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Old
08-21-2012, 10:37 PM
  #426
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it's an olive branch, but can the PA & Owners trust Bettman with even more power?

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08-21-2012, 10:49 PM
  #427
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More from BriseBois: No waivers during work stoppage. Same as in 04. Waiver rules are part of CBA. If there's no CBA there's no waiver rules
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OK, Im told that If there is a work stoppage, players can sign contracts with other leagues, including the AHL. So thats the vet loophole
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08-22-2012, 06:53 AM
  #428
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The NHL teams will honor their waiver rules. Why would a player sign an AHL contract?

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08-22-2012, 07:08 AM
  #429
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Is there a middle ground where the owners can fix some of their system issues and still honour the contracts they've been giving out since the last CBA, including the cap circumventing deals signed this summer?

"Yes. I don't think there's any question of that," one league source said. "How those contracts are treated, for system purposes, may be a different issue, but I think we can clearly conceive of a system where all outstanding contracts are honoured to their letter."

It goes without saying that for that to happen the players will need to cooperate with the owners when it comes to tidying up some of the loopholes that have distorted the system the owners thought they were getting in 2004-05.

Perhaps if the players agree to contract term lengths and eliminate front-end loaded deals, the owners might relent on free agency and salary arbitration. You never know.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/..._for_optimism/

The NHL wants to make the salary the cap hit. The contract has the same annual salary. No front loading. No more average salary. If the NHL and NHLPA agree to changes in existing contracts,the Rangers could be screwed with the Richards contract. $6.667M is the cap hit. The average salary for the first 6 years is $9.5M. $12M salary in 12-13. You can say grandfather them in but most of the long term contracts will still exist when the next CBA expires. That's the problem. The player still gets his money but the cap hit is changed.

The players probably would agree to changes in contract lengths and front-loaded deals to preserve free agency at 7 years or 27 and keep salary arbitration. The PA wants to dump walk away rights in arbitration. Maybe the NHL gives them that for changes in contracts.

Maybe not 5 year term limit. Maybe 7 or 8 years which is better than 13 year contracts. The annual salary is flat and the cap hit is the salary. The NBA has contract term limits. The NBA had 7 year limits 6 year limits in 1999 CBA. Then it became 5 for new contracts and 6 for re-signing your players. Now its 4 for new contracts and 5 for re-signing your players.


Last edited by RangerBoy: 08-22-2012 at 07:14 AM.
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08-22-2012, 07:55 AM
  #430
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Jozef Balej played in Hartford during the 2004-05 lockout. He was in the last season of his 3 year ELC.

Look at the Hartford team

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...008802005.html

Joel Bouchard was a free agent. He signed an AHL contract after the NHL cancelled the season.

Blair Betts played under an AHL deal. The Rangers acquired him while he was injured. The Rangers didn't qualify him. He signed an AHL deal. Betts needed to play. He could not have played in the AHL in 04-05 because of waivers. The Rangers re-signed him when the lockout was over. Wink wink deal.

Jeff Hamilton had an AHL deal.

Jamie Lundmark signed an AHL deal to play in the AHL. He had a NHL deal. Lundmark went to play in Italy but he didn't stay there long. Lundmark needed to play after failing to establish himself as an NHLer in his first 3 years pro.

Stepan and McDonagh have established themselves as NHLers. Hagelin is also an NHL player. 23 years old. 4 years of college. 1 year of pro hockey.

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08-22-2012, 07:57 AM
  #431
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I would definitely agree with giving teams who resign their homegrown guys the opportunity to sign them to longer contracts. Reward good drafting.

Maybe 5 year limit for signing any old player, 7 year limit for signing a player you drafted?

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08-22-2012, 08:23 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
I would definitely agree with giving teams who resign their homegrown guys the opportunity to sign them to longer contracts. Reward good drafting.

Maybe 5 year limit for signing any old player, 7 year limit for signing a player you drafted?
I like that idea. Gives teams a bit of an advantage to keep their players.

I think they need to address the over 35 thing as well. Either get rid of it completely or limit over 35 contracts to one year.

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08-22-2012, 08:51 AM
  #433
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I don't understand how you can make a radically drastic change like the way the caphit is calculated and not grandfather in old deals. That would he ridiculously unfair.

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08-22-2012, 09:30 AM
  #434
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So many teams are scrambling to sign their players to longer terms than five years. Edmonton is looking to re-up Hall and Eberle to long term deals. Philly gave Simmonds and Hartnell 6 years. VAN is trying to re-sign Burrows and Edler. Both will be a group III if the current rules remain. The VAN players could be looking to cash in now rather than wait to see if the rules remain the same. The Rangers aren't one of those teams. Sather likes to wait. Let the player prove himself before giving him big $. McDonagh could get $4M next summer. Probably right now too. If the Rangers wanted to sign Mac long term today,it will cost $4M in a long term deal. 5-6 years. Maybe $4.5M. He wil be worth the same next July. Rangers get burned if Mac has a Norris Trophy type season. Then he is worth $6M plus. The Rangers will give him the $6M plus because he is one of the top D in the NHL. They could save about $2M per by signing Mac now. Mac is arb eligible next July. Maybe Sather is hoping for changes in arbitration or older group III than 27. Mac will be 24 when his new deal comes up.

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08-22-2012, 10:49 AM
  #435
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http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...de-owners.html

Aaron Portzline makes it seem like it won't be that hard to pit owner vs owner. I could totally see how the franchises that are losing money would like most of the NHLPA's deal.

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08-22-2012, 10:56 AM
  #436
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If the Rangers can sign McDonagh to a 5-6 year deal right now for $4M than they should do it. I just don't see McDonagh's value going south of $4M in any way as we move forward. Even if McDonagh doesn't improve and just maxes out as the player he was last season, he's still worth at least $4M.

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08-22-2012, 11:15 AM
  #437
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The big market teams like the PA's proposal because the cap will be flat from the current $70.2M (not linked to revenue)with fixed increases for the first 3 years. $69M cap the 1st year. $71M in 2nd. $74M in 3rd. Bettman has proposed a $50.8M cap. The small market teams like it for the increased revenue sharing. Some reports say revenue sharing is $150M. Some say its $170M. One report says the owners are willing to bump it up from $170M to $190M-$200M. The $170M to $190M with the PA asking for $240M are the terms most mentioned. Fehr said revenue sharing in PA proposal is for $250M. Russo reported its $240M. Its $240M. $100M goes into a fund Bettman controls for revenue sharing. They don't seem to be that far. The owners have proposed 46%. Players are at 53%-54%. They may need to change what makes up HRR because its different in the NHL than the other sports. $50M difference in revenue sharing. Fehr proposed keeping the hard cap and offered a cut in HRR. There is room to make changes. From: @aaronward_nhl
Sent: Aug 22, 2012 11:03a

proposal calls for $240M to go to Revenue Sharing under the 'Industry Growth Fund'.$100M of RS money will go directly into Bettman's hands

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08-22-2012, 11:18 AM
  #438
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From: @aaronward_nhl
Sent: Aug 22, 2012 11:03a

Key point to be addressed today in #CBA negotiations,REVENUE SHARING.Reported NHL proposal moves it from $150M (4.5%) to $190 (6%).NHLPA

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Old
08-22-2012, 11:32 AM
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StaalWars View Post
If the Rangers can sign McDonagh to a 5-6 year deal right now for $4M than they should do it. I just don't see McDonagh's value going south of $4M in any way as we move forward. Even if McDonagh doesn't improve and just maxes out as the player he was last season, he's still worth at least $4M.
Slats doesn't operate that way. He usually allows the player to play out the contract. Except for the winter of 2008 when Slats re-signed Henke,Tyutin and Girardi,he rarely re-signs a player with time left on their contract. Straka got a 1 year extension one year during the season. It was in 06-07 for 07-08. Betts got an extension during the season in 06-07. Then there's DZ with his contract. He is worth $4M in a long term extension. $3.5-$4M. Sather and Gorton want to re-sign DZ to a bridge contract based on the $ Brooks reported. $2.2-$2.5M is bridge contract $. Two year deal. Sign Mac to a long term deal next summer and then re-sign DZ in 2014. Mac establishes the market. Those bridge contracts come in at $2.5M-$2.75M per.

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08-22-2012, 11:36 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I don't understand how you can make a radically drastic change like the way the caphit is calculated and not grandfather in old deals. That would he ridiculously unfair.
Yup, teams shouldn't be punished for signing deals under the old deal (as stupid as they were) that operated a certain way under the old deal

The one thing I am worried about is Redden's salary coming back on the books and the Rangers needing to buy out the last 2 years of his contract, but there will probably be special buyout rules in that circumstance (or the Rangers are REALLY screwed)

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Old
08-22-2012, 11:48 AM
  #441
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The NHL is at $190M. The PA is $240M. The NHL is a $3.3B business. $50M difference. You read there's no way the NHL loses the Winter Classic. Waiting until November 22 to get a CBA done gives Fehr leverage. They don't want to give Fehr leverage. If that's the NHL's breaking point(not losing the Winter Classic). If the NHL is going to become more flexible in 3 months,just make the deal now. Give Fehr his revenue sharing. He gives more in HRR with some changes in how its computed. They can work out the other stuff using the PA proposal and the NHL proposal. More revenue sharing. Big market teams aren't screwed over in any transition stuff. Cap stays at a high level. Its not tied to revenue. Just like the PA proposal but longer than 3 years plus a players option at 57%.

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08-22-2012, 11:55 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Yup, teams shouldn't be punished for signing deals under the old deal (as stupid as they were) that operated a certain way under the old deal

The one thing I am worried about is Redden's salary coming back on the books and the Rangers needing to buy out the last 2 years of his contract, but there will probably be special buyout rules in that circumstance (or the Rangers are REALLY screwed)
The NHL proposal has 1 way contracts counting against the cap. Compliance buyouts will reportedly be in the CBA. The PA will have a say if one way contracts in the minors count against the cap. They fought against it last time. In the current CBA,buyouts from the 95 didn't count in the 2005 CBA. Maybe Drury's $1.667M won't count. There wasn't a cap in the 95 CBA but teams which still owed buyout $ didn't take a cap hit on it.

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08-22-2012, 12:18 PM
  #443
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The NHL is at $190M. The PA is $240M. The NHL is a $3.3B business. $50M difference. You read there's no way the NHL loses the Winter Classic. Waiting until November 22 to get a CBA done gives Fehr leverage. They don't want to give Fehr leverage. If that's the NHL's breaking point(not losing the Winter Classic). If the NHL is going to become more flexible in 3 months,just make the deal now. Give Fehr his revenue sharing. He gives more in HRR with some changes in how its computed. They can work out the other stuff using the PA proposal and the NHL proposal. More revenue sharing. Big market teams aren't screwed over in any transition stuff. Cap stays at a high level. Its not tied to revenue. Just like the PA proposal but longer than 3 years plus a players option at 57%.
I definitely think something needs to go really wrong for another season to be lost over the relativetly small diffrences, in the end, between the two parties.

But why are the WC so important? In the broad picture, isn't the sums involved for that game pretty small? It doesn't seem like the WC alone even is worth more than one round of regular season hockey (=15 games). You miss half the season to get to the WC you miss 41 rounds or 615 games.

I get the WC as a starting point for a late season. I get it as a marketing event. And so forth. But I don't get why it can't be missed, if the 30-40 rounds before that game can be missed...

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08-22-2012, 12:22 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by StaalWars View Post
If the Rangers can sign McDonagh to a 5-6 year deal right now for $4M than they should do it. I just don't see McDonagh's value going south of $4M in any way as we move forward. Even if McDonagh doesn't improve and just maxes out as the player he was last season, he's still worth at least $4M.
I do not get why.

The new CBA will result in less money, not more. Why hurry to sign your guys now, unless you want them to be tied up longer than in the new CBA? And 5 year contracts will definitely be allowed.

I can get EDM doing it, the player gives up risk with a new CBA but takes on years at the end to get paid more short term.

But McD? The UFA age could go to 10 pro years.... I don't see how we could "loose" on not signing him now.

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08-22-2012, 12:35 PM
  #445
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From: @reporterchris
Sent: Aug 22, 2012 12:34p

I'm told all the heavy hitters in CBA talks held a meeting this morning: Gary Bettman, Bill Daly, Don Fehr, Steve Fehr.

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08-22-2012, 12:36 PM
  #446
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A meeting before the actual meeting at 1pm.

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08-22-2012, 01:04 PM
  #447
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From: @reporterchris
Sent: Aug 22, 2012 1:00p

NHL's CBA session is supposed to be starting. Gary Bettman is still camped out at league office. Negotiations on hold...for now.

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08-22-2012, 01:08 PM
  #448
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From: @reporterchris
Sent: Aug 22, 2012 1:06p

I'm told CBA talks have been cancelled for the day. They're scheduled to resume in the morning.

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08-22-2012, 01:16 PM
  #449
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From: @reporterchris
Sent: Aug 22, 2012 1:06p

I'm told CBA talks have been cancelled for the day. They're scheduled to resume in the morning.

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08-22-2012, 02:16 PM
  #450
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From: @reporterchris
Sent: Aug 22, 2012 1:06p

I'm told CBA talks have been cancelled for the day. They're scheduled to resume in the morning.

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Unbelievable.

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