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Free Agency & General Offseason Thread Part IV: Will there be NHL hockey this year?

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Old
08-22-2012, 04:06 PM
  #251
trentmccleary
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I can't help but compare all the things said about 22yo Turris last year to 23yo Regin a few seasons back.

I'd wait for him to show a lot more before throwing out the 30 goal, 60 point projections.

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08-22-2012, 04:23 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
I can't help but compare all the things said about 22yo Turris last year to 23yo Regin a few seasons back.

I'd wait for him to show a lot more before throwing out the 30 goal, 60 point projections.
You're not still ******** over the Rundblad thing are you?

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08-22-2012, 04:25 PM
  #253
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Turris and Regin are not comparable in any way aside from the fact they are/were Ottawa Senators. Being on the same team, under different coaches, is an extremely easy but also extremely poor means of comparison.

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08-22-2012, 04:46 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Turris and Regin are not comparable in any way aside from the fact they are/were Ottawa Senators. Being on the same team, under different coaches, is an extremely easy but also extremely poor means of comparison.
Regin has had injury problems as well. The one year you can say Regin was truly bad was the year CCC sucked all the life out of the team.

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08-22-2012, 04:50 PM
  #255
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Just as Edmonton is getting close to off the hook with Hemsky, they sign Taylor Hall to way too long of a term for too much money.

Now the money might be a fair wage in another year or two, but it's overpayment right now vs actual production. When he plays he excels, but hes injury prone, and who knows if that will ever change. I would have given him a prove you can stay healthy contract of 2-3 years before I committed to that contract he just got...

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08-22-2012, 04:54 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
I can't help but compare all the things said about 22yo Turris last year to 23yo Regin a few seasons back.

I'd wait for him to show a lot more before throwing out the 30 goal, 60 point projections.
i didn't see that i think the 45 point plus is a place he needs to be to be our #2 center TBH.

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08-22-2012, 05:06 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
You're not still ******** over the Rundblad thing are you?
No, that conversation is over.

Do you realize how much further ahead Yashin, Hossa, Havlat, Spezza and now Karlsson were in their careers?

Yet, I read everyday here how Turris is going to become a star?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Turris and Regin are not comparable in any way aside from the fact they are/were Ottawa Senators. Being on the same team, under different coaches, is an extremely easy but also extremely poor means of comparison.
Yeah right.
Regin scored just as much as Turris in his rookie season while getting just as much ice time because he played on the 4th line for much of that season. He got at times mid-late in the season because he started getting top-6 ice time, when he posted a handful of hot streaks which people projected into full seasons.

Turris has played limited minutes for 2 full seasons before being handed a 2nd line role this year and even then... everybody constantly discounts the 6 games he played with Phoenix. Not only that, they use his lack of training camp as an excuse despite the fact that his one hot streak with us (13 points/16 games) occurred in his first 16 games with us.

All the talk 3 years ago was the strong wrist shot that Regin had that would allow him to score a bunch of goals after the Pittsburgh series. He's also a very smart 2-way player, who works hard, but isn't physical and is a very agile skater (without overwhelming straight ahead speed).

Turris is on the perimeter too much to score 30 goals and he hasn't shown that he's all that great at finding dead areas of the ice.

Regardless, if you're claiming that he's going to be a star in this day and age; then you need to compare him to guys like Yashin, Hossa, Havlat, Spezza and Karlsson.

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08-22-2012, 05:14 PM
  #258
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I think Turris is definentely a pass first player. Would I be surprised if he scored 30 one day? Probably not, but I see him as a two way 20/40 player.

I think if Regin was healthy, I think his max upside would be 20/20 or 20/30. With that said, I think Regin is getting a little underrated. Not counting the Pitt series, I think he's been pretty steady.

Overall, they play similar, look similar, and are similar size, but Turris has more offensive upside IMO (but not by much)

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08-22-2012, 05:15 PM
  #259
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Nothing there makes the comparison any less fundamentally flawed.

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08-22-2012, 05:17 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derriko View Post
Just as Edmonton is getting close to off the hook with Hemsky, they sign Taylor Hall to way too long of a term for too much money.

Now the money might be a fair wage in another year or two, but it's overpayment right now vs actual production. When he plays he excels, but hes injury prone, and who knows if that will ever change. I would have given him a prove you can stay healthy contract of 2-3 years before I committed to that contract he just got...
It should be fair to note that this contract signing is an extension. Hall is still finishing off his ELC and will only have a cap hit of 3.75M this season.

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08-22-2012, 05:19 PM
  #261
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As far as I'm concerned, in terms of what they've been able to show in the NHL thus far, the only difference I see at this point in time is their draft order.

That's what is interesting about this upcoming season, if it were to happen.

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08-22-2012, 06:03 PM
  #262
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Seems like a lock-out is inevitable at this point. Both sides can't even stand to talk for more than a few hours at a time. So friggin' ridiculous.

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08-22-2012, 06:24 PM
  #263
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The thing with Turris is that last season, he was playing the role of shutdown center for us along with his 2nd line role. Not only that, according to all the advanced stats, he actually excelled in that role as well. While playing with Alfie helped, Turris certainly wasn't a passenger in that situation and I have no problems with Turris' production in the 2nd line center position if he continues to provide the kind of defensive contributions he has.

Just needs to work on his faceoffs, if he's going to continue in that role though.

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08-22-2012, 06:33 PM
  #264
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"Well this ONE player didn't excel after a barely comparable season, so there's NO way this other guy will"

I'm so happy to hear this argument for the 50th time.

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08-22-2012, 06:39 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post

Regardless, if you're claiming that he's going to be a star in this day and age; then you need to compare him to guys like Yashin, Hossa, Havlat, Spezza and Karlsson.
But certainly not Patrick Sharp, Daniel Sedin, Martin St Louis, Jason Pominville, Loui Eriksson, Zach Parise, Henrik Zetterburg, Scott Hartnell, Jarome Iginla... I.E all guys in the top 30 in scoring who hardly outperformed Turris at this point in their careers.

You are saying nothing, you re just making broad, sweeping claims that can't hold their own weight.

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08-22-2012, 06:43 PM
  #266
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I see more ability in Turris than Regin. More jam too.

As for 50 points ending the debate as to whether he is a top 6 fwd or not... I guess you missed the Mike Fisher years.

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08-22-2012, 06:46 PM
  #267
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Regin and Turris aren't even close in comparison. Regin doesn't have half the offensive talent that Turris does. The only thing he has over Turris is that he has more injuries.

I think with a full offseason where Turris knows where he is going to be, he feels safe, wanted he is going to come in camp in great shape and be ready to be more productive offensively this year. Should help him that he will have an actual winger on his left side this year.

One more injury or an unproductive season for Regin and his NHL career is over. Hhe's very close to that.

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08-22-2012, 06:55 PM
  #268
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Wouldn't it be a success if Turris reaches about 60 points at one point in his career? His last seasons pace over the entire year would be an accomplishment for this season even if it's borderline 2nd line performance.

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08-22-2012, 09:01 PM
  #269
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If everything goes perfect for Turris: healthy and good linemates, I think he could hit 60 points. Not next year but he's got great vision, a good wrister and solid defensively: there isn't much to complain about him.

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08-22-2012, 09:06 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Wouldn't it be a success if Turris reaches about 60 points at one point in his career? His last seasons pace over the entire year would be an accomplishment for this season even if it's borderline 2nd line performance.
Depends on the line-mates. Michalek on most cup contending teams would be on the 2nd line. If Turris was centering Michalek and Alfie/Silf I think 50-60 points would be within stretch.

Hoping Latendresse can finally have a relatively healthy season...I could see our 2nd line light it up if all goes well.

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08-22-2012, 11:09 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
The thing with Turris is that last season, he was playing the role of shutdown center for us along with his 2nd line role. Not only that, according to all the advanced stats, he actually excelled in that role as well. While playing with Alfie helped, Turris certainly wasn't a passenger in that situation and I have no problems with Turris' production in the 2nd line center position if he continues to provide the kind of defensive contributions he has.

Just needs to work on his faceoffs, if he's going to continue in that role though.
Ottawa didn't have a shutdown line. Behindthenet will back this up with their stats... 1) small(er) ranger between Ottawa forwards than most teams, 2) the lines that faced the best competition, were simply the ones that played the most.

Spezza, Michalek and Greening faced tougher competition than Turris did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
"Well this ONE player didn't excel after a barely comparable season, so there's NO way this other guy will"

I'm so happy to hear this argument for the 50th time.
Nope.

People here jumped the gun and pronounced this guy, that guy and the other guy superstars prematurely based on a small sample of games. Turris hasn't done anything more than they ever did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
But certainly not Patrick Sharp, Daniel Sedin, Martin St Louis, Jason Pominville, Loui Eriksson, Zach Parise, Henrik Zetterburg, Scott Hartnell, Jarome Iginla... I.E all guys in the top 30 in scoring who hardly outperformed Turris at this point in their careers.

You are saying nothing, you re just making broad, sweeping claims that can't hold their own weight.
Daniel Sedin was behind the West Coast Coast Express for ice time.
Scott Hartnell is an all-round complimentary player. His production is dependent on others.

St.Louis and Sharp were never expected to make the NHL. If you're using their careers to argue that everything is possible, then we might as well wait for Robbie Baillergeon to lead us to the Stanley Cup.

Iginla had a 50 point rookie season at 19yo.
Parise had a 62 point sophomore season at 22yo.
Zetterberg had 43 pts / 61 gp at 22yo.

Pominville had 68 points at 23yo.
Eriksson had 63 points at 23yo.

1st Round picks who wind up doing something with their careers, are greatly outdoing what Turris has done thus far in their careers.

Quote:
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As for 50 points ending the debate as to whether he is a top 6 fwd or not... I guess you missed the Mike Fisher years.
From 2005 to 2010, Fisher was the 2nd line center for 5 full seasons and was on pace for full season paces of; 58, 55, 53, 49 and 34 point seasons. The 34 point pace season was the one in which Hartsburg decided that we needed to run the most predictable junior lever breakout strategy possible.

Fisher's productivity was obscured by his injuries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
I see more ability in Turris than Regin. More jam too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB View Post
Regin and Turris aren't even close in comparison. Regin doesn't have half the offensive talent that Turris does.
Explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Wouldn't it be a success if Turris reaches about 60 points at one point in his career? His last seasons pace over the entire year would be an accomplishment for this season even if it's borderline 2nd line performance.
If he does it once, he'll reach the Todd White / Antoine Vermette career that I predict for him.

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Old
08-22-2012, 11:24 PM
  #272
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I think the biggest reason for optimism with Turris is that he missed training camp last year (even though I don't agree with his reasons for doing so). Remember how much that hurt Kuba and Foligno 2 season ago, and how well they bounced back the next season? Lets hope for the same with Turris.

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08-22-2012, 11:28 PM
  #273
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I think the biggest reason for optimism with Turris is that he missed training camp last year (even though I don't agree with his reasons for doing so). Remember how much that hurt Kuba and Foligno 2 season ago, and how well they bounced back the next season? Lets hope for the same with Turris.
Kuba had back surgery and then broke his leg. Missing training camp was the least of his worries.

Didn't Foligno light up training camp and then score 1 goal in 30 games to start the 2010-11 season?

Turris missed training camp, played 6 games with the Coyotes and then scored 13 points in 16 games with us. I think he got over missing training camp.

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08-23-2012, 12:37 AM
  #274
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Really confused about AK.

Is he holding out for a figure, lacking any interest whatsoever, waiting until CBA stuff gets figured out, or what?

Doan and Kostitsyn are both free agents that are really big difference makers.

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08-23-2012, 12:41 AM
  #275
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Really confused about AK.

Is he holding out for a figure, lacking any interest whatsoever, waiting until CBA stuff gets figured out, or what?

Doan and Kostitsyn are both free agents that are really big difference makers.
oh AK is a difference maker alright... but not in a good way.

As for Doan he has a $30M offer from Buff... he aint coming to Ott no matter what

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