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50 Bucks a seat to get on the waiting list??

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Old
08-16-2012, 03:52 PM
  #101
indigobuffalo
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I don't think it's a big deal. Weren't they already charging people last season to sit on the waiting list? They're just being consistent. And it's not really that crazy a price, really.

$50... assuming you have the capital needed to support the actual season tickets you're on the wait list for (rather than maybe being in a position to suddenly have to refinance your home when you get in...) then it's not a big deal.

I would be surprised if this had a long-term effect on the people actually wanting to go see the Jets.

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08-16-2012, 04:10 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
**** thank you!

You are not the only one!
Some people's expectations are a little too high, methinks. Yes, they are a professional organization, but they are now in a different league than the AHL. What was acceptable business practices there may not transition well to catering to an NHL fanbase and business. They have only been in the NHL business one lousy year. Of course there will be kinks and bugs that will appear, but as businesspeople, I am confident they will work them out over the course of a few years. These things take time. To expect perfection, at ANYTIME, is only setting one's self up for failure. Not to mention that fact that they are only human, and mistakes will be made.

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08-16-2012, 04:42 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
**** thank you!

You are not the only one!
Make that three. All the sideways attempts at villainizing True North (yes, we are all aware they are a business and not a bunch of angels in any case) is tiresome.

And I have to reiterate...his beloved Bruins charge twice as much - $100 to be on the waiting list. I don't see him 'railing against the man' on those forums.

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Old
08-16-2012, 04:56 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Make that three.
Plus one more.

We are very lucky to have this particular ownership group here in Winnipeg.


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08-16-2012, 05:01 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
And I have to reiterate...his beloved Bruins charge twice as much - $100 to be on the waiting list. I don't see him 'railing against the man' on those forums.
My point exactly.

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08-16-2012, 06:39 PM
  #106
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K I'm about to go all economics...

His worries could be warranted, buuuuuuut...
they currently are not and won't be until there actually is an actual significant drop of demand, which there hasn't been.

Welcome to business. They should not (not will not, should not) change that unless there is an actual significance drop in the demand for being on the wait-list, and that's without taking in account the perks that could pay for itself with the purchase. Anything else is bad business. You say you fear this because you want the team to last and not "alienate" its customer base.... Well, bad business is worse.

I'm sorry, but I have difficulty sympathizing with your views:
*You said there is no tangible benefit, yet in the same sentence you name one that could pay for itself in savings (plus there are others). This is really no different than buying memberships to exclusive clubs, etc. where the biggest perk is the opportunity to become a season tickets holder.
*You give your restaurant example because it fits your business model even though it's not a similar or comparable industry, yet denounce examples of the same model being used in the same industry as TNSE.
*You say you understand that it's a business first, yet you call it a cash grab when that's the whole point and purpose of every non-profit business on the entire planet.
*You ask why do it when its only "half a days payroll" or "break them or make them rich," yet if I asked you for half your days wages for no reason you would say no (and yes giving away money is the same as not using an opportunity to make it, as you had the opportunity to make that money and gave it away {AKA opportunity costs}).
*You say that it's bad business because the price could alienate some customers, yet fail to realize that any price of any product that is more than free alienates some potential customers. The whole theory of supply and demand is about this. You don't want too much or too little demand; both are bad.
*You say long term this is bad, yet you don't realize that potentially long term this could be good. The only way it can be bad is if alienating some potential customers is indeed enough to cause an affect, which you have absolute no idea if it actually would, ceteris paribus.
*You say if they alienate one customer that's too many. Wrong, wrong, wrong! Example: Safeway alienates customers by being more expensive for the same product as Walmart, but it has it's own values and still is a viable business. Alienating some customers is good and fine. The point is finding the critical point, where profits are maximized, by having the highest price possible with enough demand that costs are minimized. This is the whole theory of microeconomics.

*In the same post you state a "fair price would be zero," and that you are "well aware they are a private enterprise" and a "business man," yet you fail to see the contradiction in these statements. Go learn the paradox of value and re-read your Econ 101 on supply and demand. "Fair price" is both subjective, arbitrary and useless. Price is set by market value created by costs, supply and demand. Yes demand has historically dropped in Winnipeg but this was due to multiple variables... but if you really think that $50 for wait-list spot will decrease the demand for their product (key point here) enough so that the gains from the $50 are outweighed by the loses of demand and TNSE won't notice or care about it. Then you have no faith in them (which you are entitled to have) and you are a complete lost cause for any of us to try and convince otherwise.

Lecture done... I could go on with more but if this isn't enough than nothing else will help.


Last edited by garret9: 08-17-2012 at 01:37 PM. Reason: grammar... He's??? really was I that tired???
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Old
08-17-2012, 10:32 AM
  #107
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DAMN!

In the famous word of Ron Simmons of the WWE.

Well done!

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Old
08-17-2012, 10:46 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Because you make it sound like a crime against nature, or something of that magnitude. It happens to many other teams from what I gather, and perhaps even your beloved Bruins. Do you care about their fanbase just as equaly? If you do, I suggest you make a big stink about it on their forum as well.

Sorry, there has just been lots of whining about the owners and their business handlings lately that it's getting on my nerves.
Whining?
A crime against nature?

Not at all. I'm personally concerned that the Jets stay a viable operation. I want them to succeed, and I question this move. That's all.

Not sure how I'm making a "big stink"...

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Old
08-17-2012, 10:49 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Make that three. All the sideways attempts at villainizing True North (yes, we are all aware they are a business and not a bunch of angels in any case) is tiresome.

And I have to reiterate...his beloved Bruins charge twice as much - $100 to be on the waiting list. I don't see him 'railing against the man' on those forums.
First off, I don't live in Boston, and will never buy season tickets, so I'm not sure why I would care about them charging a fee.

Secondly, the chance of the Bruins failing in Boston is pretty slim. Given the history of the Jets in Winnipeg, and the smaller than normal population base for a city with a major league sport, the chance is obviously somewhat greater.

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Old
08-17-2012, 10:49 AM
  #110
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I'd feel lucky at only paying $50 to get on the Season Ticket waiting list.

Pens fans pay $200 per seat to get on the list. They have over 9000 people on their list from what they said last season.

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Old
08-17-2012, 10:51 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
K I'm about to go all economics...

He's worries could be warranted, buuuuuuut...
they currently are not and won't be until there actually is an actual significant drop of demand, which there hasn't been.

Welcome to business. They should not (not will not, should not) change that unless there is an actual significance drop in the demand for being on the wait-list, and that's without taking in account the perks that could pay for itself with the purchase. Anything else is bad business. You say you fear this because you want the team to last and not "alienate" its customer base.... Well, bad business is worse.

I'm sorry, but I have difficulty sympathizing with your views:
*You said there is no tangible benefit, yet in the same sentence you name one that could pay for itself in savings (plus there are others). This is really no different than buying memberships to exclusive clubs, etc. where the biggest perk is the opportunity to become a season tickets holder.
*You give your restaurant example because it fits your business model even though it's not a similar or comparable industry, yet denounce examples of the same model being used in the same industry as TNSE.
*You say you understand that it's a business first, yet you call it a cash grab when that's the whole point and purpose of every non-profit business on the entire planet.
*You ask why do it when its only "half a days payroll" or "break them or make them rich," yet if I asked you for half your days wages for no reason you would say no (and yes giving away money is the same as not using an opportunity to make it, as you had the opportunity to make that money and gave it away {AKA opportunity costs}).
*You say that it's bad business because the price could alienate some customers, yet fail to realize that any price of any product that is more than free alienates some potential customers. The whole theory of supply and demand is about this. You don't want too much or too little demand; both are bad.
*You say long term this is bad, yet you don't realize that potentially long term this could be good. The only way it can be bad is if alienating some potential customers is indeed enough to cause an affect, which you have absolute no idea if it actually would, ceteris paribus.
*You say if they alienate one customer that's too many. Wrong, wrong, wrong! Example: Safeway alienates customers by being more expensive for the same product as Walmart, but it has it's own values and still is a viable business. Alienating some customers is good and fine. The point is finding the critical point, where profits are maximized, by having the highest price possible with enough demand that costs are minimized. This is the whole theory of microeconomics.

*In the same post you state a "fair price would be zero," and that you are "well aware they are a private enterprise" and a "business man," yet you fail to see the contradiction in these statements. Go learn the paradox of value and re-read your Econ 101 on supply and demand. "Fair price" is both subjective, arbitrary and useless. Price is set by market value created by costs, supply and demand. Yes demand has historically dropped in Winnipeg but this was due to multiple variables... but if you really think that $50 for wait-list spot will decrease the demand for their product (key point here) enough so that the gains from the $50 are outweighed by the loses of demand and TNSE won't notice or care about it. Then you have no faith in them (which you are entitled to have) and you are a complete lost cause for any of us to try and convince otherwise.

Lecture done... I could go on with more but if this isn't enough than nothing else will help.
Well done Garret...I own a business - but I actually think that I learned something from your lecture

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Old
08-17-2012, 10:55 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
K I'm about to go all economics...

He's worries could be warranted, buuuuuuut...
they currently are not and won't be until there actually is an actual significant drop of demand, which there hasn't been.

Welcome to business. They should not (not will not, should not) change that unless there is an actual significance drop in the demand for being on the wait-list, and that's without taking in account the perks that could pay for itself with the purchase. Anything else is bad business. You say you fear this because you want the team to last and not "alienate" its customer base.... Well, bad business is worse.

I'm sorry, but I have difficulty sympathizing with your views:
*You said there is no tangible benefit, yet in the same sentence you name one that could pay for itself in savings (plus there are others). This is really no different than buying memberships to exclusive clubs, etc. where the biggest perk is the opportunity to become a season tickets holder.
*You give your restaurant example because it fits your business model even though it's not a similar or comparable industry, yet denounce examples of the same model being used in the same industry as TNSE.
*You say you understand that it's a business first, yet you call it a cash grab when that's the whole point and purpose of every non-profit business on the entire planet.
*You ask why do it when its only "half a days payroll" or "break them or make them rich," yet if I asked you for half your days wages for no reason you would say no (and yes giving away money is the same as not using an opportunity to make it, as you had the opportunity to make that money and gave it away {AKA opportunity costs}).
*You say that it's bad business because the price could alienate some customers, yet fail to realize that any price of any product that is more than free alienates some potential customers. The whole theory of supply and demand is about this. You don't want too much or too little demand; both are bad.
*You say long term this is bad, yet you don't realize that potentially long term this could be good. The only way it can be bad is if alienating some potential customers is indeed enough to cause an affect, which you have absolute no idea if it actually would, ceteris paribus.
*You say if they alienate one customer that's too many. Wrong, wrong, wrong! Example: Safeway alienates customers by being more expensive for the same product as Walmart, but it has it's own values and still is a viable business. Alienating some customers is good and fine. The point is finding the critical point, where profits are maximized, by having the highest price possible with enough demand that costs are minimized. This is the whole theory of microeconomics.

*In the same post you state a "fair price would be zero," and that you are "well aware they are a private enterprise" and a "business man," yet you fail to see the contradiction in these statements. Go learn the paradox of value and re-read your Econ 101 on supply and demand. "Fair price" is both subjective, arbitrary and useless. Price is set by market value created by costs, supply and demand. Yes demand has historically dropped in Winnipeg but this was due to multiple variables... but if you really think that $50 for wait-list spot will decrease the demand for their product (key point here) enough so that the gains from the $50 are outweighed by the loses of demand and TNSE won't notice or care about it. Then you have no faith in them (which you are entitled to have) and you are a complete lost cause for any of us to try and convince otherwise.

Lecture done... I could go on with more but if this isn't enough than nothing else will help.
LOL

Good and valid points garret, and of course you're right.
I'm sure they have thought about this and analyzed, but I'm sure you'll agree that there is a high probability that the demand for tickets now is not the same as what the demand will be years down the road.

Of course if the team is successful (playoffs soon and hopefully deep runs in a few years), the demand may even go up, and my concerns would be completely unwarranted.

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Old
08-17-2012, 10:57 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
Whining?
A crime against nature?

Not at all. I'm personally concerned that the Jets stay a viable operation. I want them to succeed, and I question this move. That's all.

Not sure how I'm making a "big stink"...
Cneely - I happen to think that you brought up a good point for discussion. Just because pretty much all of us don't agree with your concern, doesn't mean it is not a good thing to discuss.

Just wondering, based upon all of the posts, have you changed your mind at all? As I stated in one of my earlier comments, I don't really think you are the Jets target market anyway (as you said you just wait for buddies to take you to games for free).

Still like the fact you brought it up for discussion! Cheers

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08-17-2012, 11:01 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
Cneely - I happen to think that you brought up a good point for discussion. Just because pretty much all of us don't agree with your concern, doesn't mean it is not a good thing to discuss.

Just wondering, based upon all of the posts, have you changed your mind at all? As I stated in one of my earlier comments, I don't really think you are the Jets target market anyway (as you said you just wait for buddies to take you to games for free).

Still like the fact you brought it up for discussion! Cheers
Based on the discussion here, and the fact that so many are very ready to pony up, maybe my concerns are unwarranted. I just hope demand stays this high for the forseeable future.

The difference between Winnipeg and the other markets being brought up (Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc) is pretty obvious. Larger markets, larger demand for tickets.

And FYI, I don't count on buddies to buy me tickets, lol... I generally attend with corporate seats, and certainly have a say in my corporation's entertainment spending, so I guess technically, I am a buyer.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:19 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
Based on the discussion here, and the fact that so many are very ready to pony up, maybe my concerns are unwarranted. I just hope demand stays this high for the forseeable future.

The difference between Winnipeg and the other markets being brought up (Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc) is pretty obvious. Larger markets, larger demand for tickets.

And FYI, I don't count on buddies to buy me tickets, lol... I generally attend with corporate seats, and certainly have a say in my corporation's entertainment spending, so I guess technically, I am a buyer.
Larger markets don't necessarily mean larger demand for tickets. The Canadian markets are not large markets and they're all in the top 15 in revenue and ticket sales. Pittsburgh is not a large market and have experienced ownership issues.

Large markets to the NHL are LA, Chicago, NYC, Phoenix (untapped market that will never work), Detroit, Toronto, Montreal.

And people in LA still don't care about the Kings and Chicago only became a large market with the demand after their owner died and wasn't screwing over the fans. I still think half their fan base are bandwagoners that only like them because they won the cup.

Oh god, who cares that you get corporate tickets. You're just show boating here. Rubbing it in that you get tickets. You still don't have to pay for them. Most people spend their hard earned money for tickets to one game a year. Hell I had to buy singles just so I could go last year.

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08-17-2012, 11:39 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by CanucksnWpg View Post
Larger markets don't necessarily mean larger demand for tickets. The Canadian markets are not large markets and they're all in the top 15 in revenue and ticket sales. Pittsburgh is not a large market and have experienced ownership issues.

Large markets to the NHL are LA, Chicago, NYC, Phoenix (untapped market that will never work), Detroit, Toronto, Montreal.

And people in LA still don't care about the Kings and Chicago only became a large market with the demand after their owner died and wasn't screwing over the fans. I still think half their fan base are bandwagoners that only like them because they won the cup.

Oh god, who cares that you get corporate tickets. You're just show boating here. Rubbing it in that you get tickets. You still don't have to pay for them. Most people spend their hard earned money for tickets to one game a year. Hell I had to buy singles just so I could go last year.
Holding constant local affinity for the sport, of course there is larger demand in larger markets. Edmonton has 300k more people than Winnipeg. Calgary 400k. Ottawa 260k. Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto are obviously much larger.

It wasn't my intention to rub anything in. Point is that I am not really personally affected by their decision to charge $50. My concern roots from the fact that I want to see this team succeed, as we all do.

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08-17-2012, 11:45 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
Based on the discussion here, and the fact that so many are very ready to pony up, maybe my concerns are unwarranted. I just hope demand stays this high for the forseeable future.

The difference between Winnipeg and the other markets being brought up (Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc) is pretty obvious. Larger markets, larger demand for tickets.

And FYI, I don't count on buddies to buy me tickets, lol... I generally attend with corporate seats, and certainly have a say in my corporation's entertainment spending, so I guess technically, I am a buyer.
Cool...I hope demand is like this for the rest of my life...cheers!

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08-17-2012, 12:34 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
A fair price to me would be zero.

I'm well aware that they're a private enterprise, and are in it to make a profit. The problem is they run the risk of alienating customers.

Take the new Famous Dave's on Reenders for example. I was involved with the organization building and opening that store, and I understand there has been 2 hour wait times for lunch and dinner. Do you think it would be acceptable for the owners of Famous Dave's to charge a fee for the privilege of waiting in line? Do you think there would still be 2 hour line ups if they did that?

I'm a capitalist, and a business man. I understand the concept of supply and demand. The problem is that given the history of the Jets in Winnipeg, True North shouldn't take their customers for granted. The team is new and shiny right now, but they can't afford to alienate any of their potential paying customers.

I understand the desire to have only serious buyers on the list, but I don't see it as a big deal. If there are 100,000 people on the list, and a ticket comes free, you start calling. If they aren't interested, you move on to the next name.
Man. Winnipeggers are cheap. $50. Get real.

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08-17-2012, 12:36 PM
  #119
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Man. Winnipeggers are cheap. $50. Get real.
You either haven't read the thread or are completely missing the point.

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08-17-2012, 12:38 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
Holding constant local affinity for the sport, of course there is larger demand in larger markets. Edmonton has 300k more people than Winnipeg. Calgary 400k. Ottawa 260k. Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto are obviously much larger.

It wasn't my intention to rub anything in. Point is that I am not really personally affected by their decision to charge $50. My concern roots from the fact that I want to see this team succeed, as we all do.
Dude, if $50 is enough to alienate people and hurt the teams long term success, then Winnipeg is not a viable NHL city. Come on.

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08-17-2012, 12:49 PM
  #121
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You either haven't read the thread or are completely missing the point.
Does MLSE employ staff and resources to maintain the waiting list? Are you telling me they should do it for nothing or at a loss? Doesn't the $ go as a deposit to the seats? If so the only money they actually make is the interest on the deposits. I hope that is enough to pay for the wait list staff. Otherwise MLSE is operating this portion of the business at a loss. If you are worried about their long term success you shouldn't want them conducting operations at a loss. Not to mention there are tangible benefits of being on the wait list as people have mentioned.

Excuse me while I go to the bathroom since its my round to buy drinks.

I love Winnipeg but this stuff is embarrassing. Thankfully most posters here are not of that mindset and seem to have some common sense!

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08-17-2012, 01:01 PM
  #122
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Does MLSE employ staff and resources to maintain the waiting list? Are you telling me they should do it for nothing or at a loss? Doesn't the $ go as a deposit to the seats? If so the only money they actually make is the interest on the deposits. I hope that is enough to pay for the wait list staff. Otherwise MLSE is operating this portion of the business at a loss. If you are worried about their long term success you shouldn't want them conducting operations at a loss. Not to mention there are tangible benefits of being on the wait list as people have mentioned.

Excuse me while I go to the bathroom since its my round to buy drinks.

I love Winnipeg but this stuff is embarrassing. Thankfully most posters here are not of that mindset and seem to have some common sense!
MLSE? I assume you mean True North.

If you have demand, certainly, you can charge a fee, and as garret mentioned, you'd be silly not to.

Given the history of the team in Winnipeg, however, I'd submit that our population may not be large enough to support that demand long term. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

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08-17-2012, 01:04 PM
  #123
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Dude, if $50 is enough to alienate people and hurt the teams long term success, then Winnipeg is not a viable NHL city. Come on.
Given the current structure of NHL payrolls, and our city's population, the question of whether or not Winnipeg is a viable NHL city is exactly my concern.
TNSE should be doing everything they can to make the sport as accessible as possible to all citizens of Winnipeg.

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08-17-2012, 01:30 PM
  #124
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how could they possibly make it accessible to all citizens of Winnipeg?
The price point is significantly higher than probably half of Winnipegers could either afford to pay or be willing to pay, don't you think?
But, it is definitely priced at a point that many WILL gladly pay, and that's all they need to really worry about, seems to me

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08-17-2012, 01:53 PM
  #125
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Given the current structure of NHL payrolls, and our city's population, the question of whether or not Winnipeg is a viable NHL city is exactly my concern.
TNSE should be doing everything they can to make the sport as accessible as possible to all citizens of Winnipeg.
Live NHL hockey is generally accessible to those with large amounts of disposible income. Everyone else watches on TV or listens to radio and is no less of a supporter of the team.

I would propose that TNSE would go one step further and only make tickets accessible to those who buy yearly team memberships. This would be done in a similar fashion to English Soccer.

TNSE is running a business not a charity.

http://www.manutd.com/en/One-United.aspx

http://www.chelseafc.com/membership-...ms--conditions

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