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Old
08-28-2012, 10:41 AM
  #626
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @KatieStrangESPN
Sent: Aug 28, 2012 11:33a

#CBA Meeting lasted about 45 minutes. Don Fehr declined to characterize discussions, but left open possibility for more talks later today

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Sure doesnt sound like much negotiating is going on during these negotiations.

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08-28-2012, 10:43 AM
  #627
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Fehr wouldn't confirm or deny if the NHL made a new offer.

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08-28-2012, 10:44 AM
  #628
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From: @reporterchris
Sent: Aug 28, 2012 11:43a

The NHL says it's not the end of today's negotiating session.

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On Twitter: http://twitter.com/reporterchris/sta...74600960557059

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08-28-2012, 10:51 AM
  #629
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Its just the Fehr brothers and Bettman/Daly today. Fehr doesn't negotiate hard until the last minute or after the deadline expires. MLB had a one day strike in 1985. 1994 strike was a disaster. Fehr won that battle. 2002 CBA was last minute.

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08-28-2012, 11:00 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
NCAA/USHL/BCHL/US HS players are not the only draftees with leverage.

Any draftee has some kind of loophole they can exploit.

Look what Tim Erixon did to the Calgary Flames.

If you are going to send a lynch mob after US student athletes, then you need to do the same for junior and European athletes that take advantage of legal loopholes as well.

Fact of the matter is, unless a player is legally bound by contract that they signed, they are free to do what ever they want.

The NCAA isn't going to allow their student athletes to sign professional contracts and keep their amateur status. And for good reasons.

Junior players are paid. And treated as professional athletes. Not necessarily for the better.

European players are contractually obligated to their European teams.

Why are we targetting players either drafted while in or who are comitted to the NCAA? They're amateur status athletes. They are free to do what they want. A team needs to do their homework before making a draft pick. Thats what scouting and the draft combine are for. Thats what the interviews at the combine are for. Interigation.

A lot of butt hurt going on.

What are you going to do? Force NCAA players draft age up to 21-22?

NCAA will NEVER allow its student athletes to take anything from a professional team. No money. No contracts. No "gifts". No equipment. No endorsements. Nothing.

Unlike junior players, who can sign a contract and not lose eligibility.

If an NCAA player stays all four years, why should he be obligated to sign with his drafting team at the age of 23-24? When everyone else is already going to or had arbitration rights and other loopholes to get more money or force their way to another organization.
the issue isn't the possibility of losing your unsigned draft picks, its losing them to an exception to the norm...

teams have 2 years to sign junior players, if the guy is young enough he re-enters the draft, if he's older he becomes a ufa. i think its 3 years to sign euro picks with same age/draft rules applying...and for college players you have till August 15th after their senior year or they become ufas since they are too old for the draft...

the problems are the exceptions to those rules that let guys become ufas early. that let justin schultz leave after year 3 and become a ufa when under the 'normal' circumstances the ducks should have held his rights until august 15, 2013.

if everyone applies to the same standards then its not a loophole, thats just the rules.

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08-28-2012, 11:11 AM
  #631
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If the NHL did present new HRR, the Fehrs leaving to talk with constituents would be a good sign, no? They'll come back with their idea of HRR, maybe formulate an agreement and move on to other issues.

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08-28-2012, 11:37 AM
  #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @michaelgrange
Sent: Aug 28, 2012 11:37a

If I had to guess -- and I emphasize guess -- #NHL through some new HRR numbers at #NHLPA and now Fehr needs to talk it over with players

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On Twitter: http://twitter.com/michaelgrange/sta...73214680190976
Yeah I think this kind of "needs to talk it over" stuff is not necessarily a bad sign. Fehr has to make sure anything he agrees to is something that the players will also agree to, so if the league presents some new stuff he needs to talk to the players about it, not just sit there and hammer out a deal that the players might reject once they see it.

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08-28-2012, 11:40 AM
  #633
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How did the NHL "through" numbers at the NHLPA?

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Old
08-28-2012, 11:43 AM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH2 View Post
If the NHL did present new HRR, the Fehrs leaving to talk with constituents would be a good sign, no? They'll come back with their idea of HRR, maybe formulate an agreement and move on to other issues.
They are 18 days from a lockout, and they cant even agree on how to calculate the revenue that they'll eventually be arguing over.

I dont think thats a good sign.

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08-28-2012, 12:46 PM
  #635
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I'm not holding my breath that they're gonna figure this out before the deadline they've imposed. IMO we're looking at a 48 game schedule once the NHLPA finally caves in.

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Old
08-28-2012, 12:48 PM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
They are 18 days from a lockout, and they cant even agree on how to calculate the revenue that they'll eventually be arguing over.

I dont think thats a good sign.
They have agreed on which type of calculator they should use though, so that's positive.

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08-28-2012, 12:56 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
They have agreed on which type of calculator they should use though, so that's positive.
Yeah and now they're arguing over who should pay for the calculator.

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08-28-2012, 01:45 PM
  #638
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Quote:
Told the NHL "slightly" tweaked it's revenue sharing offer by a minimal percentage this morning. Smoke & mirrors more than anything else.
https://twitter.com/SNLouisJean/stat...20002665603073

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08-28-2012, 01:56 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
They have agreed on which type of calculator they should use though, so that's positive.
And they are to be placed on the desk in front of each seat before each season begins, and the following numbers typed in: 80085

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Old
08-28-2012, 02:28 PM
  #640
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“@tpanotchCSN: Almost 4 hrs between sessions. NHL must have given the union something worth discussing. Which is everyone's hope”

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08-28-2012, 02:29 PM
  #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassShootScore View Post
“@tpanotchCSN: Almost 4 hrs between sessions. NHL must have given the union something worth discussing. Which is everyone's hope”
Either that or they are trying to think of a witty comeback.

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08-28-2012, 02:39 PM
  #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassShootScore View Post
“@tpanotchCSN: Almost 4 hrs between sessions. NHL must have given the union something worth discussing. Which is everyone's hope”
So much hope, so little getting done.

People want to see hockey so bad that its clouding their judgment. Anytime the sides are not talking, its bad news.

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Old
08-28-2012, 03:25 PM
  #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So much hope, so little getting done.

People want to see hockey so bad that its clouding their judgment. Anytime the sides are not talking, its bad news.
I'm not hopeful that this will get resolved before the deadline, but I do think that you are also reading too much into the tea leaves. The CBA has hundreds of pages of details that have to be exact--that means that preparing a response even to the smallest detail is going to take time. There has been no breakdown of talks--both sides are meeting and exchanging information. I would expect that the preparation on both sides takes up more hours in a day than the actual meeting.

If they start talking through the media rather than having face to face meetingss several times a week (no matter how short), then you can count me on the doom and gloom wagon.

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Old
08-28-2012, 03:27 PM
  #644
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Now, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're making progress, but folks should really stop interpreting the fact that they aren't having marathon face to face sessions as bad news. This is how corporate negotiations usually work. The direct interface is the least important part - at least until you're like 95% done with the deal.

One side crafts a proposal. The negotiating team from that side presents it to the other side, which asks questions. The negotiating team from the other side then goes back to its office (or hangs up the phone in most cases), digests the proposal with the much larger group and has most of its debating internally on how to go back. They then mark up the first proposal (or draft their own version in the early stages) and then present it to the other side. Generally each of these markups will have an "okay, I can give you A, D and half of F, but I need B, C and E."

Wash, rinse, repeat 5-10 times, hopefully with the draft proposals getting closer and closer to each other until you get to something you can both agree on. The process gets longer and less efficient the more people you actually have in the meetings and the longer they take at the beginning.

It's only when you get down to the very end and you have a few odds and ends or 1-2 tricky points where you sometimes say "ok, let's lock ourselves in the conference room until we work this out."

Again, I have no special insight into the meetings, but I the best thing about the current situation is that they have Daly and Bettman meeting 2-on-2 with the Fehr brothers. If all the owners and 3 dozen players were in the room for 8 hours a day, it'd be a **** show - nothing would get done and there'd be a real risk of having it all break down.

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Old
08-28-2012, 03:31 PM
  #645
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“@ChrisBottaNHL: Gary Bettman calls NHL's counter-proposal to NHLPA "significant, with meaningful movement."”

“@RenLavoieRDS: Gary Bettman: "we are not far apart on the revenue sharing."”

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08-28-2012, 03:31 PM
  #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Now, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're making progress, but folks should really stop interpreting the fact that they aren't having marathon face to face sessions as bad news. This is how corporate negotiations usually work. The direct interface is the least important part - at least until you're like 95% done with the deal.

One side crafts a proposal. The negotiating team from that side presents it to the other side, which asks questions. The negotiating team from the other side then goes back to its office (or hangs up the phone in most cases), digests the proposal with the much larger group and has most of its debating internally on how to go back. They then mark up the first proposal (or draft their own version in the early stages) and then present it to the other side. Generally each of these markups will have an "okay, I can give you A, D and half of F, but I need B, C and E."

Wash, rinse, repeat 5-10 times, hopefully with the draft proposals getting closer and closer to each other until you get to something you can both agree on. The process gets longer and less efficient the more people you actually have in the meetings and the longer they take at the beginning.

It's only when you get down to the very end and you have a few odds and ends or 1-2 tricky points where you sometimes say "ok, let's lock ourselves in the conference room until we work this out."

Again, I have no special insight into the meetings, but I the best thing about the current situation is that they have Daly and Bettman meeting 2-on-2 with the Fehr brothers. If all the owners and 3 dozen players were in the room for 8 hours a day, it'd be a **** show - nothing would get done and there'd be a real risk of having it all break down.
Not to mention so much has changed tech wise, Blackberrys, Skype, Email, Texts...You hardly need to physically been in a room with each other to have a conversation.

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08-28-2012, 03:33 PM
  #647
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
“@ChrisBottaNHL: Gary Bettman calls NHL's counter-proposal to NHLPA "significant, with meaningful movement."”

“@RenLavoieRDS: Gary Bettman: "we are not far apart on the revenue sharing."”
Wow, how quickly things change.

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08-28-2012, 03:37 PM
  #648
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Think Botta just nailed what we should all be thinking today with his last tweet...

Quote:
Bottom line today: NHL really likes its proposal. NHLPA will respond tomorrow. If NHLPA rejects large parts of it, could be a while.
https://twitter.com/ChrisBottaNHL/st...47633238790145

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08-28-2012, 03:37 PM
  #649
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Quote:
Bettman says revenue sharing "will not break or break this deal" and sides are close enough on that issue. Big issue is contracts.
https://twitter.com/ChrisBottaNHL/st...46771812614144

Contracts?

Contracts?

The players will need to accept some change. Term limits. No front loading.

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08-28-2012, 03:38 PM
  #650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
“@ChrisBottaNHL: Gary Bettman calls NHL's counter-proposal to NHLPA "significant, with meaningful movement."”

“@RenLavoieRDS: Gary Bettman: "we are not far apart on the revenue sharing."”
I want to hear what the side receiving the proposal has to say--of course Bettman is going to like the proposal he presented! Plus, revenue sharing is part of the equation and a less important one at that, if the sides can't even agree on the defintion of revenue.

But, at least they are talking directly to one another.

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