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Do we have a number one D-Man?

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Old
08-11-2012, 02:52 PM
  #1
Yozzy
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Do we have a number one D-Man?

Do we have a legit number one D-Man in Montreal?

Is Markov? Or is his reign essentially over?
It seems that the general consensus is that Gorges ideally would be a 2nd pairing type of guy, does Subban fit that statement as well? Or will he grow to be a number 1, if not already?

Are there any D's coming up that we're really counting on to be "that guy" for us? Or is this something that we would have to address via trade?



And finally, unrelated in the sense that I don't think he's our answer at all, but I'm just curious about Raphael Diaz. I'm half Swiss and so I'm always rooting for this guy. Is there any chance he becomes a legit 3rd of 4th even, or is that just a pipe dream?

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Old
08-11-2012, 02:54 PM
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Subban is easily a number 1

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08-11-2012, 02:57 PM
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NH57
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Easily Subban. What we need is a legit #2 D-man

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08-11-2012, 02:59 PM
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A healthy Markov is definitely one, Subban is Also a top pairing D

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08-11-2012, 03:01 PM
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I don't think that Subban is an established 1st pair dman, but he sure proved that he could play the part.

Imo, Gorges is a 1st pair dman, I don't want to say that he's on the same level of Dan Hamhuis or Robyn Regher but he does bring comparable intangibles on the ice.

I think it's tough to say whether Markov's era is past it's prime. He showed that he still had the Hockey IQ and skills, however his body is entirelly anotehr matter. We will have to wait and see.

I think that Raphael Diaz could become Mark Streit 2.0. He's not a very big defenseman, so he'll always struggle defensively, but he can still make key defensively plays from time to time. I think that his production will inflate as he gains experience. I think that he fared rather well considering all the BS of the last season.

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08-11-2012, 03:01 PM
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Subban is a top pairing d-man. Not a bonafide #1 star yet but he's at least a #2. Gorges is a #3 and Markov is a wildcard right now.

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08-11-2012, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
I don't think that Subban is an established 1st pair dman, but he sure proved that he could play the part.

Imo, Gorges is a 1st pair dman, I don't want to say that he's on the same level of Dan Hamhuis or Robyn Regher but he does bring comparable intangibles on the ice.

I think it's tough to say whether Markov's era is past it's prime. He showed that he still had the Hockey IQ and skills, however his body is entirelly anotehr matter. We will have to wait and see.

I think that Raphael Diaz could become Mark Streit 2.0. He's not a very big defenseman, so he'll always struggle defensively, but he can still make key defensively plays from time to time. I think that his production will inflate as he gains experience. I think that he fared rather well considering all the BS of the last season.
A bit of a contradiction in that first sentence, no? If he's proven he can play the part, wouldn't that make him legit?

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Old
08-11-2012, 03:10 PM
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Issacar
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A bit of a contradiction in that first sentence, no? If he's proven he can play the part, wouldn't that make him legit?
I agree that it's a bit contradicting. But can you also say that he is a proven top defenseman? I think it's all a matter of experience/maturity.

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08-11-2012, 03:11 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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A bit of a contradiction in that first sentence, no? If he's proven he can play the part, wouldn't that make him legit?
I think he means like a goalie going on a good stretch and looking like a starter but it needs to be done over an extended period of time. I don't agree with him, I just think he means subban filled the role temporarily and needs more to be considered legit and proven.

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08-11-2012, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think he means like a goalie going on a good stretch and looking like a starter but it needs to be done over an extended period of time. I don't agree with him, I just think he means subban filled the role temporarily and needs more to be considered legit and proven.
That's not what I meant.

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Old
08-11-2012, 03:17 PM
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That's not what I meant.
My bad then.

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08-11-2012, 03:18 PM
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With a bit more support and maturity, sky is the limit for Subban..

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Old
08-11-2012, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
My bad then.
No harm done

If I was Michel Therrien, I would be comfortable going into the season with Subban as my #1 RD. Is he legit and proven? That's a question that could both fall in the yes/no category if you weight all the arguments.

What most people agree on, (just to reuse NewHabsEra's line), in his case, sky is the limit. What is legit to say (imo), is that if Subban is not a clear cut top pair defenseman now, it won't take much more then 1 more season for him to establish his stock value in that category.

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Old
08-11-2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
I agree that it's a bit contradicting. But can you also say that he is a proven top defenseman? I think it's all a matter of experience/maturity.
As much as any sophomore player would have proven. The kid is a top Dman, no question about it.

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Old
08-11-2012, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
No harm done

If I was Michel Therrien, I would be comfortable going into the season with Subban as my #1 RD. Is he legit and proven? That's a question that could both fall in the yes/no category if you weight all the arguments.

What most people agree on, (just to reuse NewHabsEra's line), in his case, sky is the limit. What is legit to say (imo), is that if Subban is not a clear cut top pair defenseman now, it won't take much more then 1 more season for him to establish his stock value in that category.
He got the second most minutes on the Habs blue line in his rookie season and he did very good and last season he was hands down our most used defenseman by a large margin and he was a freaking plus player on a terrible hockey club while *always* playing the top opposition.

You can question whether or not hes a "#1" d man. Since everyone has a different perception of what exactly it takes to fit that bill. In my eyes a #1 defenseman is a guy that can play 25 minutes a game, rack up 40 points or more, top penalty killer and play on the top PP unit. The only thing Subban hasn't reached in what i listed is the 40pt plateau although he's been very close and I believe he will surpass it this season.

He is HAND DOWN a top pairing defenseman. It's not even disputable. Anyone who says otherwise has their head in the sands.

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08-11-2012, 05:08 PM
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He got the second most minutes on the Habs blue line in his rookie season and he did very good and last season he was hands down our most used defenseman by a large margin and he was a freaking plus player on a terrible hockey club while *always* playing the top opposition.

You can question whether or not hes a "#1" d man. Since everyone has a different perception of what exactly it takes to fit that bill. In my eyes a #1 defenseman is a guy that can play 25 minutes a game, rack up 40 points or more, top penalty killer and play on the top PP unit. The only thing Subban hasn't reached in what i listed is the 40pt plateau although he's been very close and I believe he will surpass it this season.

He is HAND DOWN a top pairing defenseman. It's not even disputable. Anyone who says otherwise has their head in the sands.
Agreed, Subban is a number 1 dman AINEC. His minutes played and situational play is that of a top pairing dman. He displays excellent results in puck possession often driving the play to the opposition. He's a stud.

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Old
08-11-2012, 05:16 PM
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a healthy Markov is a number one guy. Subban at worst is an elite number 2.

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Old
08-11-2012, 06:55 PM
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Subban is a top pairing d-man and will be a top d-man for this habs team for numerous years to come.

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Old
08-11-2012, 07:41 PM
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nvm.


Last edited by LeHab: 08-11-2012 at 11:10 PM.
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Old
08-11-2012, 07:49 PM
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I think Markov is a #1 dman.

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Old
08-11-2012, 08:13 PM
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PK and Markov are #1 dmens.

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Old
08-11-2012, 08:23 PM
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Let's not overrate Subban people. He had a pretty damn average season this year. Some nice upside of course, but right now he's a #3 until he proves otherwise.

Markov is the only one who could be considered a true #1... IF he comes back to his past form. But I'm not sold about that. He was absolutely terrible the few games he played this year and it seems he'll be a mediocre skater from no on, which is a serious problem for a guy his size. I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes another Kaberle.

Our #1 is Gorges, even though he's not good enough offensively to be considered a true #1.

So unless Subban improves a lot and Markov proves he can still play at a high level, our defense will be awful again this year (considering that after these three, all the others are barely NHL caliber).

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Old
08-11-2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Let's not overrate Subban people. He had a pretty damn average season this year. Some nice upside of course, but right now he's a #3 until he proves otherwise.

Markov is the only one who could be considered a true #1... IF he comes back to his past form. But I'm not sold about that. He was absolutely terrible the few games he played this year and it seems he'll be a mediocre skater from no on, which is a serious problem for a guy his size. I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes another Kaberle.

Our #1 is Gorges, even though he's not good enough offensively to be considered a true #1.

So unless Subban improves a lot and Markov proves he can still play at a high level, our defense will be awful again this year (considering that after these three, all the others are barely NHL caliber).
Mediocre first half, most of us are willing to concede.

He played favorably down the stretch, and all of the hockey stats (basic and advanced) corroborate our beliefs that he is more than "just a #3". I'd like to see you go further in depth to debunk this, because I think you're just talking out your ass.

Like someone else already said, at worst Subban is a very good #2 defenseman.

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Old
08-11-2012, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Let's not overrate Subban people. He had a pretty damn average season this year.
Getting 40 points, being one of two defenders on the 1st unit of the 2nd best PK in the NHL, and being one of two "+" dmen on a team which is the third worst in the league is what constitutes ...

"pretty damn average".

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Old
08-11-2012, 08:55 PM
  #25
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Subban is a future #1. Once he get more consistent, he'll get there.

We haven't seen markov play over a long stretch in a long while, but I think he's still the guy.

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