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08-17-2012, 01:54 PM
  #126
cneely
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Originally Posted by Back in the Bigs View Post
how could they possibly make it accessible to all citizens of Winnipeg?
The price point is significantly higher than probably half of Winnipegers could either afford to pay or be willing to pay, don't you think?
But, it is definitely priced at a point that many WILL gladly pay, and that's all they need to really worry about, seems to me
For now, as Jets hockey is the new, shiny, sexy thing to do in Winnipeg.
As I said, I hope that demand continues long into the future.

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08-17-2012, 01:56 PM
  #127
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Live NHL hockey is generally accessible to those with large amounts of disposible income. Everyone else watches on TV or listens to radio and is no less of a supporter of the team.

I would propose that TNSE would go one step further and only make tickets accessible to those who buy yearly team memberships. This would be done in a similar fashion to English Soccer.

TNSE is running a business not a charity.

http://www.manutd.com/en/One-United.aspx

http://www.chelseafc.com/membership-...ms--conditions
In a market with less than 700k in population, I'd suggest they make great efforts to make the game somewhat accessible to every single one of those people.

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08-17-2012, 02:05 PM
  #128
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In a market with less than 700k in population, I'd suggest they make great efforts to make the game somewhat accessible to every single one of those people.
We can agree to disagree.

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08-17-2012, 02:13 PM
  #129
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We can agree to disagree.
Of course. Message boards wouldn't be much fun if we all agreed on everything.

I expect that if you're going to compare the Winnipeg Jets to Manchester United, the richest and most successful sports franchise on the planet, then we will disagree on a great many things.


Last edited by cneely: 08-17-2012 at 02:18 PM. Reason: lol spellcheck
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08-17-2012, 02:18 PM
  #130
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I love Winnipeg but this stuff is embarrassing. Thankfully most posters here are not of that mindset and seem to have some common sense!
This, 100x. It's threads like this that make our fanbase seem small-leaguish and ready to bolt at any second, none of which are true.

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08-17-2012, 02:19 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
Given the history of the team in Winnipeg, however, I'd submit that our population may not be large enough to support that demand long term. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
Great. You have made your point. You will be proven wrong, but you made your point. I'm sick and tired of insinuations that our market won't last, especially coming from those who are supposed Jets fans, even if it's only their second-in-line team to cheer for.

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08-17-2012, 02:22 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
This, 100x. It's threads like this that make our fanbase seem small-leaguish and ready to bolt at any second, none of which are true.
What's embarrassing to me is that most here want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that the Jets are Manchester United, the Leafs the Yankees.
The reality is, we face very, very different challenges than those teams.

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08-17-2012, 02:23 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Great. You have made your point. You will be proven wrong, but you made your point. I'm sick and tired of insinuations that our market won't last, especially coming from those who are supposed Jets fans, even if it's only their second-in-line team to cheer for.
I don't think anyone is insinuating anything.
The response to the team has obviously been remarkable. That's a great sign.

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08-17-2012, 02:26 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
What's embarrassing to me is that most here want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that the Jets are Manchester United, the Leafs the Yankees.
The reality is, we face very, very different challenges than those teams.
The reality is also we are no Hazelridge. What is you're main objective here, to try and coax us into becoming fearful of losing the team again because of a stupid 50$ waiting list fee that most other teams charge?


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 08-17-2012 at 02:40 PM. Reason: flaming
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08-17-2012, 02:28 PM
  #135
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I don't think anyone is insinuating anything.
Yes you are.

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08-17-2012, 02:39 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
The reality is also we are no Hazelridge. What is you're main objective here, to try and coax us into becoming fearful of losing the team again because of a stupid 50$ waiting list fee that most other teams charge?
What is my intention?

To have an intelligent, rational discussion on a forum that I thought was appropriate for discussion.

Winnipeg is a small city with a relatively small population of affluent individuals. Is it in their best interests to use a similar business model to larger, more affluent teams?


Last edited by cneely: 08-17-2012 at 02:41 PM. Reason: qep
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08-17-2012, 02:40 PM
  #137
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Yes you are.
The fact is I'm not insinuating anything.

I can't see into the future any better than you can.

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08-17-2012, 02:46 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
What's embarrassing to me is that most here want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that the Jets are Manchester United, the Leafs the Yankees.
The reality is, we face very, very different challenges than those teams.
If anything, I think the opinions in this thread prove (to a certain extent anyway given it is understandably a very small sample size of people) that the fans could likely care less about the $50 charge for the waiting list. You can speak from your point of view in terms of business, and others in this thread can do the same, however, from what I can gather most understand that in order to run a successful business there are certain marketing areas that must be tapped into, this being one of them.

I don't think the passion and love for the game of Hockey and the Winnipeg Jets will ever leave the fans of Winnipeg, Manitoba. And as things stand right now, it appears as though economically speaking, residents of Winnipeg and Manitoba in general are doing just fine given the support shown thus far.

I see the angle you're coming at this from, but I think you're making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill.

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08-17-2012, 02:53 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
What's embarrassing to me is that most here want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that the Jets are Manchester United, the Leafs the Yankees.
The reality is, we face very, very different challenges than those teams.
We have an equally passionate fan base and the membership works at many levels of football. Selling Jets memberships would be an added revenue stream and work well for those not on the waiting list or wanting to commit to the waitlist. It would be like charging $$$$ to be on the random ticket draw list.

How about Sheffield Wednesday as they are not even a top division team.

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Owls 2012-13 Membership

Owls Membership has been confirmed for the 2012/13 Championship season and will include a 2 discount for Adult Members at every home league game.

Members will also have a two-week priority period to buy home tickets before general sale.

Other Adult Membership benefits include second-tier priority on away tickets, 5 of WednesdayCard points to spend in the Owls Megastore, an ongoing loyalty points redemption scheme and a FREE innovative in-stadium matchday radio commentary earpiece.
http://www.swfc.co.uk/tickets/membership.aspx

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08-17-2012, 02:54 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
If anything, I think the opinions in this thread prove (to a certain extent anyway given it is understandably a very small sample size of people) that the fans could likely care less about the $50 charge for the waiting list. You can speak from your point of view in terms of business, and others in this thread can do the same, however, from what I can gather most understand that in order to run a successful business there are certain marketing areas that must be tapped into, this being one of them.

I don't think the passion and love for the game of Hockey and the Winnipeg Jets will ever leave the fans of Winnipeg, Manitoba. And as things stand right now, it appears as though economically speaking, residents of Winnipeg and Manitoba in general are doing just fine given the support shown thus far.

I see the angle you're coming at this from, but I think you're making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill.
It certainly wasn't my intention to make a mountain out of anything. In the grand scheme of things, it's not likely a big deal, but to me, it was a questionable decision.

I just enjoy discourse and debate.

I think you're largely right about the passion for hockey being ingrained in a large portion of Winnipeggers. I am just concerned that the reality of today's NHL business model may make the game inaccessible to a percentage of those people, and in a small market, that can lead to difficulties.

I'm not sure why the animosity, I'm enjoying hearing other view points and agree with a great many counter points raised in this thread. It's a good thing that people are so passionate about TNSE and the Jets though, I suppose.

Don't think for one second though, that the opinions represented on this message board mirror the general public. This is a hockey message board mainly for the die hards.

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08-17-2012, 02:56 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
We have an equally passionate fan base and the membership works at many levels of football. Selling Jets memberships would be an added revenue stream and work well for those not on the waiting list or wanting to commit to the waitlist. It would be like charging $$$$ to be on the random ticket draw list.

How about Sheffield Wednesday as they are not even a top division team.



http://www.swfc.co.uk/tickets/membership.aspx
Or a team like the Green Bay Packers. Although the NFL business model is obviously very different from the NHL.

At least you can draw some parallels with those teams though, and that's perfectly fair.

Although I know the Packers waiting list is free.. ;D

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08-17-2012, 03:00 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
It certainly wasn't my intention to make a mountain out of anything. In the grand scheme of things, it's not likely a big deal, but to me, it was a questionable decision.

I just enjoy discourse and debate.

I think you're largely right about the passion for hockey being ingrained in a large portion of Winnipeggers. I am just concerned that the reality of today's NHL business model may make the game inaccessible to a percentage of those people, and in a small market, that can lead to difficulties.

I'm not sure why the animosity, I'm enjoying hearing other view points and agree with a great many counter points raised in this thread. It's a good thing that people are so passionate about TNSE and the Jets though, I suppose.

Don't think for one second though, that the opinions represented on this message board mirror the general public. This is a hockey message board mainly for the die hards.
Perhaps you should go and ask the good residents of Green Bay how they feel about being charged NFL prices in their city of less than 300K. See how many of them will feel "alientated" and then will no longer become fans. Has that franchises "shine" and "newness" worn off yet?

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08-17-2012, 03:02 PM
  #143
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15,004 season ticket holders + 8,000 paid individual accounts on the waiting list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 guy complaining about a $50 list entrance fee

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08-17-2012, 03:05 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
It certainly wasn't my intention to make a mountain out of anything. In the grand scheme of things, it's not likely a big deal, but to me, it was a questionable decision.

I just enjoy discourse and debate.

I think you're largely right about the passion for hockey being ingrained in a large portion of Winnipeggers. I am just concerned that the reality of today's NHL business model may make the game inaccessible to a percentage of those people, and in a small market, that can lead to difficulties.

I'm not sure why the animosity, I'm enjoying hearing other view points and agree with a great many counter points raised in this thread. It's a good thing that people are so passionate about TNSE and the Jets though, I suppose.

Don't think for one second though, that the opinions represented on this message board mirror the general public. This is a hockey message board mainly for the die hards.
I just fail to see how your main issue in all of this conversation of charging $50 to get on the wait list is even remotely close to being a questionable decision by TNSE.

If you'd like to get into the nitty gritty details in regards to "Can the NHL work in Winnipeg long-term?", that's a whole new topic of discussion that nobody really knows. But, as things stand right now and by all indications will stand in the coming years, the NHL's business model is why Winnipeg was given back an NHL team. When Winnipeg left, the landscape of the NHL's economics was not suitable for Winnipeg - today and for the foreseeable future (for all we can realistically tell) they are.

I'd say at this point the NHL as a business is viable for Winnipeg and Winnipeg as a location is viable for the NHL. Even if Winnipeg is a smaller market team, I highly, highly, highly doubt Winnipeg becomes an issue in regards to business in comparison to half the NHL's teams right now or in the future. I think on a potential bad day for Winnipeg we may still be alright in comparison to half or 3/4 of the teams out there. I'm not worried.

Lastly, this gentleman makes a HUGE difference as a foundation, and I surely do not think he's going anywhere.



Honestly, I think Winnipeg will be absolutely fine. TNSE is a pretty top notch organization, beyond wealthy ownership, an ecstatic and passionate fanbase. I don't see the issue here, especially one in which your main beef in all of this is a $50 fee for a wait list that most NHL teams would dream to have.


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08-17-2012, 03:07 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Perhaps you should go and ask the good resident of Green Bay how they feel about being charged NFL prices in their city of less than 300K. See how many of them will feel "alientated" and then will no longer become fans. Has that franchises "shine" and "newness" worn off yet?
Nope. That team is incredibly successful. Of course season tickets for the Packers run a lot less than Jets tickets. Largely because of many fewer games and other large sources of revenue.

Football is a sport that's far less expensive.

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08-17-2012, 03:09 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
Although I know the Packers waiting list is free.. ;D
Which may explain why everyone and their dog is on that list from birth onwards.

I think what is not being taken into account here is that Winnipeggers have derived an interesting solution to the new economics of the NHL. Whereas those larger centers do indeed have a larger proportion of individuals who are more affluent and can afford to own pairs (or more) of season tickets on their own, people in Winnipeg worked around it.

I know I realistically cannot afford my P3's on my own so no matter how much I want to go to 45 home games a season it's not going to happen without negatively impacting my family. The solution? Groups of fans getting together to split seats. I think if you looked at it, you'd find that an awful lot of the seats don't have the same people in it every single game.

Where I sit there's only one pair of seats with the same guy consistently in them. The rest are either corporate and used promotionally, or they are shared, like mine are. Seven guys, gross annual income of about $400,000 probably (maybe more). No problems or impacts for anyone in the group. I've got ten games, costs me about $2000 a year. Split a couple with another guy in the group, make it to 12 a year.

I know more guys that were in groups that didn't get tickets than did. Those guys are on the wait list as a group, not an individual. They'll be able to afford it and that discount they get? They more than recoup their $50. It's just not an issue. Are there people on the list that can't afford it? Absolutely and hopefully they'll come to their senses.

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08-17-2012, 03:12 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
Nope. That team is incredibly successful. Of course season tickets for the Packers run a lot less than Jets tickets. Largely because of many fewer games and other large sources of revenue.

Football is a sport that's far less expensive.
My point is that as the smallest pro-sports market in North America, they are not intimidated at all from big league prices. We won't be either.

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08-17-2012, 03:18 PM
  #148
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I just fail to see how your main issue in all of this conversation of charging $50 to get on the wait list is even remotely close to being a questionable decision by TNSE.

If you'd like to get into the nitty gritty details in regards to "Can the NHL work in Winnipeg long-term?", that's a whole new topic of discussion that nobody really knows. But, as things stand right now and by all indications will stand in the coming years, the NHL's business model is why Winnipeg was given back an NHL team. When Winnipeg left, the landscape of the NHL's economics was not suitable for Winnipeg - today and for the foreseeable future (for all we can realistically tell) they are.

I'd say at this point the NHL as a business is viable for Winnipeg and Winnipeg as a location is viable for the NHL.
I'm not sure how you fail to see that. Maybe I'm not explaining it properly?

There are ~700k people in Winnipeg. Assume Canadians are crazy about hockey, so a large percentage of those people, maybe 50% are hockey fans, so 350k hockey fans, but many casual fans, or fans of other teams who will not attend all 40 games a year, so lets say 200k fans who would actually want to attend ~every game.

The median income in Winnipeg is about $70k. I'm thinking with our property values increasing recently, at 70k paying a mortgage, and feeding a family, there isn't money to drop ~8k on a pair of season tickets. I'm thinking about only the top 10% - 20% of income earners are interested in season tickets. That gives us 20-40k people to fill a 15k seat arena for 42 games a year.

The math works right now, but if the team doesn't improve, you lose some of those fans. If you anger or alienate some others, you lose them.

I'm just saying that realistically, you need to keep those 40k people as interested as possible in order to ensure the demand for tickets is there.

By the way, this is not meant to be scientific. Just using numbers to clarify my concern.

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08-17-2012, 03:21 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
My point is that as the smallest pro-sports market in North America, they are not intimidated at all from big league prices. We won't be either.
And I don't think we should be.

But TSNE is foolhardy if they don't identify and deal with the concerns that come from existing in a small market. We can't just emulate the practices of the Leafs, Penguins, Bruins, or other major market teams.

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08-17-2012, 03:30 PM
  #150
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I see you concerns cneely and I understand the angle you're coming at this with, but I just think you're looking far too deep into it. These things could be said for many NHL franchises. It's just the way it is. Every local has it's downfalls, obstacles and deficiencies whether it be lack of interest in the game itself, poor economy, poorly run organizations in terms of on-ice product, poorly run organizations in terms of off-ice product, lack of money from ownership, etc. The list goes on and on.

Again, I think you're looking at this in more of a "Can the NHL work in Winnipeg long-term?", when your initial issue was "How dare they charge $50 to be on the 8k waitlist".

I don't see at all how charging $50 to be on the waitlist is in any way, shape or form detrimental. As I said earlier, given the supply and demand, in terms of business I think it would be absolutely illogical to not tap into that resource.

Will the NHL work in Winnipeg long-term? I don't know. I hope so. I think so. But at the end of the day, I don't know. I also think 3/4 of the leagues teams could say the same thing.

I'm not worried.

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