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It's August -- Why is Abdelkader Still Unsigned? (Signed to 4-yr deal, $1.7M per)

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Old
09-14-2012, 02:08 AM
  #176
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He still sucks. Ah well.

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Old
09-14-2012, 08:44 AM
  #177
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I don't hate this Abby is okay by me.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:43 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
I've never liked Abdelkader, so I'm not happy about this. As someone else said, he's "fake tough" and he has no clue how to agitate, while not being a particularly good checker.

I'm praying to god that Tootoo can teach him a thing or two about fighting and/or agitating.
Agitating? For sure. Fighting? I wouldn't expect too much. Tootoo's fighting ability has never been off-the-charts. When he was able to get the upper hand against bigger guys it was because of his energy and anger. Considering he is a relatively small guy he is often fighting bigger guys, but he just doesn't seem to have that same passion for fighting that he had a few years ago. Maybe he gets it back in Detroit. We'll see.

I still wouldn't try to make him mad, though.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:20 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Agitating? For sure. Fighting? I wouldn't expect too much. Tootoo's fighting ability has never been off-the-charts. When he was able to get the upper hand against bigger guys it was because of his energy and anger. Considering he is a relatively small guy he is often fighting bigger guys, but he just doesn't seem to have that same passion for fighting that he had a few years ago. Maybe he gets it back in Detroit. We'll see.

I still wouldn't try to make him mad, though.
Tootoos a pretty damn good fighter and talked about as one of the toughest pound for pound in the league.

Good to have him and Abdelkader locked up for a while though, see some toughness on the bottom lines and get to listen to all the soft hockey lovers whine some more

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Old
09-15-2012, 06:13 PM
  #180
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Great news! People have to realize that he's a 4th liner and one of the best too.

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Old
09-15-2012, 06:31 PM
  #181
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Great news! People have to realize that he's a 4th liner and one of the best too.
We're paying an awful lot of money to 4th liners.

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Old
09-15-2012, 06:43 PM
  #182
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Abdelkader's making about $500k too much.

That said, he can still en up being worth his deal. He's a better player than Bertuzzi, and he's making less.

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Old
09-15-2012, 07:32 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
He's a better player than Bertuzzi, and he's making less.
I really don't like Bertuzzi, at all, but that is ridiculous. Bertuzzi has more talent in his left thumb than Abdelkader.

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Old
09-15-2012, 07:56 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I really don't like Bertuzzi, at all, but that is ridiculous. Bertuzzi has more talent in his left thumb than Abdelkader.
Think about it for a second.

Abdelkader played under 11 minutes ES per game last year and scored 8-14-22. Bertuzzi played around 14 and scored 14-20-34. On the PP, Abby saw almost no time while Bertuzzi saw better than a minute and a half. Bert had no PP goals and 4 PP assists.

So add about a third of Abdelkader's scoring to make up that ES time difference, and he has 11-19-30. Not far off from Bert's numbers. But the real clincher?

Abdelkader was doing this playing on the third and fourth lines, with Emmerton, Holmstrom, Helm, Miller, etc. Bertuzzi spent most of the year with Datsyuk and Franzen. Abdelkader is a solid defensive player and PKer while Bert is a liability.

Abdelkader is better than Bertuzzi.

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Old
09-15-2012, 08:07 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Think about it for a second.

Abdelkader played under 11 minutes ES per game last year and scored 8-14-22. Bertuzzi played around 14 and scored 14-20-34. On the PP, Abby saw almost no time while Bertuzzi saw better than a minute and a half. Bert had no PP goals and 4 PP assists.

So add about a third of Abdelkader's scoring to make up that ES time difference, and he has 11-19-30. Not far off from Bert's numbers. But the real clincher?

Abdelkader was doing this playing on the third and fourth lines, with Emmerton, Holmstrom, Helm, Miller, etc. Bertuzzi spent most of the year with Datsyuk and Franzen. Abdelkader is a solid defensive player and PKer while Bert is a liability.

Abdelkader is better than Bertuzzi.
I know you are obsessed with stats, and draw almost all of your conclusions off them, trying to extrapolate and make linear conclusions. But, think about it for a second. Bertuzzi was an elite power forward and player at one time. He has deteriorated yes, BUT WHEN YOU WATCH Bertuzzi and Abdelakder play, you can still tell Bertuzzi has way more hockey sense and skill then Abdelkader ever will. There is a reason why Datsyuk likes playing with him. If you acutally think Abelkader is better than Bertuzzi, I can't even have a serious conversation with you.

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Old
09-15-2012, 08:23 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Think about it for a second.

Abdelkader played under 11 minutes ES per game last year and scored 8-14-22. Bertuzzi played around 14 and scored 14-20-34. On the PP, Abby saw almost no time while Bertuzzi saw better than a minute and a half. Bert had no PP goals and 4 PP assists.

So add about a third of Abdelkader's scoring to make up that ES time difference, and he has 11-19-30. Not far off from Bert's numbers. But the real clincher?

Abdelkader was doing this playing on the third and fourth lines, with Emmerton, Holmstrom, Helm, Miller, etc. Bertuzzi spent most of the year with Datsyuk and Franzen. Abdelkader is a solid defensive player and PKer while Bert is a liability.

Abdelkader is better than Bertuzzi.
This isn't a video game. Gator has hands of stone. He isn't going to magically know how to not suck at offense with more ice time.

Todd bertuzzi is the better hockey player.

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Old
09-15-2012, 08:34 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Abdelkader's making about $500k too much.

That said, he can still en up being worth his deal. He's a better player than Bertuzzi, and he's making less.
Not even close

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Old
09-15-2012, 09:54 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I know you are obsessed with stats, and draw almost all of your conclusions off them, trying to extrapolate and make linear conclusions. But, think about it for a second. Bertuzzi was an elite power forward and player at one time. He has deteriorated yes, BUT WHEN YOU WATCH Bertuzzi and Abdelakder play, you can still tell Bertuzzi has way more hockey sense and skill then Abdelkader ever will. There is a reason why Datsyuk likes playing with him. If you acutally think Abelkader is better than Bertuzzi, I can't even have a serious conversation with you.
Bertuzzi was a good player whose numbers wer inflated by playing with an offensively skilled defensive center and a dominant offensive player in Markus Naslund who was an excellent goal scorer and a very good playmaker. Bertuzzi was added to that line to give it size and toughness. His resulting scoring was "accidental" and went away after he left Vancouver, aside from a 7-game/7-point stint in Florida with a 91-point Olli Jokinen.

In the five seasons since then, Bertuzzi's 82-game pace has gone from 54 down to 43. Always on the first or second line and PP unit. What could Abdelkader do if he were Datsyuk's winger and played the PP?

I've never been Abdelkader's biggest fan, but he's a useful player who can be moved up and down the lineup. The only reasons I can seriously think of that puts Bertuzzi on the team because Datsyuk said he likes him, or because he fought in the playoffs. Nothing play-related that justifies his contract or his being on the team. He's not a bottom-sixer, and his being on the team causes a lot of roster issues. It's like Holmstrom except Holmstrom had a purpose; he was incredibly effective on the PP. Bertuzzi isn't.

If Bertuzzi wasn't retained, and the Wings' lineup looked as it does otherwise minus him, assume Eaves to LTIR and you could have this as your forward lineup:

Nyquist/Datsyuk/Brunner
Filppula/Zetterberg/Franzen
Cleary/Helm/Samuelsson
Miller/Abby/Tootoo
Emmerton/Mursak

If you want, bring in Tatar and you can have:

Nyquist/Datsyuk/Brunner
Franzen/Zetterberg/Tatar
Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson
Abby/Helm/Tootoo
Emmerton/Miller

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Old
09-15-2012, 10:46 PM
  #189
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Abdelkader is better than Bertuzzi



Bert wins two or three games a year in the shootout too, something I think is constantly overlooked when factoring in his value.

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Old
09-16-2012, 07:11 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
He's a better player than Bertuzzi, and he's making less.
Right.

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Old
09-16-2012, 08:42 AM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Bertuzzi was a good player whose numbers wer inflated by playing with an offensively skilled defensive center and a dominant offensive player in Markus Naslund who was an excellent goal scorer and a very good playmaker. Bertuzzi was added to that line to give it size and toughness. His resulting scoring was "accidental" and went away after he left Vancouver, aside from a 7-game/7-point stint in Florida with a 91-point Olli Jokinen.

In the five seasons since then, Bertuzzi's 82-game pace has gone from 54 down to 43. Always on the first or second line and PP unit. What could Abdelkader do if he were Datsyuk's winger and played the PP?

I've never been Abdelkader's biggest fan, but he's a useful player who can be moved up and down the lineup. The only reasons I can seriously think of that puts Bertuzzi on the team because Datsyuk said he likes him, or because he fought in the playoffs. Nothing play-related that justifies his contract or his being on the team. He's not a bottom-sixer, and his being on the team causes a lot of roster issues. It's like Holmstrom except Holmstrom had a purpose; he was incredibly effective on the PP. Bertuzzi isn't.

If Bertuzzi wasn't retained, and the Wings' lineup looked as it does otherwise minus him, assume Eaves to LTIR and you could have this as your forward lineup:

Nyquist/Datsyuk/Brunner
Filppula/Zetterberg/Franzen
Cleary/Helm/Samuelsson
Miller/Abby/Tootoo
Emmerton/Mursak

If you want, bring in Tatar and you can have:

Nyquist/Datsyuk/Brunner
Franzen/Zetterberg/Tatar
Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson
Abby/Helm/Tootoo
Emmerton/Miller
Hahha. Get a grip.
Where is Bertuzzi going?
Look, I disagree with signing Bert and Sammy. But they are here. They are playing.

Barring some kind of catastrophic injury bug, Tatar plays in GR.
Chances are, one of Brunner and Nyquist starts in GR.

And Bertuzzi? Dude was a dominating powerforward in an age when players were allowed to hang on your back.

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Old
09-16-2012, 11:28 AM
  #192
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This is eva's way of dealing with the lockout. Taking his off-kilter player valuations to a new level

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Old
09-16-2012, 12:15 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Think about it for a second.

Abdelkader played under 11 minutes ES per game last year and scored 8-14-22. Bertuzzi played around 14 and scored 14-20-34. On the PP, Abby saw almost no time while Bertuzzi saw better than a minute and a half. Bert had no PP goals and 4 PP assists.

So add about a third of Abdelkader's scoring to make up that ES time difference, and he has 11-19-30. Not far off from Bert's numbers. But the real clincher?

Abdelkader was doing this playing on the third and fourth lines, with Emmerton, Holmstrom, Helm, Miller, etc. Bertuzzi spent most of the year with Datsyuk and Franzen. Abdelkader is a solid defensive player and PKer while Bert is a liability.

Abdelkader is better than Bertuzzi.
Bertuzzi may play with Datsyuk and/or Franzen...but he also plays against much better defensemen that Abdelkader does. You can't have it both ways. I'm not a big fan of Bertuzzi, but saying Abdelkader is better is ridiculous.

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