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Old
09-20-2012, 12:41 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Agree 100% with buggs and broinwhyteridge.

Great posts.
And I agree with you agreeing with them. Well said.

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09-20-2012, 01:56 PM
  #477
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Is there a link to verify that?? That's insane if true.

sorry for the delay here is the link to a Forbes article that was based on 2010 but my guess is the gulf has probably widened: To summarize the bottom 15 teams all but two of them lost money (according to Forbes) and the cumulative total losses of the bottom 15 teams was -$98.1 million.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/31/...s-10_rank.html



15 Colorado Avalanche 198 -4 15 82 2.3
16 Washington Capitals 197 7 40 82 -9.1
17 Ottawa Senators 196 -1 66 96 -3.8
18 San Jose Sharks 194 6 23 88 -6.2
19 Anaheim Ducks 188 -9 19 85 -5.2
20 Edmonton Oilers 183 10 55 87 8.2
21 Buffalo Sabres 169 0 30 81 -7.9
22 Florida Panthers 168 6 57 76 -9.6
23 St Louis Blues 165 -6 73 79 -6.2
24 Carolina Hurricanes 162 -9 80 75 -7.3
25 Columbus Blue Jackets 153 -7 29 76 -7.3
26 New York Islanders 151 1 66 63 -4.5
27 Nashville Predators 148 -5 55 74 -5.5
28 Tampa Bay Lightning 145 -24 31 76 -7.9
29 Atlanta Thrashers 135 -5 48 71 -8.0
30 Phoenix Coyotes 134 -3 26 67 -20.1


Now I mentioned Shea Weber would make more money in signing bonuses in the first year plus a day of his new contract than the bottom 15 teams in the league would make in profit cumulatively.

here is a link to an article on Weber's deal, he was given a signing bonus of $13 million on day 1 of his contract and $13 million on day 1 of year 2 of his contract so in one year plus one day Weber made $26 million in signing bonus's while the bottom 15 teams lost $98.1 million (over a similar period in 2010). So the net effect is Weber was actually up $124.1 million over the bottom 15 teams added together.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...f-these-deals/

If you would like I can try to get more current numbers and we can all gnash our teeth about Forbes or cooked books but the estimates paint and ugly picture. Remember the current CBA allows players to audit the books of NHL teams which they have done and the PA are not denying teams lose money.

hope these links suffice wilty


Last edited by ps241: 09-20-2012 at 03:59 PM.
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09-20-2012, 02:11 PM
  #478
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Supply and Demand is a good concept to trot out when you are talking about commodities. In this situation, it has no relevance. There's an infinite number of hockey players. You don't need a PHD in hockey to play. We're talking about smacking around a rubber disc with a stick. They may not be as talented as Crosby etc, and we'd feel the pain because we love the stars in the NHLPA, but the NHL could easily break the union if they wanted to with replacement players. It would be in bad faith and it would anger many fans. The reality is that the players need the NHL more than the NHL needs the players in the long run. The other reality is that most NHL players have, at most, a decade of earning power as a pro hockey player, yet many of them live like they'll be making millions on a yearly basis until they are retirement age. Losing significant time to a lockout(s) can be a backbreaker for many of them. Another reality is that very few industries have labour costs as high as pro sports (as a % of gross revenue). 57% is very high, and that is just for the players, not hockey operations, sales and building operations, although it gets kind of dicey with all the other revenue streams. 50% would be more than generous for the players.

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09-20-2012, 02:15 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Back in the Bigs View Post
"We're locked out," Ladd said. "(Getting more guys in Winnipeg) is helping the Winnipeg Jets... you know what I mean? This is a lockout. Our main priority isn't to stay ready for them, it's more for ourselves."
You would think in a city where the ownership group gets one of the loudest cheers in the building (during the anthem, nonetheless), some players would get the hint that opinions like this might be best kept behind closed doors.

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09-20-2012, 02:17 PM
  #480
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sorry for the delay here is the link to a Forbes article that was based on 2010 but my guess is the gulf has probably widened: To summarize the bottom 15 teams all but two of them lost money (according to Forbes) and the cumulative total losses of the bottom 15 teams is -$98.1 million.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/31/...s-10_rank.html



15 Colorado Avalanche 198 -4 15 82 2.3
16 Washington Capitals 197 7 40 82 -9.1
17 Ottawa Senators 196 -1 66 96 -3.8
18 San Jose Sharks 194 6 23 88 -6.2
19 Anaheim Ducks 188 -9 19 85 -5.2
20 Edmonton Oilers 183 10 55 87 8.2
21 Buffalo Sabres 169 0 30 81 -7.9
22 Florida Panthers 168 6 57 76 -9.6
23 St Louis Blues 165 -6 73 79 -6.2
24 Carolina Hurricanes 162 -9 80 75 -7.3
25 Columbus Blue Jackets 153 -7 29 76 -7.3
26 New York Islanders 151 1 66 63 -4.5
27 Nashville Predators 148 -5 55 74 -5.5
28 Tampa Bay Lightning 145 -24 31 76 -7.9
29 Atlanta Thrashers 135 -5 48 71 -8.0
30 Phoenix Coyotes 134 -3 26 67 -20.1


Now I mentioned Shea Weber would make more money in signing bonuses in the first year plus a day of his new contract than the bottom 15 teams in the league would make in profit cumulatively.

here is a link to an article on Weber's deal, he was given a signing bonus of $13 million on day 1 of his contract and $13 million on day 1 of year 2 of his contract so in one year plus one day Weber made $26 million in signing bonus's while the bottom 15 teams lost $98.1 million (over a similar period in 2010). So the net effect is Weber was actually up $124.1 million over the bottom 15 teams added together.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...f-these-deals/

If you would like I can try to get more current numbers and we can all gnash our teeth about Forbes or cooked books but the estimates paint and ugly picture. Remember the current CBA allows players to audit the books of NHL teams which they have done and the PA are not denying teams lose money.

hope these links suffice wilty

Just as a contrast, the San Diego Padres just sold for $800 million US and the LA Dodgers sold for $2.15 billion US.

TNSE purchased the Thrashers for $170 million US including a $60 million relocation fee.

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09-20-2012, 02:37 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Back in the Bigs View Post
.... yeah, tend to agree with this.... probably this quote from Andrew Ladd has lost him some favour with a few Jets fans:

Case in point: Winnipeg Jets' captain Andrew Ladd was asked Wednesday if there were any plans to get more of his teammates together for controlled scrimmages as a unit.

His answer hammered home how divisive the lockout has already become.

"We're locked out," Ladd said. "(Getting more guys in Winnipeg) is helping the Winnipeg Jets... you know what I mean? This is a lockout. Our main priority isn't to stay ready for them, it's more for ourselves."

I love Ladd and also believe in freedom of speech but if I was advising Andrew I would tell him to keep his comments on more of a high level (players vs. owners) and not get dragged into commenting on the Jets specifically. Unless he was misquoted he defiantly chunked this one.

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09-20-2012, 02:38 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I love Ladd and also believe in freedom of speech but if I was advising Andrew I would tell him to keep his comments on more of a high level (players vs. owners) and not get dragged into commenting on the Jets specifically. Unless he was misquoted he defiantly chunked this one.
Ya there have been lots of comments from players twitters that have been... interesting...

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09-20-2012, 02:43 PM
  #483
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Just as a contrast, the San Diego Padres just sold for $800 million US and the LA Dodgers sold for $2.15 billion US.

TNSE purchased the Thrashers for $170 million US including a $60 million relocation fee.
Yea and I personally feel the valuations on lower NHL teams are artificially inflated. They certainly are not off a normal EBITDA multiple (like most business transactions). I have heard from an astute poster that the valuations are off a multiple of revenue's? Bizarro world no doubt...........If these were cement plants with the same financials and not hockey teams with some sex appeal to rich guys they would never sell in a million years.

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09-24-2012, 09:28 PM
  #484
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Owners are scum

Because of crap likethis....http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...katz-lowe.html

To sum up. Billionaire with profitable team in strong market soaks taxpayers for new building. Then taxpayers agree, Billionaire changes deal and demands more cash from taxpayers or "I'm outa here with my team"!!!!!!!


Just wonderful. Wonderful people those NHL owners.....


Last edited by Skidooboy: 09-24-2012 at 09:35 PM. Reason: sp
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09-24-2012, 09:51 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Skidooboy View Post
Owners are scum

Because of crap likethis....http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...katz-lowe.html

To sum up. Billionaire with profitable team in strong market soaks taxpayers for new building. Then taxpayers agree, Billionaire changes deal and demands more cash from taxpayers or "I'm outa here with my team"!!!!!!!


Just wonderful. Wonderful people those NHL owners.....
nothing like a gross generalization to flame out a thread? You are calling the guy who invested $170 million dollars to bring the NHL back to Winnipeg scum?

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09-24-2012, 10:02 PM
  #486
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nothing like a gross generalization to flame out a thread? You are calling the guy who invested $170 million dollars to bring the NHL back to Winnipeg scum?
Ha...I was thinking the same thing. What is that thing we yell out during the anthem nowadays?

Katz IS a clown though. It's all bluffing and the City of Edmonton should call him on it. Go to the BoG with your relocation plans, Darryl - I hope Seattle/Hamilton/Albuquerque are making you a good deal because it's going to have to make up for the boycott/ruination of Rexall Pharmacies...

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09-24-2012, 10:05 PM
  #487
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Ha...I was thinking the same thing. What is that thing we yell out during the anthem nowadays?

Katz IS a clown though. It's all bluffing and the City of Edmonton should call him on it. Go to the BoG with your relocation plans, Darryl - I hope Seattle/Hamilton/Albuquerque are making you a good deal because it's going to have to make up for the boycott/ruination of Rexall Pharmacies...
Yea I am not a fan of Katz either but I happen to like our ownership group allot.

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09-24-2012, 10:13 PM
  #488
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Yeah cuz noone here but me has ever been prone to hyperbole.

TNSE aside(possibly, they may disapoint us yet) this is the sort of dealings that have become a hallmark of the NHL over the past 20 years. The Oilers make money for @#$% Sakes. Quit screwing the fans with huge ticket prices,specialty TV contracts, and then hammering them in the checkbook yet again with sweatheart tax breaks worth millions, and then...then **** them again for public funding of the arenas. whoops I mean even more money than we already agreed upon.

You can't see why I might be a little mad? what are you? TNSE pr staff? Did I mention the LOCKOUT yet? UNANIMOUS DECISION TO LOCKOUT I MIGHT ADD!!!!

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09-25-2012, 07:41 AM
  #489
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..Players are not partners with ownership. They are employees. Perhaps even elite employees, given the skill set they are hired for, but they are in no way partners.

"Partners" undertake the same modicum of business risk as each other. Ownership takes all the risk here. What do players risk? Their health, one might say. Fine and valid response... so stop playing hockey and go stock shelves at Walmart, work on the family farm or whatever else you might be qualified for (I doubt it gets you even 1/100th of your NHL salary).

43% to the players is a rediculous proposition? Funny how it isn't so rediculous when ownership has that... and has to pay all the expenses out of it.

In a true partnership, the split would be 50/50 of what is left after all expenses have been accounted for, and players would contribute to the equation all sponsorship and advertising revenue they get from promoting things like Gatorade, etc... ("partners", right?). I imagine that escrow would be a pretty high percentage in this arrangement, but if players continue blowing smoke, this is what they should be willing to accept going forward. It would be interesting to find out what these numbers would work out to.

...

In Winnipeg, players would be wise to shut the hell up in my opinion. In this market I believe most of the people spending $ on the team, whether that be tickets or merchandise, puts ownership up on a pedestal; without them we wouldn't have the team. Players have already shown that "saying all the right things" aside, they will up and leave at the drop of a hat (Glass, Mason as examples).

Sooner or later both sides will tire of their feedbags being empty. A deal will be struck. Hockey will be back. Let's hope that deal is a good one for small markets like Winnipeg.
But, but, but ... it's just not fair, dontcha know? That's what I'm hearing from the players...

Of course I'm kidding. Great post.

Ona related note, I really wish the Winnipeg media would stop interviewing players about the lockout. If I hear Ladd talk about the fairness of the lockout one more time I'm going to puke on the spot.

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09-25-2012, 08:13 AM
  #490
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Yeah cuz noone here but me has ever been prone to hyperbole.

TNSE aside(possibly, they may disapoint us yet) this is the sort of dealings that have become a hallmark of the NHL over the past 20 years. The Oilers make money for @#$% Sakes. Quit screwing the fans with huge ticket prices,specialty TV contracts, and then hammering them in the checkbook yet again with sweatheart tax breaks worth millions, and then...then **** them again for public funding of the arenas. whoops I mean even more money than we already agreed upon.

You can't see why I might be a little mad? what are you? TNSE pr staff? Did I mention the LOCKOUT yet? UNANIMOUS DECISION TO LOCKOUT I MIGHT ADD!!!!
Haha. You act like the owner's had a choice to lockout. If they don't, players tag along refusing to sign a CBA until right before playoffs (when paychecks stop incidentally) then strike, thereby cancelling playoffs. Would that be better?

And obviously it's unanimous. It's the message they HAVE to send, just like the players cannot be seen to be speaking out against Fehr and the PA, the owners can't be seen going against the majority and Bettman. It's all a giant game.

BTW, the Oilers claim to be losing money with a bad lease, so it's not really fair to claim they are making money. The books are closed, no way to be sure, but yeah.

Your idea is to have the owners charge less for their product, lose money via external revenue sources, pay the labour more and voluntarily pay more in debt and taxes...sounds like a sound business plan, I would like to invest in any potential business you start up. Let me know!

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09-25-2012, 08:18 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Skidooboy View Post
Yeah cuz noone here but me has ever been prone to hyperbole.

TNSE aside(possibly, they may disapoint us yet) this is the sort of dealings that have become a hallmark of the NHL over the past 20 years. The Oilers make money for @#$% Sakes. Quit screwing the fans with huge ticket prices,specialty TV contracts, and then hammering them in the checkbook yet again with sweatheart tax breaks worth millions, and then...then **** them again for public funding of the arenas. whoops I mean even more money than we already agreed upon.

You can't see why I might be a little mad? what are you? TNSE pr staff? Did I mention the LOCKOUT yet? UNANIMOUS DECISION TO LOCKOUT I MIGHT ADD!!!!
Business is business buddy. If we didnt comply they wouldn't do it

And quit acting like the NHL is some god given right that "capitalists" and billionair "scum" are ruining.

If your that angry about the politics and economics go watch minor Hockey. Oh wait, lots of politics and economics involved there too. If you think its different in any other league your naive. It may be "better" but its not drastically different. Become a fan of house league s or international tournaments only then. Because every league is a business first, entertainment second, and tradition/sentiment factor on waaay down the equation.

Does it suck? Yes. But so does paying taxes....

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09-25-2012, 09:55 AM
  #492
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Haha. You act like the owner's had a choice to lockout. If they don't, players tag along refusing to sign a CBA until right before playoffs (when paychecks stop incidentally) then strike, thereby cancelling playoffs. Would that be better?

And obviously it's unanimous. It's the message they HAVE to send, just like the players cannot be seen to be speaking out against Fehr and the PA, the owners can't be seen going against the majority and Bettman. It's all a giant game.

BTW, the Oilers claim to be losing money with a bad lease, so it's not really fair to claim they are making money. The books are closed, no way to be sure, but yeah.

Your idea is to have the owners charge less for their product, lose money via external revenue sources, pay the labour more and voluntarily pay more in debt and taxes...sounds like a sound business plan, I would like to invest in any potential business you start up. Let me know!
Yeah, sure the Oilers have a "bad lease" - the only thing they don't get is concert and other non-game revenues at Northlands (like TNSE does at the MTSC).

They pay $1 (rent), plus $878,166 (contribution toward operating costs) per year and receive all in-game revenues (tickets, boxes, concessions), 50% of parking, advertising. The don't pay capital costs or operating costs beyond the $878,166 (and according to Glendale, operating costs for an arena are somewhere between $6-$20 million). They have the 4th highest ticket prices in the league, sold out ever game since the last lockout (except for one game where a computer glitch held back a couple hundred available tickets) and have a waiting list for boxes and season tickets.

Info on the Oilers' lease is available here: http://www.northlands.com/userfiles/...ber%202010.pdf

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09-25-2012, 11:00 AM
  #493
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Yeah cuz noone here but me has ever been prone to hyperbole.

TNSE aside(possibly, they may disapoint us yet) this is the sort of dealings that have become a hallmark of the NHL over the past 20 years. The Oilers make money for @#$% Sakes. Quit screwing the fans with huge ticket prices,specialty TV contracts, and then hammering them in the checkbook yet again with sweatheart tax breaks worth millions, and then...then **** them again for public funding of the arenas. whoops I mean even more money than we already agreed upon.

You can't see why I might be a little mad? what are you? TNSE pr staff? Did I mention the LOCKOUT yet? UNANIMOUS DECISION TO LOCKOUT I MIGHT ADD!!!!
You are making it sound like a dirty thing that Katz is making money off his business investment of a reported $200 million dollars back in 2008?? It’s not intended to be a not for profit organization is it Skidooboy?

So you are blaming the owners for huge ticket prices, specialty TV contracts etc yet the owners are lucky to make 5 cents of net profit on each new dollar of revenue and the players get 57% of each new dollar in revenue charged to us fans strait onto their pay checks (gross) minus the fees to their agents?? so you are really blaming the owners for jacking the prices and letting the players off Scott free as they waltz away with all the gravy from the increased prices?

You ask if I (I assume you were talking to me?) am TNSE PR staff and I will say they (not all owners but our owners) are who I am squarely behind when it comes to this negotiation. TNSE are the guys who took a risk on building the MTS centre in downtown Winnipeg and provided me with great concerts and entertainment over the past decade. They are the people who took 6 or 7 years selling Winnipeg to the NHL........they are the guys who dropped $170 million dollars on the Thrashers and took a risk the people of our city would step up.....they are the guys who brought AHL then NHL hockey back to our town when nobody thought it was possible. I firmly believe they deserve to make a profit off this venture and it’s in all hockey fans best interest in Winnipeg if they do because it ensures we will keep a team here for the long term. The thing I really don't understand is why every Winnipeg Jets fan doesn't feel the same way? After all we already lost the team once because it got too expensive for our city? Serious question Skidooboy are you from Winnipeg and do your care if the Jets remain here?

What am I suppose to side with a ****** bag like Sean Avery more than I do TNSE?? I don't begrudge the players making their millions but they will come and go over the years and they will get by on 57%, 50%, or even 43% of the HRR just fine so sue me if I don't want to bust out the Woody Guthrie albums and lament over the plight of the downtrodden hard done by player.

And one last thing to your negative comment on the owners being "unanimous for the lock out" what did you really expect?? On the players side they give us the cheesy photo ops every time Fehr holds his press conference with the 30 players standing on the stage behind him in a show of solidarity so there are lots of groans to go around both ways.

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09-25-2012, 11:22 AM
  #494
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You are making it sound like a dirty thing that Katz is making money off his business investment of a reported $200 million dollars back in 2008?? It’s not intended to be a not for profit organization is it Skidooboy?

So you are blaming the owners for huge ticket prices, specialty TV contracts etc yet the owners are lucky to make 5 cents of net profit on each new dollar of revenue and the players get 57% of each new dollar in revenue charged to us fans strait onto their pay checks (gross) minus the fees to their agents?? so you are really blaming the owners for jacking the prices and letting the players off Scott free as they waltz away with all the gravy from the increased prices?

You ask if I (I assume you were talking to me?) am TNSE PR staff and I will say they (not all owners but our owners) are who I am squarely behind when it comes to this negotiation. TNSE are the guys who took a risk on building the MTS centre in downtown Winnipeg and provided me with great concerts and entertainment over the past decade. They are the people who took 6 or 7 years selling Winnipeg to the NHL........they are the guys who dropped $170 million dollars on the Thrashers and took a risk the people of our city would step up.....they are the guys who brought AHL then NHL hockey back to our town when nobody thought it was possible. I firmly believe they deserve to make a profit off this venture and it’s in all hockey fans best interest in Winnipeg if they do because it ensures we will keep a team here for the long term. The thing I really don't understand is why every Winnipeg Jets fan doesn't feel the same way? After all we already lost the team once because it got too expensive for our city? Serious question Skidooboy are you from Winnipeg and do your care if the Jets remain here?

What am I suppose to side with a ****** bag like Sean Avery more than I do TNSE?? I don't begrudge the players making their millions but they will come and go over the years and they will get by on 57%, 50%, or even 43% of the HRR just fine so sue me if I don't want to bust out the Woody Guthrie albums and lament over the plight of the downtrodden hard done by player.

And one last thing to your negative comment on the owners being "unanimous for the lock out" what did you really expect?? On the players side they give us the cheesy photo ops every time Fehr holds his press conference with the 30 players standing on the stage behind him in a show of solidarity so there are lots of groans to go around both ways.
amen brother, amen.

A business can't be a business if it doesn't have people paying for it. Don't get mad at the owners, get mad at all your fellow fans who support them. It's a hockey team for christ sakes, we're not talking about clean drinking water, or barefoot doctors. If the league has offended you (as it CLEARLY has) stop watching, it's that easy.

The concessions made in the last lockout laid the groundwork for Winnipeg to get a team back. What the owners are pushing for right now, will increase the likelihood the jets stay in winnipeg. The players plan of revenue sharing is a good idea too, and ideally they'll tak ea little from column a and a little from column b, but putting onus entirely on the owners is asinine.

Damn those owners and all their financial risk, non-guaranteed profits, poor margins, and lopsided playing field, it's not like they're the ones responsible for putting a team here, or negotiating a television contract so that we could watch it.....

Edit: the biggest issue is that people get hung up on "the players made concessions last time"... well yah they did, because they had a completely unchecked, unsustainable, golden-goose, sweet heart of a deal before hand. With those concession they made they still have a golden goose- sweet heart of a deal, it's just slightly more checked and sustainable. The pre 05 lockout was so far off the map from a good business model that it shouldn't even be considered in the negotiations, but w/e, i guess a couple photo-ops and sentimental youtube videos are all it takes to sway public opinion. The owners are asking too much, but have come up considerably, the NHLPA is asking too much and have "come up" a slight degree. Neither is exactly breaking down walls to get on the same page as the other and both are being bull headed, but its undeniable that ones clearly "negotiated" more then the other.

The NHLPA's offer has a clause that won't tlet them take less then 50 or 52%. So why the hell don't both sides just agree on that?


Last edited by Grind: 09-25-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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09-25-2012, 11:25 AM
  #495
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You are making it sound like a dirty thing that Katz is making money off his business investment of a reported $200 million dollars back in 2008?? It’s not intended to be a not for profit organization is it Skidooboy?

So you are blaming the owners for huge ticket prices, specialty TV contracts etc yet the owners are lucky to make 5 cents of net profit on each new dollar of revenue and the players get 57% of each new dollar in revenue charged to us fans strait onto their pay checks (gross) minus the fees to their agents?? so you are really blaming the owners for jacking the prices and letting the players off Scott free as they waltz away with all the gravy from the increased prices?

You ask if I (I assume you were talking to me?) am TNSE PR staff and I will say they (not all owners but our owners) are who I am squarely behind when it comes to this negotiation. TNSE are the guys who took a risk on building the MTS centre in downtown Winnipeg and provided me with great concerts and entertainment over the past decade. They are the people who took 6 or 7 years selling Winnipeg to the NHL........they are the guys who dropped $170 million dollars on the Thrashers and took a risk the people of our city would step up.....they are the guys who brought AHL then NHL hockey back to our town when nobody thought it was possible. I firmly believe they deserve to make a profit off this venture and it’s in all hockey fans best interest in Winnipeg if they do because it ensures we will keep a team here for the long term. The thing I really don't understand is why every Winnipeg Jets fan doesn't feel the same way? After all we already lost the team once because it got too expensive for our city? Serious question Skidooboy are you from Winnipeg and do your care if the Jets remain here?

What am I suppose to side with a ****** bag like Sean Avery more than I do TNSE?? I don't begrudge the players making their millions but they will come and go over the years and they will get by on 57%, 50%, or even 43% of the HRR just fine so sue me if I don't want to bust out the Woody Guthrie albums and lament over the plight of the downtrodden hard done by player.

And one last thing to your negative comment on the owners being "unanimous for the lock out" what did you really expect?? On the players side they give us the cheesy photo ops every time Fehr holds his press conference with the 30 players standing on the stage behind him in a show of solidarity so there are lots of groans to go around both ways.
Well said.

One thing I would take issue with though...are you not a Sean Avery fan? Thought I saw you wearing one of his t-shirts the other day. You are so hypocritical!

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09-25-2012, 11:32 AM
  #496
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Valid points, guys. And, one way to look at it given it is a business, the NHL/Owners are the employers and the players are the employees. It's really like no other business to a certain extent, sure each side is millionaires, some wealthier than others, but at the end of the day the players work for the NHL/Owners, that is who they are employed by.

It's a sport, but it's still a business. Generally speaking as an employee, of course you work hand-in-hand with your owner and generally it is "you" (the employee) who makes them their money, and in some cases it is "you" (the employee) who they advertise, who is the face of their business, etc. In some cases, like the NHL, the truth is the NHL/Owners could not have the business they do without the elite athletes in which the NHL'ers are. So with all of this being said I do understand that while in many business practices almost anyone is replaceable, the one stand the players have is they are not replaceable. Owners cannot fire nor walk away from them, hire someone else, and be just as well off. Truth is, each side absolutely needs the other in order to sustain and endure success, but at the end of the day here, business is business and there is an employer and an employee. Many won't agree with that black and white philosophy or line of thinking, but at the end of the day for me it's the truth.

I am not pro owners or pro players, I am in the middle, really. I just want both sides to come to the table and reach a fair agreement so we can continue on with the great sport. Of course it runs deeper than just this and isn't simply about salaries, but I think this is a valid side of it.

At the end of the day there is only one NHL. As I said, the owners need the players and the players need the owners - just the same amount. So hopefully sooner rather than later we can see both sides reach an agreement.

With all that being said, I can understand how the NHL is viewed as more of a "Partnership" than a business that is closer to a "Employer and Employee".

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Last edited by Guerzy: 09-25-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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09-25-2012, 12:27 PM
  #497
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Well let me tell you all about business


Katz had a deal. A deal. with Edmonton, then at the last minute he pulls out and wants changes. or he goes home. That isn't good business thats bad business. He' not negotiating in good faith. Bad Business Sleazy tactics. go ahead and thank him but I wont be.

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09-25-2012, 12:42 PM
  #498
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
Well said.

One thing I would take issue with though...are you not a Sean Avery fan? Thought I saw you wearing one of his t-shirts the other day. You are so hypocritical!
Busted!!!!!

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09-25-2012, 12:53 PM
  #499
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Originally Posted by Skidooboy View Post
Well let me tell you all about business


Katz had a deal. A deal. with Edmonton, then at the last minute he pulls out and wants changes. or he goes home. That isn't good business thats bad business. He' not negotiating in good faith. Bad Business Sleazy tactics. go ahead and thank him but I wont be.
I am not condoning Katz's little photo op trip to Seattle like Mario did to KC back in the day and I won't be thanking Katz anytime soon since I am not part of that city’s tax base nor am I part of their fan base so to me this is Edmonton's business. Seems like it is more complicated than you are making it out to be though no? I thought the cost "estimates" of this megaproject escalated and so far neither side can agree on the go forward plan to deal with the challenge and there seems to be allot of huffing and puffing on both sides based on the thread I am reading on this topic on the HF business board?

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09-25-2012, 01:43 PM
  #500
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Business is business buddy. If we didnt comply they wouldn't do it

And quit acting like the NHL is some god given right that "capitalists" and billionair "scum" are ruining.

If your that angry about the politics and economics go watch minor Hockey. Oh wait, lots of politics and economics involved there too. If you think its different in any other league your naive. It may be "better" but its not drastically different. Become a fan of house league s or international tournaments only then. Because every league is a business first, entertainment second, and tradition/sentiment factor on waaay down the equation.

Does it suck? Yes. But so does paying taxes....
Excuse me, business is business so we should just roll over and take it or leave with our tails between our legs? I'm afraid that if that is your recommended approach to business, then you are going to retire one broke dude!

Katz is taking a liberty that - though he will probably get away with it, I admit - is not within the normal realm of business. Burning bridges with your clientele rather than building a trust (Jets, anyone?) is no way to run a business. You may as well open a restaurant then admit to urinating on the food.

I have no problem with anyone tearing into Katz for this. I don't see it as defensible. And how about Lowe, Gretzky, and Mac. T? It seems they think they are the Oilers and that everything after 80's (stable team, loyal fans, love for hockey) is all down to them.

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