I agree that KH probably has a structure he wants to maintain, which perhaps I agree with more for the lower end guys. I go worry when he tries to do that with the top end when he's going after elite UFAs.
As for dangling Abby, wouldn't his value be greater if he were signed?
If we weren't in the running for the guy we really wanted, and was out of the race early, I'd be more concerned. As it is, we lost out to family. We can go back and forth about how if maybe the Wings had offered more Suter would have changed his mind, but I don't see it.
With Abby, I think it depends on the deal. We might be fine signing him up a bit cheaper for a year, someone else might want to throw more money at him and wrap him up for four or five years. I can see both options being appealing and it depends who we're looking to deal with.
There's no sense in this comment and some other comments here which somehow dislike Abdelkader. Abdelkader is an important asset for the Red Wings, period. I just can't believe what I'm reading here.
well, is he on the team because he is a important asset or just because we have nothing better to offer.
this guys is not hitting, he is trying to hit.
this guy is not fighting, he ist trying to fight.
this guys is not playing hockey, he is trying to play.
at least he is trying. but do that in school and you can repeat the last class.
just trying not to fail is not good enough when other team simply not fail. same counts for ken holland. why does everybody compare our player only to other player of our team. aren't there 29 other teams out there we have to beat? put our 4th line vs the kings 4th and we get destroyed. so it doesnt matter wether gator is a better player then some ahl guys we have. if he cant beat the 4th line guys of other teams he is just failing.
the only thing what counts is the result. and almost every player in the nhl and ahl can achieve the same results of gator. he is just an expendable.
A couple summers ago, Babs was pumping up Abby's tires, talking about how he was going to be the third line center, relegated Helm to the 4th line...... which made me lose my cool..... but now Helm is the core player is Abby is dirt. (Not saying this is your position, but the general overtone on the board.)
A couple of years ago is a long time in hockey years though. Players' games develop differently.
Abby isn't dirt by no means, but he's developed into a secondary piece. Which player would be more difficult to replace and which player would Detroit least like to lose? I think the answer would be obvious. Abby can be an effective grinding bottom 6 winger (still has shown a better game on the the wing than in the middle), but Helm has an elite talent (speed) that allows him to have a bigger impact on the game shift after shift. When Helm was absent last year, the lack of speed (compared to when he's on the ice) in the bottom 6 was painfully obvious.
Abdelkader is an important asset for the Red Wings, period. I just can't believe what I'm reading here.
Team management wants to build this team harder to play against and build a physical 4th line. Signing Tootoo and letting Abdelkader walk DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE in the
I don't agree. No one has mentioned yet that Tootoo is easily the faster and more technically skilled skater. He finishess his hits down low as opposed to easily being sidestepped and bouncing off the glass.
Tootoo can also fight instead of being a punching bag
He lead all forwards on the team by over 50 hits and was ranked in the top 50 in the league so either you have a different opinion than the NHL on what constitutes a hit or you're just incorrect on that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fimoknete
this guy is not fighting, he ist trying to fight.
Agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by fimoknete
this guys is not playing hockey, he is trying to play.
Abdelkader put up more points than the LA Kings entire 4th line combined, offensively he's one of the better 4th liners in the league.
That's not what I said. He's not a fighter, along the lines of a Parros or guy you'd designate as your enforcer. Shanny could fight too, but does that mean he was the team enforcer?
Tootoo is an agitator and a guy that tries to get under everyone's skin, off their game. I think this a big difference.
That's not what I said. He's not a fighter, along the lines of a Parros or guy you'd designate as your enforcer. Shanny could fight too, but does that mean he was the team enforcer?
Tootoo is an agitator and a guy that tries to get under everyone's skin, off their game. I think this a big difference.
I didn't say he was an "enforcer". I said he can fight, and he can. We haven't had an 'enforcer' since Downey chickened out against a Buffalo goon in the pre season a few years ago and got cut.
Last edited by RaySheppard: 08-12-2012 at 03:17 AM.
He demonstrated very well last season that he's nearly useless at center.
Yes. As well as crippiling the the team in the playoffs with the most idiotic of penalties at the worst possible times, the last couple of years. The guy is an AHL player. Buh Bye punching bag.
He demonstrated very well last season that he's nearly useless at center.
20+ points, +4 and won 52.9% of his faceoffs while taking the fourth most faceoffs on the team. We might like him more at wing, but the guy held his own at center for the bulk of the regular season.
Yes. As well as crippiling the the team in the playoffs with the most idiotic of penalties at the worst possible times, the last couple of years. The guy is an AHL player. Buh Bye punching bag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
20+ points, +4 and won 52.9% of his faceoffs while taking the fourth most faceoffs on the team. We might like him more at wing, but the guy held his own at center for the bulk of the regular season.
Abby is a fine player. He has as much or more points than most fourth liners, and his linemates have mediocre his entire NHL career. He has spent time centering May, Emmerton, Maltby, etc. and has managed to keep those lines passable. Abby is a complementary player. He has good vision and puck control, but he cannot control the play himself. Having the aforementioned players on his line hasn't helped his play.
Abby drew more penalties than he took last season. Watch the entire game, and you will see this happen.
Abby losing a fight to Clowe and others isn't his fault, it's the Wings fault. He is the only player that the opposing team will go after because he is the only player that will stand up for himself and his team every game. Do you think the Bruins would let Clowe fight Kelly (who fights ~3 times a season)? Why do you think Thornton would step in for any teammate?
Abby does fine fighting players like Ott, Lapierre, Perry, etc. He isn't supposed to be fighting Clowe, but he does it for himself and for the team.
well, is he on the team because he is a important asset or just because we have nothing better to offer.
this guys is not hitting, he is trying to hit.
this guy is not fighting, he ist trying to fight.
this guys is not playing hockey, he is trying to play.
at least he is trying. but do that in school and you can repeat the last class.
just trying not to fail is not good enough when other team simply not fail. same counts for ken holland. why does everybody compare our player only to other player of our team. aren't there 29 other teams out there we have to beat? put our 4th line vs the kings 4th and we get destroyed. so it doesnt matter wether gator is a better player then some ahl guys we have. if he cant beat the 4th line guys of other teams he is just failing.
the only thing what counts is the result. and almost every player in the nhl and ahl can achieve the same results of gator. he is just an expendable.
In what dimension are Lewis, Fraser, Nolan, Clifford, Westgarth better than Abby? Would you prefer Lewis' 7 points in 72 games? Fraser's 8 points in 67 games? They were both minus players as well.
Who on the Kings fourth line scored more points than Abby last season? None.
Bertuzzi, Ericsson, Miller, Datsyuk has sneaky hitting ability, Smith plays a physical game too, etc.
Helm and Zetterberg were only 1-3% lower than Abdelkader and took waaay more draws than he did
The stat is inaccurate and misleading, but Tootoo will hit that mark again.
Quite a few... For around his asking price or less too.
Everyone on the Wings can hit, but they don't hit enough. One or two big hits a season do not wear down other teams, consistently hitting does. If you think the Wings are physical enough, that's fine, but they are not a physical team when you consider the 29 other NHL teams. Less than 100 hits per season is not enough for a physical player.
They took more draws, but they weren't as successful. Further, you need 4 centers on an NHL team, not three. If ~500 is too small a sample size, I don't know what to tell you. Abby is good at FO's, even if he excels at wing.
Hits might not be a perfect stat, but all are determined by the same person each game. Having Abby and Tootoo makes the team more physical, having one leaves the Wings as soft as they have been.
Please inform me on the players signed this off-season who had 150+ hits, postive +-, play PK, have 50%+ FO, fight MW's, and have 20+ points for under $2 million.
In what dimension are Lewis, Fraser, Nolan, Clifford, Westgarth better than Abby? Would you prefer Lewis' 7 points in 72 games? Fraser's 8 points in 67 games? They were both minus players as well.
Who on the Kings fourth line scored more points than Abby last season? None.
