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08-30-2012, 12:08 PM
  #801
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
whatever. just because bad money decisions were made in the past doesn't mean we should forgo the right to ever make smart big money decisions now and in the future. I would imagine then that you're opposed to the acquisitions of Nash, Richards, Gaborik?

Because you know that we sure can't draft talent like this? you know this right? Again, i gave you credit for pointing out the talent from within, but apparently you don't see any benefit to other methods of acquiring talent. Even though the team you follow does...
Two points:

1. Im glad the Rangers cant go above and beyond a certain limit of cash. They've invested that money back into the system, management, scouting, etc, and its paid dividends. For all the good Sather has done over the last couple of years, I still dont trust him with an endless piggy bank. Laziness and bad habits can re-surface very quickly.

2. The Rangers have been building this team as they should. The defense is almost entirely homegrown, including the top 4, as are most of the supporting 2nd/3rd line forwards. We've imported the top 3 forwards, because those types of talents aren't likely to come through the draft. Thats a sound strategy, and its led to a complete team.

The complaining that the Rangers aren't going to be able to bring in that top level talent with their infinite resources is just a bunch of conjecture at this point. As of right now, Richards, Nash, and Gaborik are on the roster in a capped league. A little more negotiating, and a small bump to the proposed cap numbers, and it becomes more likely we can keep all 3.

This is the type of complaining that can only come from a Ranger fan or one of the other top 5 revenue generators in this league. Love him or despise him, you do realize that Bettman needs to go to bat for ALL the teams, right?

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08-30-2012, 01:08 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Two points:

1. Im glad the Rangers cant go above and beyond a certain limit of cash. They've invested that money back into the system, management, scouting, etc, and its paid dividends. For all the good Sather has done over the last couple of years, I still dont trust him with an endless piggy bank. Laziness and bad habits can re-surface very quickly.

2. The Rangers have been building this team as they should. The defense is almost entirely homegrown, including the top 4, as are most of the supporting 2nd/3rd line forwards. We've imported the top 3 forwards, because those types of talents aren't likely to come through the draft. Thats a sound strategy, and its led to a complete team.

The complaining that the Rangers aren't going to be able to bring in that top level talent with their infinite resources is just a bunch of conjecture at this point. As of right now, Richards, Nash, and Gaborik are on the roster in a capped league. A little more negotiating, and a small bump to the proposed cap numbers, and it becomes more likely we can keep all 3.

This is the type of complaining that can only come from a Ranger fan or one of the other top 5 revenue generators in this league. Love him or despise him, you do realize that Bettman needs to go to bat for ALL the teams, right?
Nothing I have written should lead you to believe I want Sather or any NYR GM to have an “endless piggybank”. In no way shape or form am I advocating a departure from sound management, scouting, drafting, etc. in exchange for throwing gobs of money at every potential star free agent like the 98’-04’ years.

No matter what the cap is, the deal still has to make sense. Hypothetically speaking if the cap were $70 next season, and Getzlaf or Perry makes to FA I think we should be all over it! Why shouldn’t we?



2. I applaud and embrace this strategy. As of right now we have all of our imported top forwards. I want a Cap instituted that allows us to keep them along with the players we’ve developed. It’s my hope that they’ll arrive at a fair amount. I understand that Bettman is an advocate for every team, but that shouldn’t mean that we should suffer because “experimental franchises” and their fringe fanbases can’t support them.

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08-30-2012, 01:11 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Rick Nashty View Post
So how would they roll back cap hits without adjusting contract values? Just curious if anyone had any idea.
That's incredibly easy to do. It's just changing the accounting. It isn't like cap hits now are the exact salary a player makes. So you can just decide to calculate cap hits at 80% of salary if you wanted.

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08-30-2012, 01:20 PM
  #804
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That's incredibly easy to do. It's just changing the accounting. It isn't like cap hits now are the exact salary a player makes. So you can just decide to calculate cap hits at 80% of salary if you wanted.
It seems easy when viewed through the prism of the Rangers, or other teams that have players with high cap hits.

What about teams like the Islanders that have trouble reaching the cap floor without the cap hits being slashed?

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08-30-2012, 01:23 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
It seems easy when viewed through the prism of the Rangers, or other teams that have players with high cap hits.

What about teams like the Islanders that have trouble reaching the cap floor without the cap hits being slashed?
The floor would be lowered too. It's not a short term fix. It's an adjustment of the baseline for future contracts. It will help teams afford the floor in the future.

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08-30-2012, 01:58 PM
  #806
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How about the Islanders spending some more money? That's an answer. They will get revenue sharing dollars. They don't right now but the PA has proposed dumping the 2.5M TV homes clause. Even the floor should be changed. The buyouts from this CBA shouldn't count in the new CBA. The money is still owed to the player but its not a cap hit to reach the floor. No more dummy contracts. No more performance bonuses which are unreachable. Salary/cash spent. No more dummy trades for players not playing in the league.

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08-30-2012, 02:02 PM
  #807
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Said one late Wednesday night, “What is happening now is meaningless. A lockout is inevitable. Negotiations begin in October.”

Two other well-known agents agreed with that assessment.
http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...edium=referral

Quote:
Rookie preseason games and the beginning of training camp is already very much in danger as it appears both sides will blow past the Sept. 15 date when the current CBA expires. At that point the NHL owners will officially lock out the players and the NHL regular season will probably start cancelling games if both sides don’t have something hammered out by Sept. 25 – a date that would give teams a 10-14 day training camp to get ready for the NHL schedule.
http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...3&feedID=10428

Should be fun.

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08-30-2012, 02:03 PM
  #808
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NHLPA presently working on counter proposal and will be reviewing NHL 2011/2012 team numbers that they received yesterday afternoon.
https://twitter.com/aaronward_nhl/st...29284105150464

Meeting tomorrow.

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08-30-2012, 02:04 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
How about the Islanders spending some more money? That's an answer. They will get revenue sharing dollars. They don't right now but the PA has proposed dumping the 2.5M TV homes clause. Even the floor should be changed. The buyouts from this CBA shouldn't count in the new CBA. The money is still owed to the player but its not a cap hit to reach the floor. No more dummy contracts. No more performance bonuses which are unreachable. Salary/cash spent. No more dummy trades for players not playing in the league.
I agree in theory. But the reality of the situation is the Islanders are bleeding money because of years and years of ineptitude from the on ice product up through management.

When you have 7-8 thousand people in the building every night, and you're losing millions each year, "spend more money" isnt what most management teams are going to do, no matter how stupid they are.

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08-30-2012, 02:10 PM
  #810
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In the last proposal by the owners what was the contract lengths?

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08-30-2012, 02:34 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree in theory. But the reality of the situation is the Islanders are bleeding money because of years and years of ineptitude from the on ice product up through management.

When you have 7-8 thousand people in the building every night, and you're losing millions each year, "spend more money" isnt what most management teams are going to do, no matter how stupid they are.
Unless they're forced to. We aren't talking about an organization who is in danger of missing payroll. If
Wang has a problem with the standards of being in the league and can't hire management team to increase attendance, then he should give up and sell.

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08-30-2012, 02:54 PM
  #812
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I'm very curious to see how they are going to figure the cap situation.

A lot of teams will not be cap compliant if the league gets its way.

With most of the Rangers top core players up for new contracts within the next three seasons, including Del Zotto this summer, they will need to cut salary somewhere. Gaborik's 7+ million is probably where they'll start when that time comes. Combine age with inability to stay healthy and a soon expiring contract.

But really, how are so many teams going to manuver to be cap compliant.

I find it interesting that the owners are unhappy with player contracts, but they are the ones approving all the retirement contracts like Kovalchuk, Parise, Suter...

Im not going to comment much on this stuff because im not a cap/cba guru like RangerBoy.

Still incredibly frustrating from a fan standpoint. Particularly when your team is ready to legitimately make a run at a championship.

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08-30-2012, 03:12 PM
  #813
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Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

#CBA NHLPA expected to submit second proposal Friday -- ESPN

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08-30-2012, 03:19 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree in theory. But the reality of the situation is the Islanders are bleeding money because of years and years of ineptitude from the on ice product up through management.

When you have 7-8 thousand people in the building every night, and you're losing millions each year, "spend more money" isnt what most management teams are going to do, no matter how stupid they are.
Florida *****ed and moaned las offseason about this very thing. After doing that and then being foced to spend money on players they went from doormat to a playoff team in one season...funny how that works.

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Old
08-30-2012, 03:20 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I'm very curious to see how they are going to figure the cap situation.

A lot of teams will not be cap compliant if the league gets its way.

With most of the Rangers top core players up for new contracts within the next three seasons, including Del Zotto this summer, they will need to cut salary somewhere. Gaborik's 7+ million is probably where they'll start when that time comes. Combine age with inability to stay healthy and a soon expiring contract.

But really, how are so many teams going to manuver to be cap compliant.

I find it interesting that the owners are unhappy with player contracts, but they are the ones approving all the retirement contracts like Kovalchuk, Parise, Suter...

Im not going to comment much on this stuff because im not a cap/cba guru like RangerBoy.

Still incredibly frustrating from a fan standpoint. Particularly when your team is ready to legitimately make a run at a championship.
This.

And dare I say it...but anyone want to take a guess what pick our 1st rounder to the Blue Jackets will become if there is no season? Of course we got screwed last time around in 2005 (although we were able to trade up from 16 to land Staal)...talk about adding insult to injury if we lose what should be a great season and then land the #1 pick in Bettman's latest lottery edition.

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08-30-2012, 03:22 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

#CBA NHLPA expected to submit second proposal Friday -- ESPN
Cue Fehr:

"This proposal made significant changes and concessions."

Cue Bettman:

"No. No, it didn't"

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Old
08-30-2012, 03:31 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

#CBA NHLPA expected to submit second proposal Friday -- ESPN
and the NHL intends to look at it first thing after the long weekend...

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08-30-2012, 03:40 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That's incredibly easy to do. It's just changing the accounting. It isn't like cap hits now are the exact salary a player makes. So you can just decide to calculate cap hits at 80% of salary if you wanted.
Makes sense, I wasn't entirely sure the plan but if they did that would it be all players or just a certain few per team. Would be best suited for Nash, Gaborik, Richards, and Lundqvist. If you could do that then you'd have quite a bit more breathing room.

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08-30-2012, 03:41 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
and the NHL intends to look at it first thing after the long weekend...
I wont be optimistic until the two parties get in a room and start negotiating for hours on end. Theres a ton of work to be done, a ton of things to be settled.

This meeting for 45 minutes on HRR breakdown/cap #'s, and then running to your constituency to talk it over is getting tiresome as September approaches.

What about rollbacks (cap hit or salary)? What about term limits to contracts? What about revenue sharing/luxury taxes?

I know what they're discussing now is the chief economic issue, but it isnt exactly like those other things are going to just easily fall into place.

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08-30-2012, 07:05 PM
  #820
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Daly indicated the NHL is willing to met with Fehr this weekend if they feel the proposal is worth discussing.

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08-30-2012, 07:42 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I wont be optimistic until the two parties get in a room and start negotiating for hours on end. Theres a ton of work to be done, a ton of things to be settled.

This meeting for 45 minutes on HRR breakdown/cap #'s, and then running to your constituency to talk it over is getting tiresome as September.
I don't know. I think if they really felt the need to be negotiating that much they would be. I don't think many of the other issues have a chance to be as contentious as the revenue share and structure do. They want that "big rock" out of the way before the even begin dealing in the "pebbles and sand," to use some corporate jargon.

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08-30-2012, 08:03 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
This.

And dare I say it...but anyone want to take a guess what pick our 1st rounder to the Blue Jackets will become if there is no season? Of course we got screwed last time around in 2005 (although we were able to trade up from 16 to land Staal)...talk about adding insult to injury if we lose what should be a great season and then land the #1 pick in Bettman's latest lottery edition.
oh god please no

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08-30-2012, 08:25 PM
  #823
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$6 mil/year xtensions for Taylor hall and Jordan Eberle A full year before they finish their elc. Thank god we are getting a lockout to protect small market teams like the oilers from this stuff

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08-30-2012, 10:37 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
$6 mil/year xtensions for Taylor hall and Jordan Eberle A full year before they finish their elc. Thank god we are getting a lockout to protect small market teams like the oilers from this stuff
that would be great if the oilers were still a small market team. the canadian dollar has moved them to the middle of the pack

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Old
08-31-2012, 03:32 AM
  #825
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
$6 mil/year xtensions for Taylor hall and Jordan Eberle A full year before they finish their elc. Thank god we are getting a lockout to protect small market teams like the oilers from this stuff
It's comical. Owners you want cost control? How about uhhh the second contract?

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