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Old
08-23-2012, 10:59 AM
  #501
RangerBoy
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Bettman says they are far apart on all of the systems and economic issues. NHL wants more tightness and PA wants more flexibility. From: @RenLavoieRDS
Sent: Aug 23, 2012 11:52a

Gary Bettman: "we agreed that we will talk on Tuesday in NY, Don, Steve, Bill and I."

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On Twitter: http://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/stat...65103141113856

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08-23-2012, 11:03 AM
  #502
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From: @markhmasters
Sent: Aug 23, 2012 11:56a

Bettman can't understand why there's so much focus on revenue sharing; says gulf bt sides not wide on that issue

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On Twitter: http://twitter.com/markhmasters/stat...66132872130560

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08-23-2012, 11:11 AM
  #503
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Bettman's owners are paying players big money before those players are out of entry level. That's an ownership and management issue. From: @michaelgrange
Sent: Aug 23, 2012 12:03p

Asked Bettman why, if #NHL is doing well owners are determined to change core economics 'we think we're paying too much in salaries' #NHLPA

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08-23-2012, 11:14 AM
  #504
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Bettman said that the players want to keep things the way they are, which is slowing the CBA progress.

Does someone need to tell Gary that he's the one who made the system the way it is?

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08-23-2012, 11:21 AM
  #505
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When hockey returns, I will continue to watch it...but holy **** they are going to lose a lot of fans at this rate. It's incredible.

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Old
08-23-2012, 11:30 AM
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH2 View Post
Bettman said that the players want to keep things the way they are, which is slowing the CBA progress.

Does someone need to tell Gary that he's the one who made the system the way it is?
does everyone get that 7 seasons is a long time? things do need to change somewhat. things arent the same way they were in 2005

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08-23-2012, 11:40 AM
  #507
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I'm a little confused. Aren't the owners the ones who want limits on contracts (in terms of number of years)? And want cap hits to be 5 year averages or actually salary?

Then why are they all clamoring to sign all they're young players (see Hall, Skinner, Simmonds, etc) to long term deals? Isn't that what they're trying to remove in the new CBA? Makes no sense to me.

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08-23-2012, 11:47 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by The Dark Passenger View Post
I'm a little confused. Aren't the owners the ones who want limits on contracts (in terms of number of years)? And want cap hits to be 5 year averages or actually salary?

Then why are they all clamoring to sign all they're young players (see Hall, Skinner, Simmonds, etc) to long term deals? Isn't that what they're trying to remove in the new CBA? Makes no sense to me.
Because some owners (Snider, Dolan) can use the long term contracts to attract FA's while the rest of the league pretty much is against it.

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08-23-2012, 11:49 AM
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Bettman's owners are paying players big money before those players are out of entry level. That's an ownership and management issue. From: @michaelgrange
Sent: Aug 23, 2012 12:03p

Asked Bettman why, if #NHL is doing well owners are determined to change core economics 'we think we're paying too much in salaries' #NHLPA

sent via Twitter for iPhone
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/michaelgrange/sta...67886925860865
Then stop handing them out, no one twists their arms to offer ridiculous contracts. If you have to offer a player a ridiculous contract to play there, he really doesn't want to be there that bad.

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08-23-2012, 11:59 AM
  #510
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Then stop handing them out, no one twists their arms to offer ridiculous contracts. If you have to offer a player a ridiculous contract to play there, he really doesn't want to be there that bad.
As I've said before, the owners talk out of both sides of their mouths. They can't control themselves, and they are their own worst enemies.

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08-23-2012, 12:11 PM
  #511
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Then stop handing them out, no one twists their arms to offer ridiculous contracts. If you have to offer a player a ridiculous contract to play there, he really doesn't want to be there that bad.
It's the mechanics of a marketplace. If you want to attract talent to your team, you need give the players what the other teams are willing to. Front-loaded deals, NMCs, long-term deals all will be given out freely unless there's something that says they can't. An owner individually has about as much control over these things as I have over how much I pay for gas.

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Old
08-23-2012, 12:15 PM
  #512
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Ed Snider can't stop signing players. Shea Weber. Wayne Simmonds. Scott Hartnell. If Claude Giroux was eligible for an extension,Snider would give him $70M for 10 years. Bettman has the audacity to complain about paying 2 much in salaries. His buddy Craig Leopold cried poverty and then gave out 2 13 year contracts worth $98M per.

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08-23-2012, 12:25 PM
  #513
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I want their Jobs!!!!

Why does the negotiating team members only work an hour and a half in negotiations every 3 days! There seems to be a lack of any urgancy on this matter...........I'd get fired if I opperated like that. Are these guys serious or just don't give a ...........

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Old
08-23-2012, 12:30 PM
  #514
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Because they don't have a sense of urgency. Once the CBA has expired and half the season has been lost, then maybe that'll come.

I've seen this movie, before.

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Old
08-23-2012, 12:34 PM
  #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Passenger View Post
I'm a little confused. Aren't the owners the ones who want limits on contracts (in terms of number of years)? And want cap hits to be 5 year averages or actually salary?

Then why are they all clamoring to sign all they're young players (see Hall, Skinner, Simmonds, etc) to long term deals? Isn't that what they're trying to remove in the new CBA? Makes no sense to me.
they don't want OTHER owners being allowed to do this stuff...no one has a problem with it when they are the ones 'cheating'.

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Old
08-23-2012, 12:53 PM
  #516
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These whole negotiations are ****ing pathetic.

It's like they don't even a give a **** about getting a deal done. Im waking up at like 11 and already hearing news about the meetings being over? This is a joke and slap in the face to us fans. What will it take for them to actually meet consistently? End of September when there is no CBA and camp suppose to start? At least with the NBA last summer, they were meeting plenty and sometimes from the mornings to late at night.

Get a fcking deal done.

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Old
08-23-2012, 01:27 PM
  #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
It's the mechanics of a marketplace. If you want to attract talent to your team, you need give the players what the other teams are willing to. Front-loaded deals, NMCs, long-term deals all will be given out freely unless there's something that says they can't. An owner individually has about as much control over these things as I have over how much I pay for gas.
I agree.

Then again, how many teams are out there that truly cant compete financially? Better yet, how many of those teams are in the gutter not because of player salaries, but because their management continues to make horrendous decisions?

Bettman is on his crusade for a very small # of teams, worst yet, the struggles of those teams are often self-inflicted.

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Old
08-23-2012, 01:51 PM
  #518
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Hockey fans aren't going anywhere and both sides know it. no urgency. I think they've given up on making the game as popular as other top tier sports. pressure off.

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08-23-2012, 02:05 PM
  #519
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Owners are paying too much in salary? And this is the players' fault? lolol

Well this is just about the stupidest thing he's ever said. I mean are you kidding me? You created this system!

The reason why teams are signing these guys long term is because other teams have taken advantage of this cap loophole and nobody wants to be left behind. The very owners complaining about the system are the ones signing cap circumvention deals. Weber, Parise, Kovy, etc etc etc. How does Hall even get 6m after 2 years in the league? And whose fault is that? Did the players' union just decide to give these contracts out?

The fact is that the owners created this system where teams can abuse the cap. I'm all for fixing this - but not by lowering the total amount players are paid. Fix the system - make players earn their paychecks, make these front-loaded deals go away, and fix the contract lengths. I bet the players would understand - as long as they aren't losing their share of the revenue.

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08-23-2012, 02:07 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Bettman is on his crusade for a very small # of teams, worst yet, the struggles of those teams are often self-inflicted.
Absolutely. This is a management issue not a cap or revenue issue. Fix the system to prevent these cap circumvention deals...but otherwise you can't save teams from themselves. And you can't expect the players to fix your own problems.

Additionally, how much owner solidarity is there if Bettman is really only negotiating these changes for 5-8 teams?

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Old
08-23-2012, 02:20 PM
  #521
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Owners are paying too much in salary? And this is the players' fault? lolol
I haven't heard any owner blame the players. Economics are to blame. An individual owner has very little control over the league's player salaries. If they want a lower payroll, they need to be smart, be lucky, or have worse players.

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Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
Well this is just about the stupidest thing he's ever said. I mean are you kidding me? You created this system!
The system was created by both the NHL and its PA.

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Old
08-23-2012, 02:36 PM
  #522
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The system was created by both the NHL and its PA.
I think it was more the PA "giving in" to this system because they had no other choice.

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Old
08-23-2012, 02:39 PM
  #523
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1. UFA age should be pushed back a couple of years (Allows lower level teams to keep drafted players longer). 'You COULD add an NBA like contract where the player has the ability to get a larger contract with his current team than a UFA deal. I just hate these sign and trades!'

2. Max contract should be 6 years - these 12 year contracts are insane.

3. Salary cap should NOT be dropped, but I understand that there could be a period of time where it cannot rise. If they agreed not to raise the cap, then I'd want the floor to rise.

4. Salaries should NOT be rolled back. If I signed a 3 year contract for 3 million... then that's what I deserve to be paid.

Revenue sharing? I'm not touching that one. I don't know enough about it.

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08-23-2012, 02:46 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I haven't heard any owner blame the players. Economics are to blame. An individual owner has very little control over the league's player salaries. If they want a lower payroll, they need to be smart, be lucky, or have worse players.


The system was created by both the NHL and its PA.
Bettman is asking the players to take a 24% rollback plus lower the cap by 14m...I'd say that's blaming the players for your mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
I think it was more the PA "giving in" to this system because they had no other choice.
Exactly.

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Old
08-23-2012, 02:49 PM
  #525
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http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/bruin...ing-for-thomas

These type of trades shouldn't be allowed. The player will not play this season but the acquiring team can reach the floor(wherever the floor is)by using the $5M cap hit. This takes money away from the players. Boston wants to keep this in the CBA because they have the Thomas contract to move. The NHL proposes 5 year contract limits and teams are scrambling to sign their players to extensions longer than 5 years. Edmonton and Carolina extend their players with one year left in entry level. The NHL is proposing 1 way contracts counting against the cap. Teams scream that is circumvention but trading a bad contract of a player not playing to reach the floor is NOT circumvention???????The Islanders will trade for that $5M cap hit to reach the floor. They won't pay any salary to Thomas who is owed $3M in 12-13. They will get revenue sharing too. If that's the case,there's a flaw in the system without the new CBA even being negotiated.

Then there are teams screaming to punish teams which gave out the long term contracts and changing their cap hits. Everyone has their own agenda. Bettman needs to have a Board of Governors meeting.
It just would make payment to escrow smaller...

Quote:
Preamble. This Article 50 creates a fixed relationship between League-wide Player
Compensation and Hockey Related Revenues, and provides that League-wide Player
Compensation will rise or fall in direct proportion to a rise or fall in Hockey Related
Revenues, and will equal (i.e., will never exceed nor be less than) the Players' Share.
You could remove the upper and lower limit even, the players would still -- on the cent -- get paid as much.


Last edited by Ola: 08-23-2012 at 02:57 PM.
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