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2012 Lockout Discussion Thread

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Old
10-01-2012, 01:33 PM
  #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Krys Barch,


Your injuries?...


i'll take your cuts, your bruises, your missing teeth, concussions, sweating, bleeding and broken bones.

Krys Barch's comments make me sick.
Not to pile on Barch too much more but I have a question here for folks. I assume most posting here are hockey players. Ironically I stopped playing at 14 (that's another story altogether) but I can still relate to the whole injuries thing and I'm willing to bet that most here can as well. So does this particular aspect, and throwing it at the owners, ring especially hollow for anyone else?

Thinking about the "injuries" I've had over my lifetime of sports, from about age 6 until about age 40 (when I finally realized it wasn't worth the pain anymore) here's what I can come up with personally:

Four concussions

Broken nose, ankle, wrist and three fingers

Dislocated two other fingers

Stitches in chin, head, above both eyes, lip

two lost teeth

ruptured achilles tendon

so many ankle sprains that on occasion I'm used as a teaching example because my feet go in directions they shouldn't go

That's just off the top of my head. What'd I get out of it? First, a lifetime of playing sports I loved. Second, a couple of years of partial tuition fees at university, some decent clothing and free shoes over those two years. That's about it.

Now while it's interesting for me to look at that in print, I'm guessing I'm not even remotely unique amongst the tiny subset of former/recreational athletes that post on this board alone. So the claims of putting up with injuries just don't resonate with me at all. Anyone else?

Quote:
You know what I find funny. Someone is going after 20 percent of your money and many people expect them to take it lying down. It is even funnier when you consider the people going after the money are billionaires who gave them that money in first place after they locked them out last time.

I think the players have a right to be pissed, I know I would be if my current employers asked me to take a 20 percent paycut
Y'know Joe, I agree with you that they have a right to be pissed. At the same time though the owners aren't bright enough to control themselves, so I get where they are coming from. And the league most definitely needs to figure out what they're doing with the failing markets. But that's a double edged sword for the players too - Phoenix goes so too do 20+ skaters. Drop a couple more teams in addition to Phoenix by contracting a total of three and the NHL just killed nearly 10% of the NHL-level hockey jobs. That's tricky to me and you need to ensure the health of the league because that benefits players just as much.

As for current employers mine is currently going through a complete restructuring. I'm likely going to be lucky and keep my job as is with no pay cuts but a whole lot of people are going to be declared surplus. No 20% paycut even as an option. One more year of work then see ya later. What's happening to working folks in the real world that make around the average salary isn't very nice either. I think that's why folks have relatively little sympathy for the players. Barch provides a nice example of a guy making nearly a million bucks a year - 20 times or more the average worker out there whose facing losing their job permanently. I agree, the owners are idiots and knobs in many instances. So are many of the private industry guys and they aren't offering up 20% paycuts, they're offering up layoffs and termination. I know which I'd choose.

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10-02-2012, 08:03 AM
  #602
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10-02-2012, 08:08 AM
  #603
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Just went on NHL.com and looked at the beginning few days of the NHL schedule. Looks... so... good...

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10-02-2012, 08:32 PM
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Just went on NHL.com and looked at the beginning few days of the NHL schedule. Looks... so... good...
That's being a sucker for punishment. I've been avoiding looking at the schedule to see what would have been. Though I do have it stuck in my mind the Hawks were scheduled to be here Oct 16th. Man I was looking forward to watching Toews live.

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10-02-2012, 08:37 PM
  #605
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That's being a sucker for punishment. I've been avoiding looking at the schedule to see what would have been. Though I do have it stuck in my mind the Hawks were scheduled to be here Oct 16th. Man I was looking forward to watching Toews live.
NHL 13 has a thing where it asks you what your favourite team is then it keeps you updated on what the next team your favourite team will play next in real life. I keep getting sad seeing it change and imagine all the games we could have watched. Even if it was the preseason, it still would be the Jets.

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Old
10-04-2012, 01:53 PM
  #606
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NHL Cancels Games In October

League cancels games through October 24th. Yay - there goes my great draft of games out of my season ticket group.

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Old
10-04-2012, 02:26 PM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs View Post
NHL Cancels Games In October

League cancels games through October 24th. Yay - there goes my great draft of games out of my season ticket group.
we held off our draft until they get the CBA done. It usually only takes us a lunch hour to do it anyways so I look forward to winging it at some point here again this year

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10-04-2012, 04:06 PM
  #608
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Anyone know if the schedule was designed in 'segments' they could easily cancel and should they come to an agreement, simply continue with the balance of the schedule (virtually as is)?

With most NHL rinks being used by more than just the hockey team - say MSG as an extreme example - it would be very, very difficult to re-schedule a partial season.

Now I'm sure the league has various revised schedules 'in the can' to be pulled out when the time comes, but I'm curious what those trigger dates might be.

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10-04-2012, 04:18 PM
  #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs View Post
NHL Cancels Games In October

League cancels games through October 24th. Yay - there goes my great draft of games out of my season ticket group.
Hopefully you guys can re-draft whenever the season starts, because that would suck.

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10-04-2012, 04:40 PM
  #610
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So someone was doing some number crunching on Twitter. If the players would have accepted the NHL's last offer they would have lost 9% of what they would have made under the old CBA this year. With today's game cancellations, they have already lost 6.7%

The players will be the big losers here and the sooner they understand that and pressure the leadership of the PA the better.

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10-04-2012, 05:21 PM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
So someone was doing some number crunching on Twitter. If the players would have accepted the NHL's last offer they would have lost 9% of what they would have made under the old CBA this year. With today's game cancellations, they have already lost 6.7%

The players will be the big losers here and the sooner they understand that and pressure the leadership of the PA the better.
They must be really hitched to this whole "principle" business because there careers are short enough that No mater how big of A "victory" they win its virtually impossible for them to recoup there losses If a whole season goes. If I was a grunt player is be pissed. I'm losing money I can't recoup while the stars lose very little by playing in other leagues. I really don't get how the lower echelon of players can support he strong arm stance the pa:s playing. Principle is powerful thing, I suppose pride is to..

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10-04-2012, 05:42 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
They must be really hitched to this whole "principle" business because there careers are short enough that No mater how big of A "victory" they win its virtually impossible for them to recoup there losses If a whole season goes. If I was a grunt player is be pissed. I'm losing money I can't recoup while the stars lose very little by playing in other leagues. I really don't get how the lower echelon of players can support he strong arm stance the pa:s playing. Principle is powerful thing, I suppose pride is to..
Are the grunts of the NHL even supporting this? Nobody in the media seems to care about their opinion, so I'm wondering if their voices are even being heard.

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Old
10-04-2012, 06:01 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by EpicGingy View Post
Are the grunts of the NHL even supporting this? Nobody in the media seems to care about their opinion, so I'm wondering if their voices are even being heard.
I was under the imression the vast majority of team reps were generally your bottom six types. I could be off on that but it seemed thw most vocal have been lower guys. The ron hainseys and max talbots of the league.

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10-04-2012, 06:59 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by EpicGingy View Post
Are the grunts of the NHL even supporting this? Nobody in the media seems to care about their opinion, so I'm wondering if their voices are even being heard.
Ladd was on H&L this evening and they asked him about the grinders. Ladd's response, to paraphrase my understanding of his gist, is that these negotiations are very much about the lower end players - the elite guys will always be paid well, but it's the bottom end guys that need the extra whatever % of HRR. He was talking to Thorburn, and he's right on board with the union hanging tough.

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10-04-2012, 08:16 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Ladd was on H&L this evening and they asked him about the grinders. Ladd's response, to paraphrase my understanding of his gist, is that these negotiations are very much about the lower end players - the elite guys will always be paid well, but it's the bottom end guys that need the extra whatever % of HRR. He was talking to Thorburn, and he's right on board with the union hanging tough.
Okay, I hadn't heard about what they were thinking.

But... REALLY? They're going to lose more money in the end while they're going through with this. They don't need the extra HRR, if by some way these guys don't have enough money to float on if they've forged a decent NHL career, then it's their own fault for mismanaging their finances. Making around a 800,000 in the league for 2 or 3 years is enough to coast on for the rest of your life.

Why do all the players have to get so ********

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10-04-2012, 08:16 PM
  #616
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They were also saying on H & L that if the players had accepted the original proposal given by the owners and there was no lockout, the amount of money the players would have lost in the whole season under that scenario is less than what they will lose if the lockout last more than 6 weeks.
Fehr's taken advantage of the fact most of the players aren't exactly rocket scientists
sign a ****in' deal already you bozos!

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10-04-2012, 09:28 PM
  #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs View Post
NHL Cancels Games In October

League cancels games through October 24th. Yay - there goes my great draft of games out of my season ticket group.
Yeah we put our draft off. No use drafting games that won't be played. I have 1st pick this year (or next if no games played) no way I'm picking until the CBA is signed.

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Old
10-04-2012, 10:09 PM
  #618
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Originally Posted by Back in the Bigs View Post
They were also saying on H & L that if the players had accepted the original proposal given by the owners and there was no lockout, the amount of money the players would have lost in the whole season under that scenario is less than what they will lose if the lockout last more than 6 weeks.
Fehr's taken advantage of the fact most of the players aren't exactly rocket scientists
sign a ****in' deal already you bozos!
Yea Fehr was just being quoted on the Thursday night NFL Saying (Sportsnet):

"if the owners truely cared about the game and the fans, they would lift the lockout and allow the season to begin on time while negociations continue. a lockout should be the last resort in Bargaining, not the strategy of first resort. for nearly 20 years, the owners have elected to lock-out the players in an effort to secure massive concessions......we hope we will soon have a willing negociating partner."


Ok Don why did the PA drag their feet so long to get to the table? because you wanted the lockout I assume. Also since I can remember the expos lost championship because the MLB players went on strike to kill the world series I am pretty sure the NHL remembers.

Seriously the PR stuff both ways is laughable.....why bother......most of the fans would prefer they talked to each other and not us at this point.

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Old
10-04-2012, 11:47 PM
  #619
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Fehr is a d bag
He ****ed the mlb in 94 and he is trying to do the sane thing now
Just get the players to strike right when they stop getting paid.

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10-05-2012, 12:08 AM
  #620
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Ladd was on H&L this evening and they asked him about the grinders. Ladd's response, to paraphrase my understanding of his gist, is that these negotiations are very much about the lower end players - the elite guys will always be paid well, but it's the bottom end guys that need the extra whatever % of HRR. He was talking to Thorburn, and he's right on board with the union hanging tough.
And there is the problem with the NHLPA refusing to counter offer at this time. Those bottom end guys may never play in the NHL again if the season is lost, and therefore are irrelevant to what the upper echelon of NHLPA are fighting for...next year the Thorburn's of the NHL may be toiling in a lesser league as a new set of young talent enters into the league next year.

Did Thorburn carry Kane's bags to the airport as he left to earn a paycheck overseas? Solidarity brother...


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10-05-2012, 12:36 AM
  #621
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As for current employers mine is currently going through a complete restructuring. I'm likely going to be lucky and keep my job as is with no pay cuts but a whole lot of people are going to be declared surplus. No 20% paycut even as an option. One more year of work then see ya later. What's happening to working folks in the real world that make around the average salary isn't very nice either. I think that's why folks have relatively little sympathy for the players. Barch provides a nice example of a guy making nearly a million bucks a year - 20 times or more the average worker out there whose facing losing their job permanently. I agree, the owners are idiots and knobs in many instances. So are many of the private industry guys and they aren't offering up 20% paycuts, they're offering up layoffs and termination. I know which I'd choose.
I'm with you man. My employer is going through massive cuts, and many great and talented employees are losing their jobs. The rest of us (including me) are hanging on by the skin of our teeth. We'd all take pay cuts instead if we had a choice.

These players that feel hard done by need to come down to planet earth and see what it's like in the real world. These guys are multi-millionaires. They don't have real-world problems like worrying about paying the rent and putting food on the table.

I'm losing more respect for these guys every day.

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10-05-2012, 01:19 AM
  #622
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So this lockout is pissing me off just as much as the rest of you guys. I was wondering has anyone ever suggested just not showing up to the first games when the season does start? I now the likely hood of completely empty arenas is a pipe dream, but man would I love to see the NHL come back only to have their opening games broadcast with near empty arenas.

Sure they will still get revenue from the season ticket holders, but no revenue from concessions and the embarrassment of empty arena's, even if for just one night, would be a pretty strong message.

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10-05-2012, 06:13 AM
  #623
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Originally Posted by Gaald View Post
So this lockout is pissing me off just as much as the rest of you guys. I was wondering has anyone ever suggested just not showing up to the first games when the season does start? I now the likely hood of completely empty arenas is a pipe dream, but man would I love to see the NHL come back only to have their opening games broadcast with near empty arenas.

Sure they will still get revenue from the season ticket holders, but no revenue from concessions and the embarrassment of empty arena's, even if for just one night, would be a pretty strong message.
Well, I may be part of the problem rather than part of the solution, but when (big IF) they get going again this year, "I'll be back!" (to quote Arnold)... and the MTS Centre will be full to the rafters once again, and as pissed as we all are now, the cheers will no doubt be just as loud as before when the players hit the ice..
... but might be a different story in some of the US markets where ticket sales are definitely not a guarantee for the owners... there's a thread on the main boards about how irrelevant hockey is in the States (even in what we might think are long term, traditional markets) and a long lockout is going to make the game even more invisible (and laughable) to the multitudes down South that Gary was so sure the game could be 'sold' to...

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10-05-2012, 06:34 AM
  #624
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So this lockout is pissing me off just as much as the rest of you guys. I was wondering has anyone ever suggested just not showing up to the first games when the season does start? I now the likely hood of completely empty arenas is a pipe dream, but man would I love to see the NHL come back only to have their opening games broadcast with near empty arenas.

Sure they will still get revenue from the season ticket holders, but no revenue from concessions and the embarrassment of empty arena's, even if for just one night, would be a pretty strong message.
I heard a couple guys on H&L talking guff like this. One guy suggested putting "pressure" on US senators!?? LOL. I know this situation sucks, but this is a big business and the fact is all we fans can really do is sit back and wait for them to work it out. Then, when they start back up again, we need to support our teams if we want them to remain viable. Why would we here in Winnipeg boycott Jets games? Who are we punishing? Mark Chipman? Yeah, he's a bad dude and deserves to be punished for...erm...bringing us a franchise...errr yah.

Fehr really needs to cut the "its the NHL who chose to lock us out. We could all be happily playin and negotiatin right now if not for big bad Bettman and those mean owners!" crap. Anyone that can't see through that BS is an idiot...

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10-05-2012, 07:42 AM
  #625
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Originally Posted by Gaald View Post
So this lockout is pissing me off just as much as the rest of you guys. I was wondering has anyone ever suggested just not showing up to the first games when the season does start? I now the likely hood of completely empty arenas is a pipe dream, but man would I love to see the NHL come back only to have their opening games broadcast with near empty arenas.

Sure they will still get revenue from the season ticket holders, but no revenue from concessions and the embarrassment of empty arena's, even if for just one night, would be a pretty strong message.
To me this sends the wrong message. I want to support TNSE. I'd much rather see the players be sent the message.

How about skating out to complete silence or the entire crowd turning their back on the players. That's what i'd like to see.

How can we support TNSE. Does the PA get any revenue from merch sales ? I am looking to buy a couple things but do not want to support the PA at all so I've been waiting.

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