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Free Agency & General Offseason Thread Part IV: Will there be NHL hockey this year?

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Old
09-04-2012, 04:03 PM
  #901
WasTeD
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I love Horton charging at him and almost wrecking Marchand

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09-04-2012, 05:09 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Collins View Post
Landeskog just became the youngest captain in NHL history.

Damn that winning streak at the end of the 2011 season sucked
That, and I really think that if Murray wanted him, he could have paid a price of the two 1st for him. A damn shame he didn't.

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A lot of our fans didn't wanna spend 2nd overall on a grinder though.
Yup. Can't believe some people didn't like this guy or thought he had any offensive upside.

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09-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #903
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That, and I really think that if Murray wanted him, he could have paid a price of the two 1st for him. A damn shame he didn't.



Yup. Can't believe some people didn't like this guy or thought he had any offensive upside.
Seriously doubt this.....

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Old
09-04-2012, 05:17 PM
  #904
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naming a 19 year old as your captain is dumb imo

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Old
09-04-2012, 05:34 PM
  #905
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naming a 19 year old as your captain is dumb imo
Ya look how 21 year old Yzerman turned out and Crosby at 19....

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Old
09-04-2012, 05:38 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by CelticSenator View Post
Ya look how 21 year old Yzerman turned out and Crosby at 19....
Both plugs...


I never thought Lando would be the guy to become the youngest captain in NHL history..

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Old
09-04-2012, 06:25 PM
  #907
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We were so cloe to drafting him, yet so far

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Old
09-04-2012, 06:39 PM
  #908
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Lando was captain of Kitchener at 17. Not quite the same but it shows you his leadership abilities. Getting captain at that age over over agers etc is a big deal.

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09-04-2012, 07:25 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by CelticSenator View Post
Ya look how 21 year old Yzerman turned out and Crosby at 19....
I thought Crosby was a pretty lousy captain at 19, and that the pens would have been better served to make Roberts the Captain and Mentor Crosby for an extra year or 2. It certainly would not have hurt, and could have paid dividends.

Just my opinion.

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Old
09-04-2012, 07:54 PM
  #910
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could also kill his development

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Old
09-04-2012, 09:14 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Woah. No. No no no.

YOU said on the last page that +/- is a valid way of determining a player's skill. You even challenged that idea here:


I ask: Meszaros, by your own method, was an absolute STAR player in 2005/06. And he was an absolute bum in 2006-07. And he sort of just... broke even the next year. And by YOUR method, Meszaros was an absolute stud for the Flyers 2 year ago. This year, he was awful by comparison right up until he hurt his back. And he was terribad with the Lightning.

If +/- has ANY validity outside of being an extreme fringe stat, you should have a very valid explanation for why Meszaros's +/- is literally all over the map.

I can wait.
Not a player's skill... his two-way contributions.

Meszaros was NOT a star in 2005-06... for the billionth time, you need to adjust to the team (he played on a very good one), and his competition (he played against 3rd and 4th lines). All his numbers suggest is that he could take on more responsibility than a 3rd pair D. Which he could.

The numbers only go back to 2007-08, so I can't make a proper analysis... but looking at 2007-08 and combining all my favorite numbers (including +/-), I conclude that Redden, Phillips and Volchenkov were better than Meszaros.

Which makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Yes, it does go both ways, which throws off the validity of the stat when you try to use it to assess a player's skill. That was my point. You're agreeing with me here but at the same time disagreeing with me.

It's the consensus worst stat in hockey for player evaluation (besides perhaps Wins as an assessment of goaltending skill).

You even agree with this. By admitting that 'you need to contextualize +/- by looking at Corsi, QualComp, and other stats' you're essentially saying '+/- is useless by itself'
Agreed, it's pretty much useless by itself. Jacob Josefson had a terrific +/- per ice time... one of the very best in the league. But I'm not sitting here claiming he's a top 6 forward.

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Old
09-04-2012, 10:03 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Meszaros was NOT a star in 2005-06...
So Meszaros, who was 2nd overall on the entire team in +/- in 2005/06, and Redden's D-partner, was not a star.

OK, so you're admitting that +/- is not a good indicator of success. Good.

I'm glad we're on the same page. Feels good, doesn't it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
All his numbers suggest is that he could take on more responsibility than a 3rd pair D. Which he could.
His D-partner was Redden that year. We're talking "pre-sucks" Redden, when he was good. You might want to re-think that "3rd pair" comment.

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Old
09-04-2012, 10:04 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
That, and I really think that if Murray wanted him, he could have paid a price of the two 1st for him. A damn shame he didn't.
We had people posting offers of Michalek and the 6th overall. That was ****ing insane and will prove to be insane into the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB View Post
Yup. Can't believe some people didn't like this guy or thought he had any offensive upside.
It will take a while to gauge what his offensive peak will be. Everybody already knew that he was built like a man and would be the most NHL ready player from 2011.

As an extreme example, Arnott's 18yo rookie season is still one of his best.

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Old
09-04-2012, 11:24 PM
  #914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
So Meszaros, who was 2nd overall on the entire team in +/- in 2005/06, and Redden's D-partner, was not a star.

OK, so you're admitting that +/- is not a good indicator of success. Good.

I'm glad we're on the same page. Feels good, doesn't it?




His D-partner was Redden that year. We're talking "pre-sucks" Redden, when he was good. You might want to re-think that "3rd pair" comment.
You ignored half my post, once again ignoring context


And the pairings were

Phillips - Chara
Redden - Volchenkov
Meszaros - Pothier
Schubert


You're wrong on all counts

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Old
09-05-2012, 12:01 AM
  #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
You ignored half my post, once again ignoring context


And the pairings were

Phillips - Chara
Redden - Volchenkov
Meszaros - Pothier
Schubert


You're wrong on all counts
For most of the season and playoffs it was Redden with Meszaros, he's not wrong on that.

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Old
09-05-2012, 12:43 AM
  #916
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Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
For most of the season and playoffs it was Redden with Meszaros, he's not wrong on that.
No. Meszaros and Volchenkov weren't swapped until very late in the season and you have to realize that Redden, Chara and Phillips barely played through March of that year.

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Old
09-05-2012, 12:49 AM
  #917
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
No. Meszaros and Volchenkov weren't swapped until very late in the season and you have to realize that Redden, Chara and Phillips barely played through March of that year.
This.

2006-07 saw the birth of Christon Philchenkov, and thus Redden - Meszaros.

It was Redden - Volchenkov most of the season.

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Old
09-05-2012, 01:16 AM
  #918
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
You ignored half my post, once again ignoring context
So you are saying that +/- is useless unless you have a lot of context that reinforces the stat.

So what you are saying is that it's a useless stat, unless other stats that say exactly the same thing can back it up.

So what you are saying is that my previous assertion that it's the OTHER stats that are useful, and not +/- itself, is correct. It's the context that's important, not the +/-.


Alright, cool. I'm with you. Glad we're copacetic on this one.

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Old
09-05-2012, 07:39 AM
  #919
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Originally Posted by CelticSenator View Post
Ya look how 21 year old Yzerman turned out and Crosby at 19....
Both were the best players on their teams and there were few, if any, other long-term options. Lando isn't (he may turn out to be but he isn't right now). And they have other options, Stastny, EJ, Duchy.

I'm not saying Lando will make a bad captain. I'm saying for DET/PIT it was the clear and best option for the team. For COL, the press boost comes into it a little.

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Old
09-05-2012, 09:16 AM
  #920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
So you are saying that +/- is useless unless you have a lot of context that reinforces the stat.

So what you are saying is that it's a useless stat, unless other stats that say exactly the same thing can back it up.

So what you are saying is that my previous assertion that it's the OTHER stats that are useful, and not +/- itself, is correct. It's the context that's important, not the +/-.


Alright, cool. I'm with you. Glad we're copacetic on this one.
yahuh.

What I'm saying is that if you have the highest +/- on your team, the highest QoC on your team, the highest Corsi on your team, the lowest % of offensive starts on your team and a crazy high takeaway number (Marcel Goc), then you are a God amongst men.

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Old
09-05-2012, 09:17 AM
  #921
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Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
Both were the best players on their teams and there were few, if any, other long-term options. Lando isn't (he may turn out to be but he isn't right now). And they have other options, Stastny, EJ, Duchy.

I'm not saying Lando will make a bad captain. I'm saying for DET/PIT it was the clear and best option for the team. For COL, the press boost comes into it a little.
Lando is by far the best player on that team. He was last year anyway.

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Old
09-05-2012, 09:22 AM
  #922
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Originally Posted by CelticSenator View Post
Ya look how 21 year old Yzerman turned out and Crosby at 19....
yup cause 19 and 21 are totally the same thing....

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Old
09-05-2012, 10:41 AM
  #923
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Toews anyone?? He won a cup as well...

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Old
09-05-2012, 11:13 AM
  #924
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Originally Posted by Praise Alfie View Post
that is more hypnotic than boobs on a trampoline.
Its good but it isnt that good Although I wont have any issues seeing boobs this fall the same cant be said about NHL hockey.

That gif is a great example of why Karlsson is a lot better defensively then most people outside of Ottawa give him credit for.

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Old
09-05-2012, 01:42 PM
  #925
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Karlsson is a lot better defensively then most people outside of Ottawa give him credit for.
If it wasn't for his great partner Kuba, the gif would never happen, just saying.
The more full clip:

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