
I'm suggesting Mike Peca is full of **** and doesn't know anything about Jay Bouwmeester or what he is like to play against. How tough a player is to play against is subjective as well. Some guys hate to play against physical defenders because they don't like to be hit. Some guys like to play against physical guys because they have a propensity to take themselves out of position to make a hit, leaving lots of open ice for following players to fill. Some guys hate to play against guys that are positionally strong and have a fast stick, long reach, quick feet or read the play well because they take away passing lanes and limit how the puck can be moved around them.

What I am saying is that Bouwmeester is a very good defenseman who can be very effective and very frustrating to play against for certain players. Because Mike Peca was a player with very limited skills and got by playing a physical game I would say that Bouwmeester was not the type of defenseman Peca would appreciate and would find very frustrating to play against. Peca couldn't dominate Bouwmeester physically because Bouwmeester rarely puts himself in a position to be physically dominated. Bouwmeester is a positional player who excels at reading the play, using his reach and feet to break up the play and move the puck quickly out of the zone. That's the type of guy Peca would look like a monkey against and exactly why he is on the statistical short end of the stick against Bouwmeester.

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08-09-2012, 06:40 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
I'm suggesting Mike Peca is full of **** and doesn't know anything about Jay Bouwmeester or what he is like to play against. How tough a player is to play against is subjective as well. Some guys hate to play against physical defenders because they don't like to be hit. Some guys like to play against physical guys because they have a propensity to take themselves out of position to make a hit, leaving lots of open ice for following players to fill. Some guys hate to play against guys that are positionally strong and have a fast stick, long reach, quick feet or read the play well because they take away passing lanes and limit how the puck can be moved around them.

What I am saying is that Bouwmeester is a very good defenseman who can be very effective and very frustrating to play against for certain players. Because Mike Peca was a player with very limited skills and got by playing a physical game I would say that Bouwmeester was not the type of defenseman Peca would appreciate and would find very frustrating to play against. Peca couldn't dominate Bouwmeester physically because Bouwmeester rarely puts himself in a position to be physically dominated. Bouwmeester is a positional player who excels at reading the play, using his reach and feet to break up the play and move the puck quickly out of the zone. That's the type of guy Peca would look like a monkey against and exactly why he is on the statistical short end of the stick against Bouwmeester.
I suspect that Peca basically recited what he remembered from the scouting report on JBo when he was in the league.

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:07 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
If the Wings get Bouwmeester and miss the playoffs, does that mean the curse is confirmed?
Kind of, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I guess they are looking at Bouwmeester to be Stuart's replacement because he sure as hell is not going to control the pace of the game like Lidstrom did (then again nobody is). I figure Kronwall moves up as the slotted #1 guy on their blueline and Bouwmeester would be looked upon as the #2-3 guy on their depth chart.
This is what we are talking about. We could replace Stuart with Bouwmeester. Bouw is overpaid, but that's the problem Wings are ready to take and ease Calgary's situation.

Can't see the Wings moving Filppula though considering that he's their #2 C and they already lost Hudler to free agency. Filppula was centering Zetterberg and Hudler during the playoffs while Datsyuk was with Franzen and Bertuzzi. [/QUOTE]

Filppula was a top6 left winger throughout the season. Losing him doesn't affect the Wings center situation at all. Before last season, he has been mainly a center and Darren Helm is now growing to his earlier 3rd line role. We are going to push younger talent like Nyquist or Brunner to top6 wingers that could make Filppula replaceable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
It will take more than just Filppula to acquire Bouwmeester. Feaster holds all the cards. We're not looking to trade Bouwmeester, Detroit is desperate to acquire him.
Red Wings are far from desperate. They could sign somebody like Roszival any moment if they would want. It's the Flames that will become desperate to unload him after the cap drop happens with the new CBA.

Then you are over the cap and can do an amnesty buy-out. Fine. But what about trading some salary out to get a decent return. Like Filppula?

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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
Completely different situations. He was forced to trade Richards and Boyle (salary cap reasons), he's under no obligation to trade Bouwmeester.
Like I said above.

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:17 PM
  #188
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Filpula, a 2013 1st and a mid level defensive prospect to Calgary for Bouwmeester is how I think the deal would work.

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:22 PM
  #189
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Filpula, a 2013 1st and a mid level defensive prospect to Calgary for Bouwmeester is how I think the deal would work.
Good God no.

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:26 PM
  #190
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Who cares.
Ladislav Smid was paired with Petry all season on the first pairing and he was a + on the 2nd worst team in the league.

And Bouwmeester and Butler are leagues above Smid and Petry... Right?
Good post Skywalken.

Both bolded statements are correct!

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08-09-2012, 07:32 PM
  #191
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Filpulla would have to be going the other way

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08-09-2012, 07:36 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Mikael Backlund View Post
Peca is a moron.

He played 3 games against Bouw and was a -3 with 0 points. Bouw had 4 points and was a +3.
Peca was a shut down forward so he played the toughest minutes against the toughest lines. It's not easy to get a + player in those situations.

Bouwmeester posted some nice offense in those games though, it must've been before he went to Calgary and had all his offense dry up.

Regardless of how many times he played against him I think his point still stands, JBo is really easy to play against. I don't think there's any denying that.

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:46 PM
  #193
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He's a defenseman who is completely devoid of anything resembling physicality, he has accomplished nothing, he had some of the worst corsi numbers in the league, and he's overpaid as hell. The fact that Calgary wants anything at all for him shows how stupid Feaster is.

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08-09-2012, 08:03 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Generally View Post
He's a defenseman who is completely devoid of anything resembling physicality, he has accomplished nothing, he had some of the worst corsi numbers in the league, and he's overpaid as hell. The fact that Calgary wants anything at all for him shows how stupid Feaster is.
No they're not.

Bouwmeester played some of the toughest competition in the league on a mediocre team. His Corsi Relative numbers (comparison amongst teammates) just look bad but they're not because of the fact he had one of the highest TOI/G in the league, against some of the toughest competition in the league. Corsi numbers show he played some of the most difficult minutes in the league so it's no surprise that his teammates, who have better Corsi numbers amongst the team, have played against much easier competition.

By your logic Rusty Klesla, Roman Josi, Niklas Grossman, Karl Alzner are all terrible because they have "some of the worst corsi numbers in the league." By your logic Ryan Suter and Ryan McDonagh are just 'ok' players because they have 'ok' corsi numbers relative to their team.

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:03 PM
  #195
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Ok, so Calgary is set on a return package that includes Filppula? No thanks.

Thanks for playing everyone, let's all pick up our ball and go home.

/thread as J-Bo is being hilariously overrated.

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:08 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
No they're not.

Bouwmeester played some of the toughest competition in the league on a mediocre team. His Corsi Relative numbers (comparison amongst teammates) just look bad but, but they're not because of the fact he had one of the highest TOI/G in the league against some of the toughest competition in the league. Corsi numbers show he played some of the most difficult minutes in the league so it's no surprise that his teammates, who have better Corsi numbers amongst the team, have played against much easier competition.

By your logic Rusty Klesla, Roman Josi, Niklas Grossman, Karl Alzner are all terrible because they have "some of the worst corsi numbers in the league." By your logic Ryan Suter and Ryan McDonagh are just 'ok' players because they have 'ok' corsi numbers relative to their team.
Yes they are.

He played tough minutes and failed at it. It is what it is. He's not some sacrificial lamb. He is not a number one defensemen.

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08-09-2012, 08:16 PM
  #197
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So....Drew Miller, Cory Emmerton and Todd Bertuzzi?

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:22 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Generally View Post
Yes they are.

He played tough minutes and failed at it. It is what it is. He's not some sacrificial lamb. He is not a number one defensemen.
Let me put something into perspective for you.

Bouwmeester played the 6th most minutes (25:57) per game in the league. During that time, he played the 11th toughest minutes in the league according to your Corsi numbers and your complaining that his On-Ice Corsi (negative On-Ice Corsi means that other team is creating more offense than yours while you're on the ice) are bad? Or that his teammates On-Ice Corsi numbers look better than his when they're playing against much easier competition than Bouwmeester?

Bouwmeester's Corsi numbers look good, you're just looking at the wrong ones.

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08-09-2012, 08:29 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Let me put something into perspective for you.

Bouwmeester played the 6th most minutes (25:57) per game in the league. During that time, he played the 11th toughest minutes in the league according to your Corsi numbers and your complaining that his On-Ice Corsi (negative On-Ice Corsi means that other team is creating more offense than yours while you're on the ice) are bad? Or that his teammates On-Ice Corsi numbers look better than his when they're playing against much easier competition than Bouwmeester?

Bouwmeester's Corsi numbers look good, you're just looking at the wrong ones.
I'm not complaining about anything. The fact of the matter is he is getting paid like a top defenseman and he isn't performing like one. You can try to blame it on anything you want but it doesn't change reality. No one is chomping at the bit to get him, especially if Calgary thinks they're deserving of anything of value coming back.

Do you really think the Red Wings will be in shambles if they don't land Jay Bouwmeester?

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08-09-2012, 08:35 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Generally View Post
I'm not complaining about anything. The fact of the matter is he is getting paid like a top defenseman and he isn't performing like one. You can try to blame it on anything you want but it doesn't change reality. No one is chomping at the bit to get him, especially if Calgary thinks they're deserving of anything of value coming back.

Do you really think the Red Wings will be in shambles if they don't land Jay Bouwmeester?
I'm not really sure what condition the Red Wings will be in next season. What I think is that Bouwmeester would be an improvement on anyone not named Kronwall. Come to think of it, Bouwmeester on a puck possession team like Detroit may even end up with some of the best Corsi numbers in the league (playing against the toughest competition and getting some of the best results). He'll still get blasted for not being physically imposing enough for a guy his size despite playing well though

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