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08-23-2012, 09:20 PM
  #551
NYRangers16
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
This.

Whole thing is absolutely infuriating as a fan. They just don't give a ****.
Oh absolutely. Though I think the owners have com off their hard line opening stance...or at least seem open to doing so. But th PA was right not to negotiate off those terms...wouldn't have been very smart.

We'll see what happens. Needless to say the players' offer was way more towards the middle ground than the owners' was.

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08-23-2012, 09:42 PM
  #552
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I've never understood how a loss of a season to get a better deal is a better option money wise than to settle for a deal earlier, even if it's worse.

The money lost in a whole season is just absurd. I don't get it. I can't fathom how this league even has the possibility of having yet another lockout.

Egos?

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08-24-2012, 01:28 AM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
Oh absolutely. Though I think the owners have com off their hard line opening stance...or at least seem open to doing so. But th PA was right not to negotiate off those terms...wouldn't have been very smart.

We'll see what happens. Needless to say the players' offer was way more towards the middle ground than the owners' was.
when you break it down.. it really wasnt.

go back to post 212 in this thread and you'll see its not that great.

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08-24-2012, 06:41 AM
  #554
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Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
when you break it down.. it really wasnt.

go back to post 212 in this thread and you'll see its not that great.
Really? The owners throwing out the possibility of a system where the % drops in increments with the players getting the same amount of money as revenue increases sounds like a counteroffer to what the players proposed.

The owners didn't propose this on July 13

Quote:
The league is also believed to have verbally raised the possibility of seeing the players’ share in revenue drop incrementally rather than all at once. Theoretically, it could be done at a rate that is matched by an expected increase in revenues — essentially keeping salaries constant over the duration of the agreement while owners take in more profit.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4494896/

Bettman proposed the cap dropping to $50.8M with rollbacks in existing contracts. Bettman proposed 46%. He didn't propose a system with HRR steadily decreasing and the players keeping their salaries.

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08-24-2012, 01:22 PM
  #555
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Is this old news?

SEL Won't Sign Locked-Out NHL Players

Just no Rangers to the KHL if it comes to that, please.

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08-24-2012, 01:25 PM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Really? The owners throwing out the possibility of a system where the % drops in increments with the players getting the same amount of money as revenue increases sounds like a counteroffer to what the players proposed.

The owners didn't propose this on July 13



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4494896/

Bettman proposed the cap dropping to $50.8M with rollbacks in existing contracts. Bettman proposed 46%. He didn't propose a system with HRR steadily decreasing and the players keeping their salaries.
never once did i mention the owners proposal. i strictly mentioned the players proposal wasn't as good as it was made out to be

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08-24-2012, 01:44 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
never once did i mention the owners proposal. i strictly mentioned the players proposal wasn't as good as it was made out to be
I read that post when it was made and it's a good side-by-side comparison of the offers. I just see the players' version as being less extreme. And at least their offer does try to address the owners' concerns by offering increased revenue sharing, no cap increases for 3 years, and also delinking the cap from revenues in order to provide the owners with a guaranteed amount of income. By comparison the owners' offer was just pretty much screwing the players across the board. By this logic the players' offer was way more substantial, imo.

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08-24-2012, 02:33 PM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
I read that post when it was made and it's a good side-by-side comparison of the offers. I just see the players' version as being less extreme. And at least their offer does try to address the owners' concerns by offering increased revenue sharing, no cap increases for 3 years, and also delinking the cap from revenues in order to provide the owners with a guaranteed amount of income. By comparison the owners' offer was just pretty much screwing the players across the board. By this logic the players' offer was way more substantial, imo.
of course its not less extreme, but its not as good as the fans and media make it out to be.

im sick of this already, just need hockey.

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08-24-2012, 03:03 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
of course its not less extreme, but its not as good as the fans and media make it out to be.

im sick of this already, just need hockey.
Want to hear the sad and inconvenient truth?

Most of the people involved in these negotiations don't give a damn if you, the fan, wants this to end so you can watch hockey.

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Old
08-24-2012, 03:24 PM
  #560
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NBC pays no rights fees for a year 11 should this NHL season be cancelled. Owners could lose more than $200 mil by then
Quote:
That's why TV money is still big, big wedge issue this year, IMO. Rights could be worth much more than 200 mil 9 years from now
https://twitter.com/adater

Quote:
@adater Agree the deal underestimated tech changes. Nothing to say NHL/NBC can't reneg. new deal before then. Needed 10 yrs for affiliates.
https://twitter.com/dowbboy/status/239083494318424064

NBC will pay the NHL $150M-$160M(Larry Brooks 7/22)this the season even if the season is not played. Then the contract extends another season.

Quote:
For you see, Snider’s NBC/Comcast television contract with the NHL calls for the network to pay the league in full for this season — believed between $150 million and $160 million — even if 2012-13 is canceled in full.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...#ixzz24UsoTDoB

Rights fees could be higher but the NHL will be receiving zero dollars in 21-22 if 12-13 is cancelled.

The NBC contract is 10 years/$200M. Is the deal backloaded? $150M-$160M in 12-13 which is the 2nd year of the contract.

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08-24-2012, 03:30 PM
  #561
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There is a deal to be made when they start negotiating. Now two sides only want to discuss their proposals.

Quote:
The signal the owners were trying to convey -- according to league sources -- was twofold: they are willing to move from their initial proposal which called for the players to have their share of the league's $3.3 billion and growing pool of HRR cut from 57 per cent to 43 per cent. There has been talk in the NHL offices of a 50-50 split being workable.

And secondly, that they are open to achieving what they feel is a more equitable split of HRR over time which -- as league revenues grow -- should result in the number of dollars available to the players to remain somewhat constant (i.e. no salary rollbacks), or at least reduced more gradually.

The players' proposal calls for them to collect about $1.91 billion in 2012-13, which would be about $100 million less than they would under the existing CBA, assuming that league revenues grow by at least the seven per cent rate they have over the past seven seasons.

The owners' proposal calls for the players to collect about $450 million less in year one.

The owners certainly want to get some real savings back next year -- they've been clear on that -- but are suggesting that it doesn't have to be $450 million, though it will have to be more than the $100 million the players have offered.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...l_blink_first/

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08-24-2012, 07:44 PM
  #562
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Bettman’s gaffe implies fans are mere doormats

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/sports/...service=mobile

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08-25-2012, 01:23 PM
  #563
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According to Bettman the union is the side trying to negotiate off the old cba. The league is recycling the same deal with a smaller cut for the workers. If he wants the players to propose greater revenue sharing amongst the teams he should keep talking like that

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08-26-2012, 10:25 AM
  #564
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Quote:
Small group meeting in NYC on Tues. Bettman, Daly and the Fehr brothers. Eco issues the focus. NHL likely to present another proposal
-Dreger

Not sure if that underlined bit had been reported before...

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08-26-2012, 10:37 AM
  #565
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It's comical and pathetic at this point.

On SiriusXM they called the CBA: Can't Bear it Anymore.

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08-26-2012, 10:43 AM
  #566
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
-Dreger

Not sure if that underlined bit had been reported before...
If they present another one, it better be different from the original proposal.

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08-26-2012, 10:47 AM
  #567
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Dreger is the first to report the NHL will likely table another offer. If Dreger is reporting "likely",the NHL will extend another offer. It was reported the NHL last week the NHL had discussed a system with the the Fehr brothers

Quote:
The league is also believed to have verbally raised the possibility of seeing the players’ share in revenue drop incrementally rather than all at once. Theoretically, it could be done at a rate that is matched by an expected increase in revenues — essentially keeping salaries constant over the duration of the agreement while owners take in more profit.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4494896/

Former NHLPA exec director Paul Kelly mentioned a similar system as being the eventual compromise.

CBC expires in 19 days. Both sides lose with a lockout.

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08-26-2012, 11:06 AM
  #568
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Another extension is coming. Jeremy Jacobs Bruins. Tyler Seguin.

Quote:
The plan emphasized prudence. Earlier this summer, Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli was in no rush to extend Tyler Seguin. Chiarelli wanted the next collective bargaining agreement to be in place before re-signing his young forward. Perhaps under the new CBA, the NHL and the Players Association will agree to place restrictions on second contracts. The second deals have long been prickly matters for GMs, who believe inflation has ballooned their costs.

In all likelihood, Chiarelli’s plan will hit the trash.

According to a team source, Seguin probably will sign an extension before there is a labor agreement. The deal would come in the wake of extensions that Taylor Hall and Jeff Skinner, two other rising stars from the 2010 draft, signed this month.
http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/0...KQN/story.html

Bettman wants changes in contracts which means the owners want changes. So Snider gives Hartnell and Simmonds 6 years. Another influential owner will bestow a long term extension to another player with a year left on entry level. The owners must feel their plan of dumping salary arbitration is a non-starter with the Fehr brothers and the 5 year term limit is just a number to get the PA to agree to contract term limits higher than 5 years. Why would Chiarelli change his plan of waiting for the CBA to get the 2nd contract under control and then turn around to give Seguin an extension with the CBA expiring in 19 days and a year left in entry level?

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08-26-2012, 11:17 AM
  #569
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How long a training camp would be needed if the NHL had an NBA-like delay to the start of the season? "Generally players come into training camp in very good shape and we utilize a lot of that time for exhibition games and to evaluate players," Regier said. "We certainly don't need the full camp if there's a delay."
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sa...cle1022846.ece

The NBA had a 16 day training camp with players coming and going. The teams played 2 pre-season games. It took 13 days to ratify the CBA. The union had gone to court. Decertification. They had to re-form the union.

NHL camps open on September 21. The CBA expires on September 15. If they get a deal done between the 15th and 21st. The start of the camp would probably pushed back a few days to get the agreement in writing. Both sides vote.

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08-26-2012, 03:35 PM
  #570
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It wasn't inflation ballooning 2nd contracts. It was the lower ufa age and the prospect of losing young stars. Bettman gladly gave up 31 as the ufa start. He thought a floody market of ufas would lower the price. He always botches the details. Left a huge hole with the aav cap hit too.

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08-26-2012, 04:00 PM
  #571
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I just want hockey.

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08-26-2012, 07:50 PM
  #572
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great point a friend on facebook posted a little earlier..

Does this list mean anything to anyone: Michael Schulman, Jeremy Jacobs, Terry Pegula, N. Murray Edwards, Peter Karmanos Jr., Rocky Wirtz, Stan Kroenke, John P. McConnell, Tom Gaglardi, Mike & Marian Illitch , Patrick LaForge, Cliff Viner, Philip Anschutz & Ed Roski Jr., Craig Leipold, Geoff Molson , Predators Holdings LLC, Jeff Vanderbeek, Charles Wang, James Dolan, Eugene Melnyk, Ed Snider, (City of Phoenix), Mario Lemieux & Ron Burkle, San Jose Sports and Entertainment Enterprises, St. Louis Ownership Group, Jeff Vinik, Larry Tanenbaum, Francesco Aquilini, Ted Leonsis, and Mark Chipman?

Of course not, because it's all Bettman's fault. It's not like he is representing these guys' interests or anything of the sort...

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08-27-2012, 09:19 AM
  #573
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The CBA stuff hasn't been bad-yet. If the fail to reach an agreement by 9/15,the BS will B 2 much. The NFL and NBA lockouts were nastier at the same point so far.

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08-27-2012, 10:08 AM
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH2 View Post
A few things:

-I wonder if the players would concede to a 50-50 split with a re-defined HRR if the owners increased revenue sharing and kept the cap above 60 million.

-Why not make it 4 year ELC and 5 year RFA and in turn, the players keep salary arbitration (can opt once) and if a team chooses to walk away they must pay the player a severance (~half league minimum or less).

-Let teams exchange cash in transactions to help smaller market teams take on cap hits without needing to come up with the full salaried amount.



As an aside: If players are going to Sochi for the Olympics, wouldn't that be a perfect time for the NHL to schedule some games in Europe? Some players will already be over there and a few games the week after the Olympics would be great exposure to European audiences.
Thats the first thing I have read about Olympic Hockey. Is this just a minor part of the negotiations?
And do you think it will happen? It would be a disaster for international hockey if not The Olympics have the beste players.

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08-27-2012, 10:17 AM
  #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
the problem though is that unless you are willing to contract or relocate teams, revenue sharing is likely the only way to try to build up those weak sisters so you don't always have a situation of the playing to the lowest common denominator and having those teams pull down the top teams preventing or slowing further growth

its a completely different animal but most people look at the nfl as the ideal business model for a sport and one of the biggest reasons that they got to where they are is cause wellington mara and other big market owners made the decision to share revenue and help build up the lesser teams instead of burying them. over time that revenue sharing helped increase the value of those 'lesser' teams which in turn increased the value of the league which in turn increased the value of the big market teams as the leagues tv revenue, etc went thru the roof.

the biggest key imo is having some kind of rules in place to try to insure that the revenue sharing $$ is being reinvested into the team to help increase the revenue of that team, not simply stuck into the owners pocket like you get in mlb.
Remove the draft, and let each organisation develop there own players from theyre fist step on skates.
And then,if they wanna move elsewhere,when they have become a star, those big markets club would have to pay hard cash to to let say Columbus, if Columbus manged to develop a superstar.

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